Worst Ski Season Ever?

Skykilo,<br><br>I think you kind of missed my point. Sure, given no commitments and if I were dirty rich, I could give a damn if the whole western hemisphere melted this winter. I would still be skiing powder (or doing those treed tours).<br><br>I don't want to get personal, so lets just say that respecting others' skill level or life circumstances will allow anyone to understand what is happening this year.<br><br>Glad your having a great time!<br><br>Alan

Alan - I do understand that everyone makes different life tradeoffs and that therefore the weather causes more impact on some than on others. I also understand that on top of that, I'm lucky - I have working legs, I don't have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet, and I have managed to live in an amazing part of the world. Due to my own tradeoffs, the weather has ineed prevented me from getting out as much this season as I did last year, but I know if I changed my tradeoffs a bit, I could be getting even more untracked powder this year than I did last. I accept my tradeoffs - it's my own choice. I guess it's in part knowing that that keeps me from the "woe is us" attitude this year. I still feel we're all incredibly lucky to be surrounded by such bounty, even this year. <br><br>I think you may have missed my New England point - when I lived there, I didn't drive out here - I drove from near Boston to northern NH, ME, and VT - a drive that is at least as long as my drive to Baker ski area. And often, all that got me was a chance to crampon up a few inches of ice over dirt, or to slide on man-made ribbons of white.

By now, I've accepted the lack of snow and I'm not going to whine about it. I'll just pretend it's July. I've got a ticket to ride and a license to suck . <br><br>Go get some.

Maybe the best compromise in a way to describe this season would be "Worst Snow-depth Season Ever". I'm not sure if that is technically true, but many people probably would'nt argue with it.

Its funny how people react the question posed. Lots of folks feel the need to show their ability to go higher, or to sniff out the good stuff even in a bad year. Others feel the need to let us all know they're not going to whine about it. <br><br>I guess what I really wanted to know is best found just by looking at the SNOTEL data, and realizing that WA is at 15% of normal snowpack for this season-not by asking people to rank the snow this season. Any objective analysis reveals "yes, this is the worst snow season in decades". <br><br>Unless we have abig spring or summer rain, I guarantee we'll be feeling the pinch this summer as the reservoirs run dry.

Oh, and I also like the references to "its better than New England skiing" <br><br>This aint the east coast, and no comparisons to East Coast skiing or snow conditions need apply. This is the Cascades man, the west, we have much higher expectations. <br><br>The snow this year is definitley better than skiing in Nebraska!<br><br>Not to bag on you guys, I just always find these references amusing. End rant-<br>

Jim,<br><br>I agree, bounty we have. And I expect next year to be fun.<br><br>Actually, my reference to New England, was referring to someone's comment on drives to British Columbia. I feel the Chic Chocs was an appropriate comparison.<br><br>I also did those 3.5 hr drives up to Pinkham Notch, etc. I would not be a happy puppy if the only spot I had for spring skiing was Tuckerman's or the Gulf of Slides. Also, wouldn't trade the nice warm tree skiing we CAN have here for those -10 degree nights out on the Wilderness Trail.<br><br>Speaking of people in the area moving to Colorado because ot the snow. I think after this thread, they will be moving to Glacier, or Bellingham! ( I have thought of this many times myself)<br><br>I will ski the Baker area, have done every year and will do this year. Just can't do the other things I want to.<br><br>Alan

New England isn't looking so bad at all right now...<br>And unlike every other NE ex-pat here, I have an awful lot of powder filled memories on the flanks of the Apps. Skiing here is different, not necessarily better. Access, at least this season, is by most perspectives, a lot worse. They're skiing powder in VT right now, through "penetrable" forest, and they aren't grunting through 4000+ vert of slide alder to get to it. <br><br>Anyway, as you can probably tell, I'm not at all upset that I'll be on a red-eye to NH in 2 days. <br> ;D

I guess what I really wanted to know is best found just by looking at the SNOTEL data, and realizing that WA is at 15% of normal snowpack for this season-not by asking people to rank the snow this season.

