Slides at Paradise

NWAC report

A climber is missing after triggering a slide and being caught in Edith Basin above Paradise on Mt Rainer Tuesday. An early morning snowpit Wednesday in the area revealed the weak layer at the crust when failure occurred about 4 feet down on the crust with compression test 5 and Rutschblock 4.



seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/344152_rainier.html


PARADISE, Wash. -- Rescue personnel are searching an area on Mount Rainier for a man swept away by an avalanche.

Mount Rainier National Park spokesman Kevin Bacher said two men were on a snowshoe trip Monday when they were forced to turn back near the tree line due to heavy snow and high wind.

"On their way back down, one of the individuals trigged a snow avalanche and was swept down the slope," Bacher said.

The other man searched for several hours before hiking back out to report the incident to park officials.

At daybreak on Tuesday, 12 searchers and two avalanche dogs set out to look for the missing man, but winds are very strong and Bacher said the avalanche danger is higher today than it was on Monday.

"The conditions are pretty poor up at Paradise at the moment," he said. "That's going to be a concern for our searchers and we will be proceeding pretty cautiously."

The missing man is from the Lynnwood area, but his name has not been released.

Terrible news

NWAC report

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/344152_rainier.html

Very sorry to hear that. I would call this an unusually dangerous period. One where backcountry skiers and even off-piste skiers in previously unbroken snow need to ask whether the risk can be mitigated or accurately evaluated on steep slopes. With the layering the slides could release on lower than typical angles and can easily be triggered 4 or 5 feet ddp in certain situations.

Lynnwood-area man disappears in avalanche on Rainier
By Christina Siderius

Seattle Times staff reporter

Search crews are looking for a Lynnwood-area man who may have been buried in an avalanche on Mount Rainier.

On Tuesday morning, the 22-year-old Kirk Reiser and his best friend left Paradise to go on a day-trip on snowshoes to Camp Muir, which is about a five-mile hike, said Mount Rainier National Park spokesman Kevin Bacher. The two had to turn back about halfway there because of high winds and bad conditions.

One of the men triggered an avalanche at about 1:30 p.m., said Bacher, and then Reiser disappeared into the snow.

His hiking partner, 23-year-old Troy Metcalf, searched for him for hours but was unable to find him. Metcalf returned to Paradise at dusk and reported his friend's disappearance to park service rangers.

Based on his friend's descriptions, Reiser could be about one mile out of Paradise near Edith Creek Basin.

Rescuers set out at about 8 this morning, along with two avalanche search dogs. Bacher said the crew's goal is to pinpoint the location of the missing hiker and do as much searching as possible amid worsening weather conditions on the mountain.

"The extent to which we are able to search really depends on those conditions," said Bacher.

Bacher said a person buried in an avalanche has about a 30-minute survival window. After that, the chances of surviving are slim but not impossible, he said.

"One of the things that may increase the chances is that we don't know for sure that he was buried by an avalanche," said Bacher. "It is conceivable that they [the men] may have been swept apart."

Rescuers are hoping Reiser was able to make a snow cave to stay in overnight. He was equipped with food and water but was not carrying overnight supplies.

Christina Siderius: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

---

Avalanche on Mount Rainier buries snowshoer

01:03 PM PST on Wednesday, December 19, 2007

KING5.com Staff

MOUNT RAINIER, Wash. - A search crew is on Mount Rainier, looking for a 23-year-old man who was buried by an avalanche.

Kevin Bacher of Mount Rainier National Park says Troy Metcalf and Kirk Reiser left for a day of snowshoeing Tuesday morning but turned back due to poor visibility and high winds.

At about 1:30 p.m., while leading the way down, Reiser triggered an avalanche and was swept down the slope.

"His friend searched for him for several hours and then came out at dusk last night and reported his friend missing," said Bacher.

Six rangers from Mount Rainier National Park, four members from mountain rescue and two people with dogs are looking for Reiser. Metcalf helped try to pinpoint where the avalanche occurred.

