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12/13/18, 03:44 AM

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Author Topic: helli ski info  (Read 13649 times)
cumulus
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #25 on: 03/22/18, 09:57 AM »

stuffy daycare for adults: now that's a winning cultural combination!

(I usually try to steer clear of sarcasm... but man, seriously?  In this day and age of multiple social media platforms nibbling away at TAY's ability to be a cohesive center of Pacific NW backcountry skiing culture and we get
...and that is absolutely his prerogative (and I support him 100%, as he has been given the responsibility of that judgment). I feel like it is in line with the cultural standards of TAY, which has always been on the stuffier side.

You really want to keep it narrow-minded and conventional: stuffy?  I'm sure that's a great way to recruit a more vibrant crowd: double down on the dour.
And loyalty trumps thinking on your own two feet? (regardless of what we advocate as good backcountry protocol)

my TAY heart is sinking...
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Stefan
Micah
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #26 on: 03/22/18, 10:45 AM »


You really want to keep it narrow-minded and conventional: stuffy?  I'm sure that's a great way to recruit a more vibrant crowd: double down on the dour.
And loyalty trumps thinking on your own two feet? (regardless of what we advocate as good backcountry protocol)

my TAY heart is sinking...


I certainly don't want to restrict the discussion here. Want to talk about commercialism and guiding in the ski industry? Start a thread! I'll jump on and give my opinions (which, TBH, are frequently aligned with HFNC). If you use a modicum of courtesy and employ the golden rule, I'm sure you will not suffer any censorship. I want to emphasize that it was HFNC's rhetorical style (behavior), not his politics or beliefs that led to the deletion of his user.

I'm thankful to have TAY. I'm thankful that Charles started the site and that Marcus and Chris have kept it going (by contributing significant personal time and effort for nothing but the satisfaction of doing it). Given that state of affairs, I'm more than happy to defer to their voices in decisions like how far to let HFNC go. I personally wouldn't (and didn't) ban him. But I certainly don't have a problem with the 'boss' doing so.

I'm sorry, Cumulus, that your TAY heart is sinking. You have posted some great stuff over the years. My TAY heart is heavy, too.
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Micah
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #27 on: 03/22/18, 10:47 AM »

I can appreciate that. Once I deleted a pretty vulgar pic that bunny profane plastered in a 9/11 memorial thread and he about lost his mind. I didn’t give it much thought when I pushed the delete button, it just felt good. He later re posted the pic and called me all sort of vulgarity and nonsenses. I just took it as part of the job. I’d probably ski with him but first I’d give him a piece of my mind and be careful on the offload ramp if we took a chair together. My point is, we didn’t ban his entire history and really did nothing else. He’s still a know it all east coast local but not as much a dick. problem solved and maybe a win for everyone.
did you consider a time out? works ok for us

Thanks for the advice!
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ski_photomatt
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #28 on: 03/22/18, 12:20 PM »


my TAY heart is sinking...


+1.  I've been posting and hanging around on TAY for 16 years and I can't remember seeing the entire history of a person's posts deleted.  While it may be within the site's terms of use, it is IMO is a significant violation of most users' trust in the site.  Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the internet and current Director of the World Wide Web Consortium remarked yesterday on Twitter (https://twitter.com/timberners_lee/status/976623321591762949) that "Any data about me, wherever it is, is mine and mine alone to control."

The site admins should restore freeski's posts.  This should be possible by restoring them from the database backups.
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Jim Oker
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #29 on: 03/22/18, 03:11 PM »

FWIW the context of Tim Berners-Lee's comment is rather  different from this situation. For anyone living under a rock, he's referring to the sort of behavioral tracking that sites like Facebook, Amazon, and Google (and many others) do, creating large repositories  of information about  what we've clicked, what we've  liked, what we've ignored,  etc. And as  I read it it's suggesting  that  this data should  be owned by the  person whose behaviors created it. Not sold and resold and inferred upon with sophisticated machine learning models without informed consent by that person.

I get the concern about a community member's record of participation being wiped clean, but I wouldn't use that statement by Mr Berners-Lee as ammunition  for this notion. His statement might apply to selling the content of your posts  plus your clickstream here  to  a third party. But the duty  to  maintain a faithful  archive for public viewing is another  matter and IMO  entirely based on whatever guarantee a site owner has given to  users. I can imagine many types of sites where  such a  guarantee would be a non-starter.
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pipedream
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #30 on: 03/22/18, 03:55 PM »

I thought we are all supposed to be deleting our Facebooks, not our TAY forum accounts Huh
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Moral of story is don't ski when you can snowboard
kamtron
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Posts: 664


Re: helli ski info
« Reply #31 on: 03/22/18, 04:08 PM »

I thought we are all supposed to be deleting our Facebooks, not our TAY forum accounts Huh
If enough people do that (and if this POS forum software ever gets updated... which I'm happy to volunteer to help), maybe TAY will be about sharing trip reports and stoke rather than diatribes about whomever's personal issue again!

P.S. I know people are working behind the scenes to update. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, I just think the archaic interface and difficulty of uploading photos is what makes people gravitate towards the TAY FB page, or Instagram, or whatever.
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Charlie Hagedorn
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #32 on: 03/22/18, 05:16 PM »

This is a nuanced topic, but I'd like to express support for a temporary block of freeski's account and disapproval of the removal of anyone's entire post history.  Freeski has made positive contributions, but numerous recent posts were detrimental to the valuable and long-standing tenor of TAY.

