Tele boot suggestions

bite the bullet and switch to NTN. I'll bet a pair of TX or TX pros will save you 1.5 lbs compared to the BD Push, and the NTN binding weights aren't much heavier than other popular free pivot bindings. I've gone from T3s to T2s to T1s to TXs and now I've picked up a pair of TX pros. The TXs are by far the most comfortable ski boot I've tried. What didn't you like about the T2 ecos?

If you get the TX-Pro it looks like you can be a switch-hitter and set up a Dynafit TLT also.
Now this looks more enticing to me one boot does all!
Though it looks like it may be to much beef for the BC?
MD you must not think your going to be dragging it around?
What do you think about the shin pressure on your TX compared to the TX pro?

Whoaa - TMI! The technical discussion is great, but let's leave our fantasies out of this discussion.

About the Customs and the 151's...
...it's a bit like trying to use a 4x4 post to submerge Rosie O'Donnell in tub of whip cream.

Also, I need a forum that will not only describe all of the possible expenditures but provide some new get rich quick schemes so new purchases are possible.

Besides - why waste money on a 4X4 - wouldn't she just eat her way to the bottom?

Glory... let's not go any farther down that road...

If you get the TX-Pro it looks like you can be a switch-hitter and set up a Dynafit TLT also.
Now this looks more enticing to me one boot does all!
Though it looks like it may be to much beef for the BC?
MD you must not think your going to be dragging it around?
What do you think about the shin pressure on your TX compared to the TX pro?

I'll be dragging it around plenty. I'm not old enough for Dynafits.

The TX-Pros are only a few oz heavier than the TX. I haven't skied the TX pros yet, but the shin pressure should be similar to the TXs. The front of the boot is the same height with the main difference being the added buckle and a bit higher flap to accomodate. The tongue is the same height. The back of the cuff is the same hieght. The sides are a bit higher.

Holy cow. This thread is on track for less time than it takes for me to yard sale on a double diamond. Any other suggestions out there?

Holy cow. This thread is on track for less time than it takes for me to yard sale on a double diamond. Any other suggestions out there?

It sounds like you aren't keen to spend the dough to get new boots and new bindings -- so that means sticking with 75MM right?.

Which bindings do you currently have ?
Why didn't you like the T2 Eco ? Was it too stiff ? or just didn't fit right ? If the latter -- recall that without thermofitting most boots don't fit well.

I have a pair of old blue two buckle T2s size 10.5 and a pair of old red three buckle TRace boots also in 10.5-- I might be able to part with...

I'm running with hammerheads right now on BD Crossbows. I like these skis for an all-around and spring skiing. Likely going to something around low to mid 90s underfoot for deep stuff with a touring mode pivot thingy. T2 Ecos just didn't feel right and really, close to what I have now in the T2s, which I'll keep around for lighter duty.

Looking for suggestions for a boot for 75% bc, 25% in area - boot & ski pairings always appreciated. Equipment has changed so much and I haven't kept up!

I'll be dragging it around plenty. I'm not old enough for Dynafits.

The TX-Pros are only a few oz heavier than the TX. I haven't skied the TX pros yet, but the shin pressure should be similar to the TXs. The front of the boot is the same height with the main difference being the added buckle and a bit higher flap to accomodate. The tongue is the same height. The back of the cuff is the same hieght. The sides are a bit higher.

;D ... and I'm too old for TX Pros ... if I were to replace my pretty worn out 3-buckle T-2s, I'd get TX Pros, but I'm having way too much fun with the Dynafits with soooooo much less work! I used my T-2s and Volkl Snowwolfs with Hardwire tours once last season.

Scarpa T1s + 22 Designs AXL Bindings would be a proven combination that will be robust, reliable and ski well.
Scarpa T1s + Voile Switchback are also an excellent combination and slightly lighter and cheaper than the AXL.

Which combo to choose depends on which HammerHead pivot point you prefer -- If you ski in the low #1, #2 or #3 HammerHead positions -- the Switchback is good canidate.   If you are Pos#4 or Pos#5  guy -- AXL.   If you want to be able to adjust the flex AXL.

If you like farting around with new gear -- you might consider the Scarpa Terminator-X boots with either Rottefella NTN bindings or if you are really a bleeding edge gear tinkerer the NT Bulldogs.

The Scarpa NTN boots are lighter than their equivalent 75MM boots and also have Dynafit fittings in case you want to go AT at times without having to buy another set of boots.  The Rotte NTN binding is a little heavier -- but is step-in, has brakes, disaster release and is in it's third season so hopefully most of the kinks have been worked out.  

The NT Bulldogs look promising -- but have had very limited testing, so I think you would have to enjoy tinkering to go that route.  (which is what I'm doing)

My 2 cents after about 100000000000000000 billion cents worth of tele gear purchases...