Rangers say Metcalf and Reiser are experienced, and although the route they were on is considered challenging, on Tuesday it would not have been considered too risky or dangerous. But a lot of snow fell overnight.

Bacher said searchers will be proceeding with caution due to weather conditions.

"There's a lot of snow at Paradise right at the moment and pretty good wind so conditions are ripe for further avalanches," he said.

Reiser is a student at Edmonds Community College.

---

Tacoma, WA - December 19, 2007

MOUNT RAINIERAvalanche conditions, high winds hinder search for snowshoer
JEFFREY P. MAYOR; The News Tribune Published: December 19th, 2007 09:20 AM

High winds, heavy snow and dangerous avalanche conditions are hampering the efforts of a dozen searchers looking for a 22-year-old Lynnwood-area man missing in an avalanche above Paradise at Mount Rainier National Park.
Searchers have found the location of the slide, at the top of the Edith Creek Basin about a mile from Paradise. But the threat of another avalanche is preventing a thorough search of the area, said park spokesman Kevin Bacher.

Search teams have been looking for the missing man since 8 a.m. today. At midday, they returned to Paradise to reassess the situation. This afternoon, another team started out, hoping to reach the spot from a different but safer direction.

Kirk Reiser disappeared Tuesday afternoon when he triggered the avalanche after he and hiking partner Troy Metcalf, 23, of Alderwood, were turned back by poor conditions while trying to reach Camp Muir.

Reiser and Metcalf left Paradise about 10 a.m. Tuesday for a day snowshoeing hike to Camp Muir. They decided to turn back at the tree line because of poor visibility, heavy snow and high winds, Bacher said.

About 1:30 p.m., Reiser was leading the way down when he triggered an avalanche and disappeared in the slide. Metcalf spent several hours looking for Reiser but was unsuccessful.

At dusk, Metcalf returned to Paradise and reported what happened.

The search effort includes rangers from Mount Rainier, members of the Olympia and Tacoma Mountain Rescue teams, staff members from Crystal Mountain and two avalanche dogs.

The weather is making it rough for the searchers. Avalanche conditions are high and getting worse throughout the day. A foot inches of snow has fallen at Paradise since the two men left for their hike.

The weather "is nasty. We’ve got heavy snowfall and high winds," Bacher said. "They’re predicting a foot of snow today and another foot tonight. That’s burying some of the signs of what were looking for and increasing the avalanche danger.”

Metcalf was on the mountain with the search team earlier in the day, trying to help them pinpoint the location of the slide. He had left a ski pole to mark the location of the avalanche.

Bacher said the search will continue until dark and then meet to assess conditions and the forecast. The search will resume at daylight Thursday if conditions allow.

Staff writer Stacey Mulick contributed to this report.

It's interesting that the party is being described as experienced by the MRNP spokesman as quoted in the PI given that the apparently neither was wearing a beacon.

"Both men are experienced snowshoers and were prepared for a day hike, but not overnight conditions. Neither carried an avalanche beacon, which would have made it easier to locate Reiser, Bacher said."

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/344157_avalanche20.html

The search ahs been suspended until a forecasted break in the weather Friday, although the article says they may have to do avy control to secure the area first.

Where are these descriptions of party expertise (also in the case of the lost snowboarders @ Crystal and party at Alpental earlier this month) drawn from? Its kind of like serial killers, always "friends said he was a loner"

You'd have to go off friends, family, and survivors in this case I guess. Its interesting that a party on Rainier in bad and worsening conditions would be described as experienced without beacons. Not that beacons will help your primary goal of avoiding a avy in the first place, but they are as important as wearing pants to work is to me.......

So sad. I followed Gondors thread earlier this week re: safety, decision making, and risk tolerance. He may have been preaching to the choir here, perhaps not, but either way 6 avalanche fataliteis in a MONTH definitely points to a need for the broader BC community, whcih I don't think TAY is representative of, to reappraise what its doing, and when its being done.

Game on......

It's interesting that the party is being described as experienced by the MRNP spokesman as quoted in the PI given that the apparently neither was wearing a beacon.

