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Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

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22 Dec 2013 22:56 #211446 by Markeyz

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  • Gary Vogt
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23 Dec 2013 08:08 #211447 by Gary Vogt

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25 Jan 2014 09:28 #219919 by Gary Vogt

More business as usual:  www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/12/13/211577/sk...ts-park-service.html


Here's a comment by the ski-touring concession applicant in my previous link:

"I’m writing in hopes that common sense is used by NPS’s concessions division...  I run a small guide company, Eco Tour Adventures, that operates in Grand Teton National Park and my case may provide a vivid example of why NPS has had some of its problems with its concession operations.

...NPS recently appointed a new head of its Commercial Services division, Ben Erichsen. NPS’s Commercial Service’s division is the part of NPS that handles its concession operations. I assume that Mr. Erichsen has been appointed in part to address and correct NPS’s notorious historical problem of not being able to issue timely Prospectuses under the 1998 Concessions Act, and that NPS and Mr. Erichsen are currently evaluating why NPS has had this difficulty and how it can be more efficient going forward under his direction. NPS often complains of this chronic problem in its annual reports to the Concessions Management Advisory Board.

In my case, NPS put in a tremendous amount of work in preparing and issuing a Prospectus and then completing an extensive evaluation. This lengthy process resulted in NPS finding that my proposals were the best ones it received. Yet, NPS appears to be poised to throw all that work (and expense) and start over. After completing its review of all the proposals in response to its Prospectus, NPS told me that my proposals were definitely the best ones it received, but that, unfortunately, NPS was required under the law to give its incumbent concessioners the chance to match all of Eco Tour’s better terms. However, I told NPS that the law did not require them to do this and, when NPS continued to insist that the law did require this outcome, I brought the matter before a federal judge who formally ruled that NPS should not give the contracts to the incumbents instead of us.

Yet, despite this ruling and clarification of the law, incredibly, rather than simply award the contracts to the best offeror, me, NPS apparently is instead going to throw out all this work and prepare and issue an entirely new Prospectus. Especially given NPS’s severe budget reductions and high maintenance backlog, which NPS frequently points out when it complains of Congress giving it insufficient funds to do its job, one is only left to wonder why NPS would ever make a decision to unnecessarily waste government money by throwing out its perfectly good process and redoing an existing Prospectus and evaluation? I have not received any explanation from NPS as to why it would do this..."


www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2014/01/co...ark-concessions24457

Considering all the concession monkey-business at Rainier through the years, it's starting to look like integrity is all too often the inverse of pay grade in the top-heavy NPS:

bangordailynews.com/2014/01/20/news/hanc...st-in-federal-court/

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  • elbe2013
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09 Feb 2014 10:36 #220206 by elbe2013
Unbelievable (if you are new to the issue)!!

MRNP tweets high avy danger today, thus keeping the road closed, when in fact the NWAC states moderate to considerable-
www.nwac.us/avalanche-forecast/current/c...almie-to-white-pass/

With the upcoming weather systems coming in I don't expect the road to be open at all this week…how much longer do we tolerate this? Please tell me what I can do to create awareness/uproar about this blatant mismanagement...

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09 Feb 2014 10:59 #220208 by elbe2013
Six NPS vehicles + a plow waiting for the avy danger to subside...
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  • Gary Vogt
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09 Feb 2014 12:16 - 09 Feb 2014 12:21 #220212 by Gary Vogt


MRNP tweets high avy danger today, thus keeping the road closed, when in fact the NWAC states moderate to considerable-
www.nwac.us/avalanche-forecast/current/c...almie-to-white-pass/


MRNP management seems so inconsistent about avalanche hazard, that it often seems like a convenient excuse, if not outright ignorance. 

For just one example, the normally windward 'Narada Face' just above the falls is signed with a recommended alternate route.  Although avalanches certainly occur here occasionaly, the obvious open area is mostly the result of decades of road building and quarrying.  There have been injury falls traversing this icy slope, but never an avalanche injury to my knowledge, unlike the recommended marked bypass, where a showshoer was buried and killed in the 70's.