Garmont makes the finest boots out there. The older models were boats, the newer ones are narrower and somewhat obscure but their molding techniques, bellows, and weight to power ratio are supreme to others. POWER with GRACE, and solid integrity.

I skied the BD customs last year; found that they do indeed have a great out of box fit, however far from well refined. BD has been manufacturing tele boots for 1 year; they made a good go of building a bomb proof boot but they're heavy! I dislike touring in them after a couple miles, and the Seeker is their touring boot and still heavier than Garmonts VooDoo (burliest boot).

22 designs Axl=heavy and not fun to tour with, killer if your killin’ it—and actually killin it, no old school gaper sh*t

BD 01= shitty cartridges you have to adjust every time you put the ski on (use gorilla tape): mid-stiff for pow and less aggressive style, Rid Stiff if you know how to slay it. Best power to weight ratio, and mass sex appeal (disturbing a binding can have this, but polished S/S is damn fine)

Voile Swithchback= lightest touring option for unless you’re still on pins, and have cartridges that feel like they came without springs. I retrofitted mine with G3 world cup springs and hope the rods will withstand the tension…we’ll see. Weak bindings overall, touring mechanism ices like crazy, and not worth the headache.

Haven’t skied 7tm Power Tour, or G3 Ascent: hear good things about 7tm, and that G3 Ascents ice up horribly. NTN is heavy, and expensive (even with pro deal), not to mention it has a pretentious snooty name.

Best value for a one quiver set-up: Rossignol S3’s or S97’s with Garmont Voodoo and BD 01s (mid stiff). A lot of compromises in there, but you can’t have it all unless you’re willing to spend it all. Also, tele gear needs a revolution like what’s happening to AT gear, super light without much compromise of power. It all grew up so fast…

Must resist temptation to buy NTN gear....Must resist Temptation to buy NTN gear...
The urge to buy new gear and try new stuff is my Kryptonite I get weak and my mind goes blurry and the next thing I know I have a new set of gear in my hands.
...I'll just go to Marmot and try the gear on and see how it feels- it can't hurt.
What Rottefella has a deal that if you buy an NTN boot set and new NTN binding you can get $100 Visa Cash card by mail in rebate.
Man the Scarpa TX pro fits pretty nice and I can get last years model about $150 off retail and it I buy the binding I get a package deal and reduced binding cost.
It looks like it will work pretty well with my dynafit set up too, the boots come with a pair of shims that fit in the slot for the ski crampons I never use. They are a stiff model of the F3.
KaChing, KaCHing done deal!
Bought from the good people at Marmot who helped out real nicely.
Great to buy early, get fitted and avoid the rush and save some dough. Good Rationalization in my mind.
Now to apply the $100 to a new set of fat skis

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A THREAD TO HELP CHAMOIS GET A SETUP NOT ME!!!
(Rubbing my hands)...Can't wait for the snow to fly now!

Wow! That was quick. Too funny.

Dammit Joe...

Sigh. I'm going to go check the gutters for dropped dollar bills.

Must resist temptation to buy NTN gear....Must resist Temptation to buy NTN gear...
The urge to buy new gear and try new stuff is my Kryptonite I get weak and my mind goes blurry and the next thing I know I have a new set of gear in my hands.
...I'll just go to Marmot and try the gear on and see how it feels- it can't hurt.
What Rottefella has a deal that if you buy an NTN boot set and new NTN binding you can get $100 Visa Cash card by mail in rebate.
Man the Scarpa TX pro fits pretty nice and I can get last years model about $150 off retail and it I buy the binding I get a package deal and reduced binding cost.
It looks like it will work pretty well with my dynafit set up too, the boots come with a pair of shims that fit in the slot for the ski crampons I never use. They are a stiff model of the F3.
KaChing, KaCHing done deal!
Bought from the good people at Marmot who helped out real nicely.
Great to buy early, get fitted and avoid the rush and save some dough. Good Rationalization in my mind.
Now to apply the $100 to a new set of fat skis 

I THOUGHT THIS WAS A THREAD TO HELP CHAMOIS GET A SETUP NOT ME!!!
(Rubbing my hands)...Can't wait for the snow to fly now!

You are completely out of control and require adult supervision. New AT boots, now NTN set up! Are you embezzling someone.. blackmail or what?

Now to apply the $100 to a new set of fat skis 

Scotty,  Another convert ?  ;D

What do you mean by fat ?  ;D

My 2 cents after about 100000000000000000 billion cents worth of tele gear purchases...

That's 10 to the 26th cents, or 10 to the 24th dollars. I think that's an official Guiness record... you can stop buying now. Until next year.

That's 10 to the 26th cents, or 10 to the 24th dollars.  I think that's an official Guiness record... you can stop buying now.  Until next year.