<br><br>The weather report on last night's news offered this:<br><br>Baker - 23% of snowpack<br>Steven's Pass - 30%<br>Snoqualmie Pass - 19%<br>White Pass - 0%

Ok, Juan, I won't debate about whether it's YOUR worst ski season ever. Bummer for you.<br><br>It's just not mine. <br><br>But as I noted in one of my replies, it certainly is the worst I've experienced since moving to WA. But your original post speaks of not skiing in 30 days, of pretty much bagging it for the season. You find my references to the NE amusing - I find giving up when there's still decent skiing to be had somewhat perplexing, but don't worry, I'll stop sunning on your parade.<br><br>edited to add - New England is a little more interesting for skiing than Nebraska - get out of town more often...

Straight from the horse's mouth <br><br>

<br>CLIMATOLOGICAL SNOWDEPTH INFORMATION<br>NORTHWEST WEATHER AND AVALANCHE CENTER SEATTLE WASHINGTON<br>DAY 1 MONTH 3 YEAR 2005 <br>WAZ012-017-018-019-025-042-ORZ011-<br><br>DATA IN INCHES, -99 DENOTES MISSING DATA<br><br> CURRENT CLIMATE PER CENT LAST THRU 2004 THRU 2004<br> DEPTH AVERAGE OF NORMAL YEAR MAX/YEAR MIN/YEAR<br><br>HURRICANE 20 86 23 93 163/1982 32/1981<br>MT BAKER 34 151 23 152 296/1999 48/1981<br>STEVENS 30 99 30 87 196/1956 30/1981<br>SNOQUALMIE 17 90 19 79 198/1956 20/1981<br>STAMPEDE 8 100 8 92 195/1969 21/1981<br>MISSION 13 46 28 53 85/1999 22/1991<br>CRYSTAL 18 65 28 84 133/1999 13/1981<br>PARADISE 43 158 27 176 276/1999 67/1977<br>WHITE PASS 0 57 0 68 115/1999 11/1977<br>TIMBERLINE 43 142 30 195 244/1999 37/1977<br>MEADOWS 30 120 25 135 245/1974 38/1981<br><br>SPECIAL NOTE : THE CRYSTAL STATION WAS MOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL SITE<br>TO THE PRESENT SITE AFTER THE 1980/81 SEASON. THE TIMBERLINE STATION<br>WAS MOVED FROM THE ORIGINAL SITE TO THE PRESENT SITE IN THE EARLY<br>1990'S. BOTH PRESENT SITES RECEIVE MORE SNOW THAN THE ORIGINAL SITES.<br>THEREFORE NEW RECORD MININMUMS ARE LIKELY AT NEARLY ALL SITES.<br><br>THIS TABLE PRODUCED ON THE 1ST AND 15TH BETWEEN 15 NOVEMBER AND 1 MAY.<br><br>AVERAGES, MAXIMUMS AND MINIMUMS EARLY IN THE SEASON MAY BE INACCURATE<br>DUE TO LIMITED DATA.<br><br>RECORDS BEGIN: HURRICANE 1979, MT BAKER 1926, STEVENS 1939,<br>SNOQUALMIE 1929, STAMPEDE 1943, MISSION RIDGE 1970,<br>CRYSTAL 1967, PARADISE 1926, WHITE PASS 1976,<br>TIMBERLINE 1973, MT HOOD MEADOWS 1974.<br>

<br><br>Yes, this season has sucked snowfall wise. Yes, I've skied some nice powder. I don't particularly like driving all the way up to Baker to do it, but I have several weekends this season after not skiing there the last two. My favorite place to ski in Washington during the winter is Snoqualmie Pass when there is snow, and I haven't done a single tour there this winter. That hurts. I can appreciate Sky's sentiment 'just climb higher and work harder', and I can appreciate Alan's 'some of us don't have that option'. I have been busier with work than I ever have, trying to finish my PhD, so the extra time required to get to good snow has been particularly troublesome, for me. YMMV.

hey, we're catching up. nice! 75% to go!