TAY is important as an archive, as it will serve in decades to come as a historical record of backcountry skiing in the Cascades for both skiers and advocacy. It's important that useful conversations retain their continuity. (For clarity -- in my opinon, it is okay to nuke posts that have gotten out of hand, but not those that make meaningful contributions.)  I'm happy to help to the extent that I can in recovering freeski's posts.
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cumulus
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #33 on: 03/22/18, 05:34 PM »

To be clear: all I'm saying is that respect goes both ways.  As administrators/moderators you're just as intrinsically involved in setting the tone as we all are.
When you remove all of somebody's posts, or invasively edit somebody's post, it doesn't seem like there is much consideration given for courtesy or the golden rule.  As ski_photomatt correctly pointed out, it doesn't exactly foster trust either.  And as flowing alpy pointed out, there are certainly more respectful solutions--a time out for example.

Respect begets respect. Pretty simple--but occasionally complicated too.



btw: really happy nobody has edited the (mispelled?) title: helli ski -- appropriate, eh?  Wink

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Stefan
water
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #34 on: 03/22/18, 11:52 PM »

imo that guy was as close to verbal/mental cancer as i have seen, and on the topic of Mt. St. Helens Institute I have almost been that guy for almost 10 years. Been on enough forums of all variety, the way he wrote, quoted, debated, was among the worst. I was so irritated i made a parody account (changed my name) to heli-free north cascades tay-free username to troll him and admins quickly removed it.

good riddance. dgaf about his history being deleted.

might be a great person to hang with skis on the snow, no doubt, but here was pure garbage, it was like fox news echo chamber, unless you agreed with him, you were in conspiracy against!

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vogtski
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #35 on: 03/23/18, 05:05 AM »

...on the topic of Mt. St. Helens Institute I have almost been that guy for almost 10 years...

As a XC-only skier with little "stoke" to offer, I have probably "almost been that guy" on the subject of the highly overrated management of the National Park Service.   TAY has the right to ban anyone they choose, as long as necessary, but deleting all their posts seems pretty extreme to me.
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I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
flowing alpy
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #36 on: 03/23/18, 07:13 PM »

To be clear: all I'm saying is that respect goes both ways.  As administrators/moderators you're just as intrinsically involved in setting the tone as we all are.
When you remove all of somebody's posts, or invasively edit somebody's post, it doesn't seem like there is much consideration given for courtesy or the golden rule.  As ski_photomatt correctly pointed out, it doesn't exactly foster trust either.  And as flowing alpy pointed out, there are certainly more respectful solutions--a time out for example.

Respect begets respect. Pretty simple--but occasionally complicated too.



btw: really happy nobody has edited the (mispelled?) title: helli ski -- appropriate, eh?  Wink


word
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silaswild
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Posts: 1687


Re: helli ski info
« Reply #37 on: 03/23/18, 08:43 PM »

The volume of non skiing posts on TAY seems inversely related to current snow quality. Meanwhile here at Jackson skiing was very wet yesterday and superb 14" fresh this morning. Sunny and challenging this afternoon.  I'm thankful for all my TAY friends who've shared so many fine stashes with me, including Chris (freeski.)
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mosetick
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #38 on: 03/24/18, 04:09 PM »

I’ll try adding some more detail than I did i my last post. Marcus messaged me privately about HFNC / Freeski on March 8th. I asked him about deleting topics and posts as a simple question and he just went ahead and did it point blank. I realize that Marcus should not have been involved in the first place, but it seems that NWAC members reached out to him rather than Micah or myself. This is not putting blame on Marcus, Freeski should have just been banned temporarily or permanently. Many of his posts contain valuable discussions, even if sometimes extremely controversial.
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BillK
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #39 on: 03/24/18, 06:17 PM »

And several could potentially put your "community's" site in legal jeopardy
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Randy
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Posts: 1376


Re: helli ski info
« Reply #40 on: 03/24/18, 07:21 PM »

My take on FreeSki's posts is there was a bit useful information, but it was small compared to the add on rantings and "I'm being supressed" tone.  IMHO the breaking point is when he started derailing various other threads hammering again and again about his issues.

You can find bits and pieces of his posts where others quoted him.

His posts on NWAC under the handle "Vague observations for money" were another example of taking things beyond where they could be a useful contribution.

Perhaps he was unable to gain insight from this classic


https://goo.gl/images/mFQ3xB
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flowing alpy
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #41 on: 03/26/18, 10:25 AM »

And several could potentially put your "community's" site in legal jeopardy
How?
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BillK
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Posts: 231


Re: helli ski info
« Reply #42 on: 03/26/18, 01:20 PM »

Libel? Defamation?  Not sure of the correct term but I think there is a potential risk to the website.  Any lawyer's care to comment?
« Last Edit: 03/26/18, 01:29 PM by BillK » Logged
bbrelje
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WWW
Re: helli ski info
« Reply #43 on: 03/26/18, 02:19 PM »

Libel? Defamation?  Not sure of the correct term but I think there is a potential risk to the website.  Any lawyer's care to comment?


IANAL, but:
- Libel is written defamation. Slander is verbal defamation.
- Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act provides immunity for internet services (such as Facebook) from defamation claims based on content generated by their users. Unless freeski was the owner (or possibly a mod / agent of the owner), TAY is immune from a defamation lawsuit. TAY certainly isn't obliged to remove potentially libelous content preemptively, and I'm not even sure they're obliged to do so upon request.
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flowing alpy
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Re: helli ski info
« Reply #44 on: 03/26/18, 04:01 PM »

there has been some pretty heinous shit posted at the mothership,
stuff that made the drivel that ‘helli’ posted seem more like a blog.
TAY ain’t gonna get sued cuz a guy wants his bc to his self imo
i’m at best a canine dentist, i’ll leave the lawyering to geezer steve
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