"Both men are experienced snowshoers and were prepared for a day hike, but not overnight conditions. Neither carried an avalanche beacon, which would have made it easier to locate Reiser, Bacher said."

...

Excuse the thread-jack for a second: The media portrayed a man down here as an "experienced kayaker" in their write-up of his death. He drowned running a low-head dam at high water -- no helmet, no pfd. It was apparent from his family's description that while he'd kayaked before, he was not "experienced" in the sense of "educated". (To his family, he was very experienced.) Anyway, just wanted to point out that the term "experienced" seems to be very subjective and could mean that a person has participated in that activity 3 times before, 15 years ago, in Wisconsin. You and I would have the expectation that an "experienced" person would have some avy classes under their belt, a beacon/probe/shovel, and some well-honed terrain reading skills, etc. Neither definition of "experienced" may be wrong.
There is also always the possibility that the missing person's family will read our posts. (This happened with the kayaker's family on our kayaking forum as they reached out to us to help in the search for his body.) Fortunately we hadn't gotten to the point of armchair-quarterbacking the event as I'm sure our observations would have been painful for the family to read.
I say all that just because the "experienced" term and your questioning of it reminds me of exactly the same thoughts many of us had about the kayaker last year.
Very sad news. There seems to be some hope that he's holed up in a snow-cave somewhere. Thanks for posting updates on here.

The backcountry is no place to be right now. Tuesday at Crystal, even inbound slopes of 20* or less were cutting and sliding. It's a no brainer. 1'-2' of fresh snow piled on top of hard pack, granular, raincrust will, with out a doubt, create slides with hardly any effort.

Stay inbounds. Period!!

Conditions are way above extreme. They are just plain silly.

OLYMPICS, WASHINGTON CASCADES NEAR AND WEST OF THE
CREST-
...AVALANCHE WARNING FOR THURSDAY...
High avalanche danger above 4000 feet and considerable
danger below Thursday morning, gradually decreasing
Thursday afternoon and becoming high above 5000 feet
and considerable below Thursday night and early Friday.
Danger continuing to slowly decrease Friday and
becoming high above 6000 feet and considerable below
Friday afternoon. Danger gradually increasing Friday
night.

Bandit, do you know if those are measured slopes of 20 degrees? If so, exceedingly scary.

Gary Brill's comments are spot on, as are Randy Beaver's.  With the conditions at Paradise the day of the accident,  and in consideration of terrain and the consequences of a slide,  the only risk management choice would be to avoid the slope entirely.  Whether intentional or not, only one of the snowshoers was on the slope when it slid - which would be the best option only if you had absolutely no other option available.  Unfortunately that kind of risk management has dire consequences.  I do differ with Randy in that I think the TAY community is very representative of the broader avalanche community.   Although all of us in the TAY community should have avalanche education, carry beacons, probes and shovels, and have the prerequisite experience to go where we go and make good decisions, I don't believe we all do - based on some of the questions and comments that I read in Random Tracks and Trip Reports.  Even if we all do have the preferred skills and tools, we still need to be constantly alert to the dangers arising from our humanity - and keep the human factors in check.  I've skied in and outbounds, backcountry and frontcountry, for well over 50 years, have made my share of mistakes, and have narrowly missed buying the farm on more than one occasion.  The margin is sometimes thinner than we realize.  The thinking about, studying of and learning from these tragic accidents are the best memorials we can give the unfortunate victims, their friends and families.   Gerry H  

Anyone have a precise route of saftey up to Panorama or above? Seems like all the aspects on that sucker require some travel in AVI terrain.

Maybe a way up from Mazama Ridge?

Also any reports of Avi danger above 7k?

Anyone have a precise route of saftey up to Panorama or above?  Seems like all the aspects on that sucker require some travel in AVI terrain. 
Maybe a way up from Mazama Ridge? 

