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Author Topic: source lake uphill dog park trail  (Read 132907 times)
SeatownSlackey
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #100 on: 01/31/17, 10:54 AM »

Perhaps a parking pass for ski pass holders would be in order to help with some of this?

As much as I am loathe to admit it, i think this is the most logical path to help mitigate the rising conflict.  

In fact, if the summit was managed by its ownership directly i think you would have seen this happen already as it makes me wonder if Boyne's operating lease is set up to properly incentivize them to take such steps.

and before anyone gets their panties in a twist, i'm not advocating for excluding non lift riders from parking but rather charging a higher rate to account for the revenue lost when all lots are full and 15-20% of available spots are occupied by non patrons.


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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #101 on: 01/31/17, 12:14 PM »

There really isn't anywhere to park at the pass to access the standard touring spots that isn't ski area parking - Commonwealth, Snoqualmie Mtn / Phantom, Source Lake, etc.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #102 on: 01/31/17, 12:48 PM »

A parking pass that comes with your season pass or with a day ticket would be one way...
That seems like a band aid for a larger problem though, which is;

Where can people in the Puget Sound who aren't skiers or snowboarders go to have a Winter experience?
Current resources at the Pass are quickly overwhelmed and the residents are some times unfairly put upon.

JMO - The state and the Forest service needs to step up and develop/promote more areas on either side of the crest that will allow people to be able to visit and enjoy a winter environment in a way that isn't in conflict with others or in harms way (think Tinkham Road Exit sliding area for instance).
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #103 on: 01/31/17, 01:16 PM »

OK, sure I can see why you would apply that to support your argument and view...
However, that was clearly written with "ski runs" in mind, not a ski out traverse trail that was created to provide a gravity fed return that is meant to bring "down hill skiers and snowboarders" back to the base.

The reality is, people are playing on parts of it with children on sleds, etc, hiking up against the flow with infants in backpacks etc. Why would you place either a skier or hiker in position that could ruin each others day not to mention life?

The "return tracks" are every bit a "ski run" as anything else at Alpental -- just narrower.    It seems that core issue is that you believe that you have the  to ski these narrow "return tracks" at a speed where your ability to avoid a collision with others using the trail (whether they are heading up or down) is questionable.   

So whom is the bigger jerk? -- the know nothing snowshoer with their kid in a backpack foolishly plodding up the "down track"-- or the totally rad downhill skier clocking along at 25mph that slams into them?

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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #104 on: 01/31/17, 01:27 PM »

A parking pass that comes with your season pass or with a day ticket would be one way...

Oregon uses something like this -- *ALL* cars parked in lift ski area lots require a ODOT "sno-park" pass $25 annually, $9 for a three day pass, $4 for a day pass.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/6642.pdf

Personally I think it is a good approach, but I suspect WA lift area operators would oppose a move to such a system vigorously.

I'm not sure it would do much to reduce the troubles with fools wandering up along the Alpental "return track" -- unless the DOL adds a "How drive, ski and walk on snow without being a jerk" learning requirement to purchase of such a pass.
« Last Edit: 01/31/17, 01:51 PM by Randy » Logged
AlpineRose
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #105 on: 01/31/17, 02:42 PM »

Quote
The state and the Forest service needs to step up and develop/promote more areas on either side of the crest that will allow people to be able to visit and enjoy a winter environment in a way that isn't in conflict with others or in harms way (think Tinkham Road Exit sliding area for instance). 

Great idea but merely mentioning it on an internet forum won't get anything done. 
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #106 on: 01/31/17, 05:25 PM »

If pedestrians used the pedestrians route, there would be no problem.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #107 on: 01/31/17, 05:42 PM »

The "return tracks" are every bit a "ski run" as anything else at Alpental -- just narrower.    It seems that core issue is that you believe that you have the  to ski these narrow "return tracks" at a speed where your ability to avoid a collision with others using the trail (whether they are heading up or down) is questionable.   

So whom is the bigger jerk? -- the know nothing snowshoer with their kid in a backpack foolishly plodding up the "down track"-- or the totally rad downhill skier clocking along at 25mph that slams into them?

You have missed the point. Not surprising.
When was the last time you were up to Alpental?
Have you been on the traverse out?
Have you experienced this first hand?

25 mph? [snort/shakes head]





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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #108 on: 01/31/17, 05:42 PM »

Great idea but merely mentioning it on an internet forum won't get anything done. 

You're assuming this is the only place that is has been brought up then...
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #109 on: 01/31/17, 06:33 PM »

You have missed the point. Not surprising.

The point being that you feel that your lift skiing experience is being unfairly infringed upon by "plodders" that didn't follow the instructions on some sign.

I've heard a lot of gnashing of teeth by a lot of skiers about (snowshoers, booters, NOB skiers, etc) other people not following some "rules" about keeping the ski track over a lot of decades.   

These complaints have their foundation in the expectation that others should make an extra effort in so that the skier's has a better experience.

Given human nature -- I find it interesting that people keep hoping others will change.