For the past couple winters, the Pisten-Bully has been used to pack the start of the road to Fourth Crossing and the beginning of the trail to Edith Basin.  I was told this was to provide walking opportunities for visitors.  So we have backcountry travelers warned away from one slope for questionable reasons, while totally unprepared pilgrims are led to the top of the real normally-lee avalanche slopes closest to Paradise.   ???

If current management had ever seen avy debris from Cushman Crest piled 30 feet deep at that picturesque and popular icicle cascade at Christine Falls, they might not plow those congested  turnouts that are also a pedestrian accident waiting to happen.

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  • altasnob
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09 Feb 2014 14:00 #220215 by altasnob
I was one of those unfortunate souls that were turned away at the Longmire gate today. They said it was because of avy danger. Even though I don't agree with that, I can live with the fact that their assessment is different than mine. But what chaps my hide, is the fact that at 7 am this morning, they twittered the following:

"Due to heavy snowfall overnight, the opening of the gate at Longmire will be delayed. All vehicles are required to carry tire chains. -tks"

The word "delayed" implies that the road would be open today. It wasn't until 10 am, and at the Nisqually gate, that they changed their mind to an all day closure. The twitter post, coupled with the Paradise parking lot cam showing the lot being plowed, convinced me to forgo the masses at Crystal and try for the Tatoosh. I guess I'll be joining the masses at Crystal next time.

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09 Feb 2014 18:04 #220226 by Robie

I was one of those unfortunate souls that were turned away at the Longmire gate today. They said it was because of avy danger. Even though I don't agree with that, I can live with the fact that their assessment is different than mine. But what chaps my hide, is the fact that at 7 am this morning, they twittered the following:

"Due to heavy snowfall overnight, the opening of the gate at Longmire will be delayed. All vehicles are required to carry tire chains. -tks"

The word "delayed" implies that the road would be open today. It wasn't until 10 am, and at the Nisqually gate, that they changed their mind to an all day closure. The twitter post, coupled with the Paradise parking lot cam showing the lot being plowed, convinced me to forgo the masses at Crystal and try for the Tatoosh. I guess I'll be joining the masses at Crystal next time.


NPS mission accomplished !

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11 Feb 2014 15:34 #220292 by davidG
free MRNP entrance weekend coming up.  heavy snow forecast.  bets?

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  • on_board
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12 Feb 2014 06:36 #220311 by on_board
So I only go up there about once every two years and have not noticed whether this is a new trend, or merely a consistently annoying bureaucratic "feature" that MRNP offers.

I have read some of this discussion and it suggests that this is not actually related to the sequester?

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  • CascadeClimber
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12 Feb 2014 08:02 #220315 by CascadeClimber
Replied by CascadeClimber on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

I have read some of this discussion and it suggests that this is not actually related to the sequester?


My experience is that the explanation/story/narrative provided by MORA management changes depending on the audience. Last fall some people were directly told the mid-week closures were due to budget issues while I personally talked to park staff who insisted it was a staffing issue.

When I directly inquired with the superintendent, he said it was a staffing issue that was caused by a budget issue. Something to the effect of, 'due to anticipated budget issues I decided to not fill positions, which resulted in a staffing shortage.' Clever.

These inconsistencies are the reason I've declined all their invitations to "come down and talk"; I want the conversation in a reproducible form.

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  • Gary Vogt
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03 Mar 2014 09:42 #220952 by Gary Vogt
2013 saw NPS scores drop sharply to the lowest in the ten years this survey of federal employees' job satisfaction has been published.  The National Park Service now ranks 200th overall among the 300 federal agencies surveyed.  All scores in 'Leadership' categories are in about the bottom sixth, and 'Work-Life Balance' is a stunning 293rd out of 300.

www.bestplacestowork.org/BPTW/rankings/detail/IN10

No doubt their plummeting scores on these surveys are because bad management often has no consequences in the NPS:

www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2013/03/ma...ence-boys-death22957

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05 Mar 2014 10:55 #221044 by CascadeClimber
Replied by CascadeClimber on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
Today, March 5, the road from Longmire to Paradise is closed to the public. And what appears to be a guide service van and trailer is unloading in the parking lot.

Ugh.

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  • Amar Andalkar
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05 Mar 2014 18:01 #221058 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

Today, March 5, the road from Longmire to Paradise is closed to the public. And what appears to be a guide service van and trailer is unloading in the parking lot.