OKay, slight exaggeration! Still, if it's suggested that engagement rings are 2 months of your salary, I think it's fair to say I'm engaging to my love of skiing every year...hope she never says yes.

You are completely out of control and require adult supervision.  New AT boots, now NTN set up!  Are you embezzling someone.. blackmail or what?

Really I think that I was "Roofied" and in my delusional state of mind could not resist the lure of the NTN system. The only way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it.
I have been living on meager means of overcooked porridge and celery stocks to justify the purchases. I may return the AT boots depending on how they feel compared to the TX-Pro.

Scotty,  Another convert ?  ;D

What do you mean by fat ?  ;D

It's all relative. Like when I tell someone that I have really gotten fat they look at me with skepticism.
But my thoughts on (ski) waist width are ranging from 98 to 105.
Logically since the NTN system is heavier and built to drive a ski I may go with a ski that leans to Crystals lift skiing conditions and some slackcountry. so 80 lift/20 slack. That means I don't have to go so light, but the beauty of the NTN system is that you can buy a plate and install it on another ski and interchange the binding system between skis. I'm trying to keep the skis around 8lbs, but I see that can be tough without spending big $, like DPS.
Lots of stuff gets axed because it gets over 9lbs a pair and I don't need that much weight on a ski.
That said qualifiers include (front runners first):
K2 Hardside 188cm-can handle the chop, hard stuff, mank and powder with power to boot. Nice features. Nice turn radius for tele. Downside-still have bitter taste from skiing the Coombas that have zero pop when loaded up.
G3 Zenocide-interesting A little lighter, wider under foot, less sidecut-Lousy company 60 day warranty, that is just stupid, maybe they don't trust their skis.
G3 Tonic-same BS as above little more beef.
Movement Jackle-has anyone skied these? They look great on paper.

To me-BD skis are either too stiff, too soft, to narrow with perfect flex, to floppy or to specialized.

G3's seem to be either to flimsy or to stiff, burly and boardy.

There is so much gear compared to years ago it's great.

Joe:

Voile Charger?

-Great intro to the latest design ideas
-A fat ski that turns
-8 lbs
-very similar to DPS Wailer, but lighter, and cheaper (DPS fans feel free to argue skiing characteristics)
-historically voile offers 1 year warranty, but I don't see that mentioned on their website currently
-On my wish list, along with a burning desire to demo NTN (maybe I could take them for a spin?)

I thought about the Charger, and Voiles lineup of skis are very good in the pow and spring glop. But they have a tendency to be worthless when the snow gets firm.
Maybe the Charger changes that though?

If you have the boot that fits, no problem checking them out.

I thought about the Charger, and Voiles lineup of skis are very good in the pow and spring glop. But they have a tendency to be worthless when the snow gets firm.
Maybe the Charger changes that though?

If you have the boot that fits, no problem checking them out.

Da baker on NTN's? hope the Spadeamarks were not harmed in the acquisition of said system ;D

Da baker on NTN's? hope the Spadeamarks were not harmed in the acquisition of said system ;D

When I saw you taking that fat NTN setup down Pinball (off the King), I figured that maybe I need to rethink my tele setup. If it's good enough for the champ, well it's good enough for me. 

No harm done- Spademark is all the rage! Uh...by one guy..
Just unfounded...But when it picks up steam watch out.  ;D
Last night I was dreaming that I was flying around the hill on a pair of leathers, so anything is possible!

FWIW-I see that the only change in the newer TX-Pro boot is that Scarpa is using a tongue design liner instead of the overlap. It may make that boot feel softer, which in my unskied opinion does not need to happen. Also, It bugs me that Scarpa chose an intuition liner that has a honeycomb bumpy surface on the interior of the liner. It seems that it is more of a foot irritation (especially touring) than a smoother silk surface. Anybody know why they do that? You can feel it all the time and it is old school as far as liner design.  > ???

Oh yeah Matt,
I was assuming that you like your NTN setup?
Have anything to share about that?

here's some NTN stoke for you.

For the OP the new(er) T1's are perfect for what you describe with the new thermo fit liner (lighter) if NTN is not on the table.   I think the wider skis need a bigger boot if you ski in all conditions.

Now that NTN fixed there initial problems I hope demo fleets come back....It's a hard pill to swallow without testing.

Oh yeah Matt,
I was assuming that you like your NTN setup?
Have anything to share about that?

Yep, like the set up for crystal style skiing with the mix of lift and lift served BC.  Be patient,  I needed several days to get comfortable as they ski different. I still will not sell the candy canes yet but the releasable feature and the added control keep me from switching back.

I have the same liner in the TX-comp and they feel soft standing but skiing they are good maybe a little soft while skiing in rough crappy snow.