I won't say the last time I skied out that way -- but rather the 1st -- that was in 1972.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #110 on: 01/31/17, 07:54 PM »

was there a LoT4 dog park in 72'?
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #111 on: 02/02/17, 08:24 AM »

Interesting twist on The LoT4 dog park yesterday.
Instead of dogs n tourons, it was occupied by a troop of Girl Scouts.
They were very respectful and cleaned up after themselves!
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natefred
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #112 on: 02/02/17, 01:38 PM »

Oregon uses something like this -- *ALL* cars parked in lift ski area lots require a ODOT "sno-park" pass $25 annually, $9 for a three day pass, $4 for a day pass.

I think only a few ski area lots are designated as sno-parks. Most you can park at without a sno-park pass.
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #113 on: 02/02/17, 04:32 PM »

I think only a few ski area lots are designated as sno-parks. Most you can park at without a sno-park pass.

Timberline, Ski Bowl, Mount Hood Meadows, Mt Ashland all require sno-parks.  I think Mt Batchelor does not.
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snojones
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #114 on: 02/03/17, 09:35 AM »

First of all, let me the refer to the law, which states that a downhill skier must avoid people below them!  There is no excuse for skiing past this fundamental point of control, on any slope or trail.  As far as I am concerned if you hit somebody who was down hill form you, you are "out of control" and at fault.  No questions about it!   You hit them you phucked up.

However, I think it is using an overly broad brush to paint a picture in which Skiers should have no attachment to the ski tracks they work hard to break and maintain in deep snow....     
 
Don't worry that the people who posthole the skin track are destroying a lot of hard work.  No problem that everyone who skis that trail will have to do a lot more hard work as a result.  After all skin tracks make it easier for the uneducated to wallow up the mountain.   Never mind that once post holed, the track is potentially degraded for weeks, for everyone who follows,  either climbing or descending.  I mean isn't it their right to do what ever they want?  Being educated and compassionate is so unamerikan.

Maybe those skin tracking whiners should just accept that ignorance is a basic human right?  If so... can they now take a dump in the track along with the dogs?  I mean who wants to go way off track to preform their basic peristaltic duty?  That is such a hassle!

It seems to me that a path to a better future would involve consideration for everybody's point of view.   Give the hikers an exclusive place to practice their postholing, dog parks for dog shit, and an outhouse for humans, weather they they think their shit stinks or not.



« Last Edit: 02/03/17, 09:57 AM by snojones » Logged
alpentalcorey
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #115 on: 02/03/17, 10:52 AM »

What happened to the sign that clearly stated that downhill skiers have the right of way?  I would chip in for a new one if cost is the issue.  The trail is fully within the ski area and not in anything goes everyone equal wilderness.
« Last Edit: 02/03/17, 01:48 PM by alpentalcorey » Logged
gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #116 on: 02/06/17, 07:34 PM »

Not my point.... At all.

Clearly, you are attached to your limited understanding of the situation.
By your own admission you have no practical understanding of whats going on out there.
So, maybe try sticking to a subject you actually have some practical working knowledge with.
MmmmKay?

For everyone that keeps quoting the law.
How many of you take your kids to play in the snow in the middle of a ski run?
Show of hands?

PS. This isn't about telling people they can't so much as it is about helping those who don't know better to establish a level of awareness that would help them make better choices.

PS. PS. Signs are coming

The point being that you feel that your lift skiing experience is being unfairly infringed upon by "plodders" that didn't follow the instructions on some sign.

I won't say the last time I skied out that way -- but rather the 1st -- that was in 1972.

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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #117 on: 02/07/17, 05:05 AM »

What happened to the sign that clearly stated that downhill skiers have the right of way?  I would chip in for a new one if cost is the issue.  The trail is fully within the ski area and not in anything goes everyone equal wilderness.
i have proof of that sign from it's original location
at the head of the source lake uphill dog park trail.
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snojones
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #118 on: 02/07/17, 09:34 AM »

In the interest of education;... Maybe a new sign that renames the place "Dog Shit Wallows" could be helpful? 
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rlsg
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #119 on: 02/07/17, 01:21 PM »

Wow...this is getting deep!'  No complaints thpugh..
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #120 on: 02/07/17, 05:39 PM »

The Southern Resort @Crystal imposes a fee and special permit in order to park in their most convenient parking area. If LoT4 needs to be special permit parking for weekend use, I'd put my name on the edict.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #121 on: 02/09/17, 08:07 AM »

Dog Park been deep and very un-crowded.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #122 on: 02/09/17, 01:16 PM »

It's a long walk to the dog park when the pass is closed at Exit 34 Grin
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Moral of story is don't ski when you can snowboard
flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #123 on: 02/13/17, 06:48 AM »

Bachelor has a dedicated dog park in the West Village parking lot.
The area is large, plowed and groomed, with poop bags and garbage cans.
Amazing place to let the dogs run unmolested by ski traffic!
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #124 on: 02/13/17, 11:27 AM »

Yeah, but like you know I live in Seattle and stuff.  My cujo-rotty needs his alpine recreation just like you.  I like to go to Alpental on the weekends and I told all my bros how sick it is.  Don't worry about cujo growling at you, I think he's really friendly.  Watch your grill, sometimes he snatches brats right off of there.  Don't get mad at me, cujo's gonna explore the lot and do his eating and pooping in real time.  I love my cujo.
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