There's a couple of ways up to the top of Pan that should be safer than where you see the more common winter bootpacks:
The first would be to follow your instincts up Mazama Ridge to Stevens-VanTrump and then follow the Skyline Trail route along the ridge to Pan.
Another less scenic, more direct and a bit steeper route, and one that I've seen RMI guides leading winter seminars favor, is the treed ridge between Pan Face and Edith basin.  I've used that before when I didn't trust Pan Face.

If you're lusting for higher than Pan (like Muir) another option is going from Stevens-VanTrump up the Paradise Gl moraine to the saddle at Cowlitz Rocks and then up the mellowest slopes of the upper Paradie Gl merging back onto the Muir below Anvil.  Burgdorfer shows that alternative on p207 of his latest book, p199 of his old one.

You may note that I didn't say any of these routes were "Safe".  You, of course, know to make that determination based on your own evaluation of current local conditions during your outing.  Nonetheless, I do believe these options utilize mostly lower angle slopes than the more obvious routes typically utilized by the masses to access or circumvent Pan and thus could be safer alternatives.

There is a "safer" route, which I have also heard called the winter route up to Pan Point. I'm sure the folks who know names, have a name for this feature, it is a slender ridge on looker's right of the main ski gully down from pan point (in fact, it makes up the looker's right side of that gully). It is steep, not totally skin-able in the safest area of the ridge and is pretty safe, but not 100%, as not much is. I have only gone up it in my snowshoe days (thankfully years in the past)

Thanks Gerry-you recent avy seminar through the Mtneers was par excellence!

To my comment-jayme's thread last week + numerous other TR's and ?'s thrown out to the wolves have shown a vast spread in tolerance for risk, and real world experience among the TAY population.

However, after riding at Baker for 7 years through college (and Baker IS why it took so long to get through college), as well as riding alot of sidecountry at Alpental the last 2 seasons, I'd say that it appears, at least to me, that the vast majority of active TAY posters at least seek info and education to varying degrees, and are interested in learning more.

This is refreshing. After being buried almost completely inbounds at Baker and almost getting full tree well insertion @ Alpental, I strongly believe in living to ride another day. Most of the folks I've met on TAY and ridden with seem to share that desire.

When I get back to resorts, as I have during the recent IMO "backcountry travel is not a option weather cycles", I'm amazed at the attitude often seemingly evident that "we've got transcievers, and hence are avy proof" on the part of numerous riders, including close friends of mine who I otherwise consider to be reasonably intelligent. Apparently they'll learn to use them when a friend is buried?

Regardless, we all make our own choices. I shake my head at many I've made in the past, when I was younger, dumber, and less cognizant of the fact that the mountains punish arrogance and/or lack of knowledge.

I hope that all BC riders, TAY trolls or not, look hard at themselves, their choices,  and their attitudes in light of this deadly December.

While we should mourn the fallen, we certainly can learn from them as well. It could just as easily have been me, or I suspect many of us, at various times in our BC evolution.

Bandit, do you know if those are measured slopes of 20 degrees? If so, exceedingly scary.

Yes. They were just little kicker hills off the groomed. Obviously, not much of a danger in itself. But, it just proves the extreme nature of the conditions right now.

I would not, by any means, get into any kind of backcountry situation right now.

Be patient. Let things settle.

In my honest opinion. Spring and Summer are the best for doing backcountry. That's just because I'm a mellow lolly gagger who doesn't like to push and plow through 1'+ of fresh , wet snow.

I like to know that the snow I'm on is bonded and compacted to hold the slope.

Missing snowshoer found dead on Mount Rainier

By Christina Siderius and Brian Alexander
Seattle Times staff reporters

Searchers have located the body of a Lynnwood-area snowshoer who went missing on Mount Rainier Tuesday when he was hit by an avalanche.A search party located the body of 22-year-old Kirk Reiser at about 4 p.m. Friday and they are currently working on recovering the remains, said Mount Rainier National Park spokesman Kevin Bacher.

Reiser, an Edmonds Community College student from the Lynnwood area, was swept away in the snow on Tuesday after triggering an avalanche during a day-hike outside of Paradise.