Tips-
Read up before you mount your new skis.  I find I'm mounting further forward on my pow skis 1 cm behind boot center, GS skis are boot center.  Pin center is out and ball of foot deal is pointless for me very close to boot center and within the adjustment travel but you have big feet.
Check your mtg plate screws before every other trip in the beginning I find my screws back out but I never gave the glue enough time to set.  This should be fixed next year.  The pow was flying and I mounted them 3 hours before night skiing oops.

We like to ski the same gloppy late spring "powder" if you will, so snow packing under the binding will become a problem.  There are a few tricks I've seen sleeping pad foam under the springs I have not tried this yet, but wax and pam did not work for me.  I had the same problem with my other tele bindings but removing the snow from the NTN is a royal pain in deep snow.
 

We like to ski the same gloppy late spring "powder" if you will, so snow packing under the binding will become a problem.  There are a few tricks I've seen sleeping pad foam under the springs I have not tried this yet, but wax and pam did not work for me.  I had the same problem with my other tele bindings but removing the snow from the NTN is a royal pain in deep snow.

Yup. That's my biggest issue with NTN. When switching from tour to downhill mode, snow buildup makes it impossible to push the tour lever down without removing the ski and cleaning out the baseplate. Mostly occurs when breaking trail in deeper stickier snow. I cut and inserted some Voile anti ice tape towards the end of last season and it really seemed to help. I may try the sleeping pad foam trick this year.

www.voile-usa.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc...=VTA&Product_Count=3

Thanks for the timely mounting tips Matt.
That was going to be the project for today.

I bought the K2 Hardside ski for multi purpose use and I'll take your advice on mounting the boot center for those with the option of the fore and aft that the plate provides.
The new plate design looks better than last years. I don't understand why they designed/used the double hole punch holes for the old plate ???

Did you guys use a blue lock-tite on the two small mounting screws that connect the binding with the plate? Or just let the salt corrosion build to hold the screws from backing out?

Did you guys use a blue lock-tite on the two small mounting screws that connect the binding with the plate? Or just let the salt corrosion build to hold the screws from backing out?

I didn't last year, but I probably will this year. Those set screws have to be checked every once in a while. Don't over tighten them as the holes are soft and have been known to strip out. I barely use finger and thumb on the driver. Also, I wouldn't remove them to apply the loc-tite. They're not that easy to get back in.

Review of Scarpa NTN TX-Pro used for AT
They are very comfy and they climb like a goat with the bellows flex. After a while did not have to use the heel lifts only for the super steeps like out of Green Valley.
My buddy WindDaveski thought that NTN tele touring on them was more tiring like using an o2 binding, not as free walking mode as the o1.

They do have a very dominate forward lean to them when AT skiing. The ramp angle is a little to steep for me. Tires the thighs out pretty quick. The increased ramp angle is especially noticeable when skinning on the flats. If I take the ski brake off my Dynafit it may decrease the forward lean when walking on the flats. But does not resolve the ramp when locked in the Dynafit heel.
Skied pretty good in the deep pow even on narrower skis 88 waist, seemed a little squirrelly in the firm groomed. I skied it on the lifts the other day AT and it was really good in the packed pow and small moguls off Chair 9.
I could shim the toe piece, but that will mess things up when I use my dedicated AT boots.
They are awesome climbers, so comfy that all I really have to do at the top is flip the heel lock down and I'm off and flying. Would be great for rando racing if you don't care about the extra weight of the boot.

Overall I may not be use them much for AT unless I hear a solution for that ramp angle.
Suggestions?

Got out on the NTN's yesterday and here are my impressions so far.
I am going to have to ski them a little more on the lifts and tinker with the adjustments a bit.
Trying to find the stance location so I feel centered not using to much trailing foot or to much forward foot. It shows up here and there but not getting the full edge feel and balance. Better feel on low angle slopes where I have easy transitions without awkward balance.
I adjusted the blue springs from 3 down to 2.5 and that made a difference in the boot deep pow. My very first run on them was in sweet powder on a 35 degree pitch and I felt like I could not get over the downhill ski. Evey time I pushed forward it pushed further out in front of me. After the adjustment I felt much better and over the ski. It skied better than the o1 in the powder, more control.
Touring is more difficult in NTN. I recommend sidecountry only. The resistance of the springs are felt even in tour mode and I do not recommend for long tours. Especially if there are a lot of switchbacks. The shovel of the ski dives when the heel is raised, so when I try to do a normal kick turn I have to have a weird straight leg or hope for the best quick move where the shovel tip of the up hill ski gets caught in the transition and sometimes needs assistance from a ski pole to come around. The heel lift is nice and easy to deploy and retract. It may wear out though over a period of time and tend to collapse while hiking.
The Scarpa TX-Pro boots are still money well spent and very comfy. The bellows help ease the stiffness of the springs when hiking. I barely have the top two buckles clamped and the boot fits perfect all I need to do is flip the walk mode to ski mode and not adjust any buckles.