Ugh.


Yeah, it totally pisses me off too when guided groups have access to Paradise while the road is closed to the public -- even on a miserable rainy day like today when I'd never want to be up there. After reading your post, I decided to check my saved webcam images and see WTF was going on.

But -- in this case, I think you might be mistaken that they were "unloading in the parking lot" -- they appear to be loading only. The webcam clearly shows the guide service van and trailer covered with about 1-2 ft of snow, which indicates that it had been parked up at Paradise for several days (there has been no measurable snowfall in at least 10 days since February 23 at Longmire or below, while Paradise got about 30" the past 4 days). The group arrives in the parking lot, someone goes and gets the guide service van and trailer, and the group loads up. After it departs, there is a large amount of snow from the roof of the vehicle left behind in the parking lot.

So in this case, it appears that they had no more access than any member of the public would have if they had camped overnight for several days with their vehicle parked at Paradise, then returned to their vehicle and left on a day that the road was closed to the public. At least, that's what the webcam images below appear to indicate, which would make today's event a total non-issue. I realize that guided groups still do appear to have access recently sometimes when the road is closed (despite the MRNP superintendent's assurances to the contrary), but this does not appear to be an example of that.

Images at 10 minute intervals from 10:40 to 11:10 AM, March 5:
[size=small](click any image for full-size 1920x1080 HD version)[/size]

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05 Mar 2014 20:20 #221063 by CascadeClimber
Replied by CascadeClimber on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
Going up or down doesn't matter. Here's exactly what Randy told me:

"The answer to your second question is, no, access to Paradise will not be available to the park's guide services when the road is otherwise closed to public vehicle access."

He didn't say they can drive down but not up. He said 'no access'.

A thing I've noticed with the current staff down there is that they have a strong tendency to tell people what they want to hear (at times telling different people conflicting stories), and then they go do whatever they want. *This* is precisely why I've declined all their "Come on down and let's have a chat" offers- my communication with them is all in writing.

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  • Amar Andalkar
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05 Mar 2014 21:33 #221068 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

Going up or down doesn't matter. Here's exactly what Randy told me:

"The answer to your second question is, no, access to Paradise will not be available to the park's guide services when the road is otherwise closed to public vehicle access."

He didn't say they can drive down but not up. He said 'no access'.


No, I think you missed my point completely. Going down is the key. Everyone (including you, me, or the guide services) is able to leave Paradise and drive down on days when the road is unexpectedly closed by weather or staffing or whatever (road conditions permitting of course, i.e. unless impossible due to deep unplowed snow). As long as they are already parked up there first.

If you had gotten down to Paradise today from a multiday summit attempt, would you sit and wait beside the parking lot for days until the road was open to the public, or just get in your car and drive down? (And how would you even know that the road was closed to the public, there's no easy way to tell when you come down to Paradise to an empty lot on a miserable rainy day.) What should the guided group (or any private party camped up there the last few days) do after they get back down to the parking lot today, sit and wait for days until the road is open to the public? Of course not. People should get their vehicles and drive down if conditions are safe enough in their judgement. Or do you think the guided groups should be stuck up there because of what Randy said, even though you and other private parties are free to drive down?

I agree with you that guided groups should have no access to Paradise when the road is closed to the public, but if they are accessing Paradise by walking down to it from where they have camped, then allowing them to get in their vehicles and leave seems entirely reasonable.

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  • flowing alpy
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06 Mar 2014 06:29 #221069 by flowing alpy
Replied by flowing alpy on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
better be able to get out.
b

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17 Mar 2014 12:13 #221359 by andybrnr
And after a lovely foot of right side up snow... that's right, no gate opening. "Due to heavy snow, avalanche, and minimal staffing." NWAC says considerable across the entire WA/OR cascades; I guess NPS knows better...

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  • elbe2013
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17 Mar 2014 12:40 #221360 by elbe2013
It's a joke…but no one is laughing….
Here is real-time right now…
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17 Mar 2014 12:45 #221361 by andybrnr
By minimal staffing, do they mean that all the staff went up to take a powder day? WTF.