Reiser and hiking partner Troy Metcalf, a close friend, left Paradise to go on a five-mile trip to Camp Muir, but they had to turn back about halfway because of bad conditions. During the hike back, Reiser set off an avalanche — about 40 yards wide by 200 yards long — and vanished in the steep terrain.

Metcalf searched in vain for hours before returning to Paradise for help.

A large search effort was initiated at first light Wednesday, and the crew was able to find the location where the avalanche occurred, which Metcalf had marked with a ski pole.

Second-day search efforts on Thursday were unsuccessful as the team was held back by poor visibility and high avalanche danger, which prevented them from doing any digging in the area. Only about three rangers were out in the field Thursday.

Today, searchers set off explosive charges and triggered controlled avalanches to make the area more safe before searching in the area where they believed Reiser was located, Bacher said. A search team of about 40 people then used metal detectors, and search dogs to find Reiser's remains.

Reiser's family was on the mountain during Friday's search, and has been notified, Bacher said.

A person buried in an avalanche has about a 30-minute window of survival, said Bacher, but rescuers and family members earlier this week were hopeful that Reiser was not, in fact, buried under the snow.

Days after the accident occurred, Bacher says it will be a miracle if he is alive.

"When you are doing these things, it's always tough to make that mental transition away from being hopeful," he said.

More than two feet of new snow has fallen in the area since Reiser's disappearance.

"They seem to be very strong people. This is obviously very difficult for them," he said.

Reiser and Metcalf are described as experienced climbers whose families have been making trips to Mount Rainier for years.

Christina Siderius: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Brian Alexander: 206-464-2026 or This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

fyi - though there was a dog, a metal detector, and a Recco at the site, the decesased was found by probing in the most probable area.

The site is halfway up a bowl at the base of a waterfall, a few hundred feet right and up from the stone shelter. it appears that the deceased fell/was dragged over the waterfall then under the snow, and snow packed on top of him. At the time of recovery, the top of the body was about ten feet deep.

Thanks, Gary.
I know a lot of folks, like myself, were wondering just which slope took this unfortunate young man.
Sounds like he fell into the east facing chute/gully just north of Alta Vista.  There's a natural draw into that chute when descending from above.  I've mistakenly started into it before.  I think a lot of the regulars have.  In fact, I think a snowboarder got buried there a few years ago and his partner got him out because there was still a part of him showing after he was buried.  I remember reading about it and from his description it sounded like the same spot.  I can see how that could happen to someone on their way down from Pan in marginal visibility.  Especially if they were really crankin' because they were "almost home".

Ten feet deep--that's longer than my avalanche probe.

Regarding safe(r) routes between Paradise and Panorama Point, I would avoid Edith Creek basin altogether. I think passing west of Alta Vista would generally be the best policy when there's any question about avalanche conditions. Don't go into Edith Creek Basin at all.

Yeah, we had single-piece and screw-together probes that were longer than my normal probe. The area was a classic terrain trap (abrupt decrease in slope at the bottom of a funnel) so between the original avy, the new snow, and the control work, there was a lot of snow. Often we'd push the probes all the way down and then keep pushing till elbow or shoulder deep. I don't remember who striked and how (several of us striked deep irregular ice layers nearby so it's possible we had shaved a few feet off the surface), but it's possible that by that point because of concerns of an undercut moat, we were probing perpendicularly into the slope, a shorter distance. We dug out a flat staging area immediately downhill of the body, and still the person excavating the body (and getting sprayed by the waterfall) was standing on a platform at least six feet deeper than the staging area.

Thanks for your efforts in the search, Gary.

And that goes for all the other volunteers whose names we don't know.

Big thumbs up.

That is incredible work, that he could be recovered.  It takes special people to do that.  I have always marveled at the folks who are so much more capable than me out there.   Therefore, I always stick to the safe routes and don't hesitate to turn around when I feel I am entering survival mode. 

I was once taking the winter route up to Panarama Point on a nice day and watch some guys on foot climbing up the steep face on the South side above Edith Creek Basin.  I really was wondering about the safety of that.  And of course I have taken a big sluff ride while skiing down the main winter route. 

It's always upsetting when something bad happens and there is a natural tendency to think of ways to keep it from happening again.  Yet...

www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_1221...und_KS.3b9d1a06.html

...."A lot of people love these conditions. That's why people go out into the wilderness, because they love this. They love getting out into the beauty and the solitude of this environment, and there's always risks associated with that," said Bacher.....

When I heard that this party had been "half-way to Camp Muir" but then turned back, and that the avi had occurred in Edith Creek basin, I was guessing that the location might have been somewhere in this photo (snow covered Edith Creek waterfall near center, McClure Rock at top center, Pan Point just out of photo at upper left):


I think Ron's got it right, though, working from Gary's description. I almost went down that draw once in the fog, on the way back to Paradise. As I recall, from the base of Pan Point winter route, one is already in the drainage of that gulley/waterfall, so it is easy to follow the fall line and end up there. It takes a purposeful traverse to get skier's right over the little ridge to get out of that drainage and on the proper route back to Paradise (and as Lowell says, to the west of Alta Vista).

Here's a link to topozone.com map of the area. The photo above was taken from the spot marked by the red symbol, looking north. I think the gulley in this latest avi incident is due west of the red symbol, between the word "SKYLINE" and the labeled contour for "6000".
Edith Creek basin topo

With another avi warning on a weekend, I have to say that Mother Nature's timing could be better, and I hope everyone is safe and snug at home today.

My only near whiteout retreat from halfway to Muir was with two mid 20 year olds in 35 mph gusts and ice pellets from the SW about 7 years ago.  When we were most of the way down the winds pushed us a little East to a steep East facing slope.  I could not see the roll off, partly due to iced up goggles, but two steps into it I froze with a really griping feeling.  We back tracked several dozen yards and headed more SSW.  It was not 15 slow traveling minutes later that we stumbled across the small stone shelter.   I do not know precisely which part of the Edith rim we were on but luckily conditions were not high that day.

This Fall my conditioning hikes and tours included Melakwa Lake, Snow Lake, and Camp Muir as well as a cancelled trip to Crystal.   All areas which have received much prayer and reflection early this season.  This and all the above posts but specifically Randy, GerryH, and Gary's do place increased concern for the gap between my preception and the buried truth (Schrödinger's cat).

It would seem to me that the loss of Kirk Reiser to his family would seem even more senseless if others perished in that gully.  I actually skinned up that drainage last year (much later in the season) with a couple of other folks.  It bothered me a lot to see such a young energetic person perish in the very center of an area that many of us all enjoy so much.  I spent some time poking around my computer last night.  I wanted to see what else I could find that would help show folks less familiar to the area the location and deceptive nature of that drainage above the top of that gully.

Here is a picture taken in October of '06 from the Golden Gate Trail down in Edith Basin (a couple of hundred yards south of the red X on Charles' map) looking west into the gully:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2365/2132752606_ccd6f27b4d.jpg?v=0

Then a shot of the area taken from Foss Peak on the Tatoosh (east of Castle) in June of '06.  Subject gully is marked with a red arrow:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2366/2133926006_c79fdb6702.jpg?v=0

Another from Pinnacle/Castle Saddle in August, this time a yellow arrow marks the spot:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2064/2133147683_5d6b546690.jpg?v=0

From these three shots you can see how one coming down Pan Face or the ridge between the face and Edith Basin (the "winter route") might likely tend to follow the natural drainage next to the ridge line along the edge of Edith Basin which leads to the unnamed gully that Kirk Reiser ventured into.

With hopes that Green Trails would not object to the reproduction of their Paradise map for such an educational purpose, I reproduced it here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2221/2133147303_0c69850d5e.jpg?v=0

If you download the jpg onto your machine so you can zoom in on it (the gully, again is marked with a red arrow) you can see the "winter route" on the ridge headed up to Panorama Point (the red lines are winter ski routes).  Email me if you want higher res copies of any of these images.  What I think really shows up well is how one coming down off of Pan would easily be lulled into the gentle drainage that dumps you right into this gully.  Add some precip, low visibility, a momentary lapse of attention, and... it can happen so quick and so easy.