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  • Andrew Carey
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17 Mar 2014 13:18 - 17 Mar 2014 13:23 #221362 by Andrew Carey
Replied by Andrew Carey on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

By minimal staffing, do they mean that all the staff went up to take a powder day? WTF.


Seriously, I am begining to bellieve it means "FU, we haven't got the budget we want for everything we want and beyond that we haven't gotten our pay raises, nevermind our promised pay parity, and we are seeing our benefits being eroded."  As Vogtski pointed out a while back, morale is very low in the NPS.  I think they are playing a dangerous game.  Once upon a time, when an agency cried "Wolf" at the door (inadequate budget), the public demanded adequate budgets; today, no matter what the reality is, the pulbic, overall, is liable to think negative thoughts of waste, fraud, abuse, corruption, laziness, incompetence, etc. and be cheered along by the Republican party.

FWIW, I do think federal employees have been abused. Based on my conversations with park employees, I also think that MRNP does have the budget to keep the road open, except during very unusual events/dangerous times, if the top managers would make that a priority. But many others things take priority, especially an overly cautious approach to safety (public and employee); note I said overly cautious; I am a big believer in safety and I think safety is more readily obtained (at least for the rational person potentially at risk) than the managers believe; I don't believe access should be dumbed down to protect the dumbest or least rational; let Darwinian selective pressures do that.

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17 Mar 2014 13:39 #221363 by Jonn-E
Safety Third

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17 Mar 2014 19:55 #221370 by Scole
Foot of fresh snow? Where? Every building visible in either Paradise cam this morning (and the picture in this thread from hours later) shows only a faint dusting on the roofs.

It is a joke.

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  • Andrew Carey
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18 Mar 2014 11:04 #221380 by Andrew Carey
Replied by Andrew Carey on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
Real time: the road to Paradise will remain closed today. [no further information, no reason given].  The Official Mt. Rainier Visitor site on the MRNP twitter shows the beautiful picture and invites visitors to come.

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18 Mar 2014 11:16 #221381 by JPH
Sunburns......they don't want to risk people getting sunburns.....those things hurt.

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18 Mar 2014 11:51 #221382 by Scole
The Iraqi Minister of Information just tweeted-

"@MountRainierNPS: The gate to Paradise at Longmire is not open today due to a shortage in staffing required to ensure public safety. Longmire is open. –pw"

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  • Gary Vogt
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18 Mar 2014 12:28 #221383 by Gary Vogt
Perhaps the 'staffing shortage' is because they're releasing fishers? www.nps.gov/mora/parknews/fisher-reintroduction.htm

Or just updating the late-gater list to be ready for today's online chat about fisher reintroduction:   
www.facebook.com/events/1480158168871252/

By minimal staffing, do they mean that all the staff went up to take a powder day? WTF.

It seems pretty clear from the collective nivalphobia of the past few winters that most of the 160 MRNP year-round staff have never skied, and most of those who have aren't skilled in deep snow or tree skiing.  It would certainly give new dimension to the phrase 'powder pig' in the unlikely event it happens.    ::)


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  • Andrew Carey
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18 Mar 2014 12:43 #221384 by Andrew Carey
Replied by Andrew Carey on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
This latest, most egregious disregard for public access and even informing the public in a timely manner closely follows Sally Jewels visit to MRNP; it would seem that she gave an imprimatur for the excuse of "closed because of insufficient staffing to ensure public safety;" maybe she's hoping to institute some energy exploration at Mt. Rainier with her old colleagues from Mobil Oil and Rainier Bank ...

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18 Mar 2014 13:56 #221386 by Scole
And now you can add Winter Weather ADVISORIES to the list of NPS excuses-

@MountRainierNPS: Heads up -- Winter weather advisory in effect for Wed & Wed night -- The gate to Paradise will not open tomorrow. -pw

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18 Mar 2014 15:19 #221388 by Andrew Carey
Replied by Andrew Carey on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

And now you can add Winter Weather ADVISORIES to the list of NPS excuses-

@MountRainierNPS: Heads up -- Winter weather advisory in effect for Wed & Wed night -- The gate to Paradise will not open tomorrow. -pw


Quite an improvement, letting the public know the day before. Don't count on Thursday.

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