I cannot recall ever meeting someone in the mountains that I found offensive; there seems to be something about the mountains that makes folks congenial and friendly.  So I suspect I would have liked Kirk Reiser.  Were I in his place I would certainly want my memory to be used to, among other things, to prevent others from suffering the same misfortune as I.  I would hope he might agree.

On all the maps I have I cannot find a name for this gully.  Thus, I think from this point on I will refer to it as "Rieser's Couloir" to help remind myself and others of the deceptive nature of the terrain above this gully.  I hope his family will not object.

Ten feet deep--that's longer than my avalanche probe.

Regarding safe(r) routes between Paradise and Panorama Point, I would avoid Edith Creek basin altogether. I think passing west of Alta Vista would generally be the best policy when there's any question about avalanche conditions. Don't go into Edith Creek Basin at all.

Actually Lowell, when I was 18 or so, I was buried near there on a day when there was probably 50 people or more that had gone up pan point. We decided to skin up near Alta Vista to avoid them (the summer route) and were buried. The snow was not especially deep, not even boot top skinning. The slab was probably 1-2ft and was plenty to be very scary. On top of that it swept us into a terrain trap. This was especially disturbing because, as you know, I spent every winter skiing up there since I was 5 without so much of an issue and in every condition possible. This taught me not to shut my brain off when in familiar areas. 


you can see the ridge that leads to glacier vista behind. Many of you will recognize it.

BTW, in all my years skiing at Muir, i've never seen a slab on the main chute up Pan Point. That doesn't mean it doesn't slide. I'm sure it does.  

I think Gary Gyngve's post says it all "ten feet deep". transceiver or no transceiver, it probably would have made no difference in this case.

You have to go back to what one can do concerning avalanches:

Planning and prep, safe routefinding, and group management/safe travel rules. The timing was poor unfortunately, but beyond that, risk management didn't happen here, quite likely because of poor visibility. Consequences of an avalanche in that gully or in a number of the other features in Edith Creek more or less trumped safe travel rules and rescue techniques.

Actually Lowell, when I was 18 or so, I was buried near there on a day when there was probably 50 people or more that had gone up pan point. We decided to skin up near Alta Vista to avoid them (the summer route) and were buried.

Hi Jason,

Is the incident you're describing shown in your photo? If so, I don't think we're talking about the same place. Your picture is taken near the SW foot of Panorama Point. Descending from this point, you can choose to go SE into Edith Creek Basin or you can go SW around Alta Vista. I was recommending the latter route, below where your picture is taken.

It sounds like the choice you made was between the SW "ridge" of Panorama (the "winter route") and the WSW slope of Panorama (the "summer route"). Is that correct? That's higher than I was talking about. When I mentioned Alta Vista I was referring to the 5940ft bump labeled on the topo map. That's below where your picture was taken.

BTW, in all my years skiing at Muir, i've never seen a slab on the main chute up Pan Point. That doesn't mean it doesn't slide. I'm sure it does.

Mike McNerthney (brother of Pat and Dan McNerthney) died on that slope on Dec. 31, 1977.

Lowell-

The place in the photo is the same as the incident I'm describing. It was just below pan right where you'd ski down to the Nisqually Glacier and cross over and go up to hazard or turn up and go toward pan point on the trail where it is cliffy and blown out of the rock somewhat. Not really a great place to ski up. It is the same way i skied down during the silver skis reinactment.

BTW, I think I know the place you are talking about now.

That's unfortunate about Mike.

When my brother and I were up there several years ago, there was a guy that was buried. I think he posted on here or another board like cascadeclimbers about it. They were skiing a chute down toward edith below pan along a creek. He was dug out by his partner after several minutes. My brother and I climbed out of the same chute they skied after finding it too scary (I'm pretty sure they were right behind us, but this is only a guess. Plus, I'm assuming it was the same place from reading their story, and it could very well not be). My point is, it is always a wonder to see how close of a margin life changing decisions can be.