So now that's all settled, how about a little thread drift (it's on topic, I swear)? I saw no one and no tracks out on Ptarmigan ridge (by Baker ski area, out toward Coleman Pinnacle) on the Monday or Tuesday after Xmas, which as I vaguely recall was at least a few holiday/weekend days after the last snowfall. As usual, I pinched myself for my great fortune in living in a place where such a spot is "too much horizontal" for most people to travel to for a little nice skiing. Well, the Sunday before last was a totally different story. Asx noted by Alan, there were dense tracks all over Table Mountain, and there were so many tracks out near Coleman Pinnacle it looked like multiple heli-skiing operations had been running out there. <br><br>So what I'm pondering is, what was the difference between those dates? Baker and Paradise were the only super convenient drive-up skiing spots on both dates. The weather was similar. The snow was similar (actually, better right after Xmas - fresher powder and less wind effect). Ski resorts are generally more crowded during the holidays, so I'm assuming that people had at least as much "recreation time" available then. Did it just take a while for people to start getting "desperate" enough to head to Baker instead of stripping wallpaper? Did reports here on TAY (and perhaps the other sites) generate a wave of skiers all looking for the "sure thing" they were reading about on the web (compounded by word of mouth/networking by the readers of TAY)? <br><br>Whatever the case, the scene at Baker was clearly an indicator of the nastiness of the season. And I'm with Matt - I am missing exploring up at good old Snoqualmie by skis (but what they say is true - the snow is always crummy there - really! don't ever go there!). I'd definitely have more ski days in this season if that were a reasonable option (per my tradeoffs, which include approach/ski ratio considerations multiplied by a quality factor).

Wow, 0% at White Pass, crazy!

Jim,<br><br>I'm actually starting to get psyched for a nice tour to Coleman Pinnacle! One of my favorite hikes usually followed by some yo-yo skiing on the snowfield. This year I plan to ski the whole way for that nice rolling touring feeling.<br><br>I also see an opportunity to test the Rainbow, and this year it will be earlier than what I would have done.<br><br>And if I keep responding to this thread, I will lose my job and then have all the time in the world to make other trips as well. <br><br>But seriously, I am psyched to get on Ptarmigan Ridge.<br><br>Alan

Asx noted by Alan, there were dense tracks all over Table Mountain, and there were so many tracks out near Coleman Pinnacle it looked like multiple heli-skiing operations had been running out there. <br><br>So what I'm pondering is, what was the difference between those dates?  

<br><br>Could it be we've just gone through a longer dry spell now, than back at Christmas? (so more time for tracks to accumulate) I was in Rogers Pass last week, and popular spots there looked like a ski resort - no new snow in a couple of weeks.<br>

That could be the answer as it had been about a week since the last snow when I saw all the tracks verus just a long weekend on the pristine day. On the other hand, there was a holiday weekend between the Xmas snow and my track-free venture, and just one regular old weekend between the snow and my last venture. And the ski area was definitely getting heavy use over the holiday weekend, so it's not just that everyone was home playing their new xBox games. So my hunch is that there's more to the story.

I find it strange that the report shows 0% at White Pass, yet you can see snow at the road level on the DOT cam. <br><br>They also report 17" at Snoqualmie but they are lucky if there is actually 5" on the ground there. Not even Alpental has more then 6"-8" on the ground. <br><br>I was really hoping we would have at least a normal March, but the extended forcast is caling for clear and WARM weather with temps in the 60s. That should pretty much wipe out any snow that is currently at the resorts. I sure wish they would open up Cayuse at least. Opening Chinook would be nice too so I could at least have easy access to close hiking terrain (assuming there is enough snow there to get some turns in).

Did it just take a while for people to start getting "desperate" enough to head to Baker instead of stripping wallpaper? Did reports here on TAY (and perhaps the other sites) generate a wave of skiers all looking for the "sure thing" they were reading about on the web (compounded by word of mouth/networking by the readers of TAY)?

<br><br>I think TAY was largely responsible.<br><br>On February 8, ajjenkin and I broke trail out to Coleman Pinnacle. When we arrived, nobody had ventured beyond Point 5600+, which I believe locals call Ptarmigan Peak. This was on a Tuesday following a glorious weekend. A party of three followed our tracks out that same day. My trip report was vague about where we went.<br><br>On February 18, a TAY poster reported outstanding conditions on Ptarmigan Ridge. That opened the floodgates.<br>

How long does it realistically take to drive from Seattle to your stashes on Baker? I know I've asked this before but I forget the response. Central Oregon has pretty good skiing right now and I think it's about as far for me (3.5-3hrs) as Baker is for you, yet I consider it reserved for well-planned trips with predictable weather. Maybe I should reassess my driving willingness.<br><br>I have had a lot of quality skiing this winter but what I'm really concerned about is spring and early summer which is by far my favorite part of the ski season. So far I'm hoping I can compensating by taking a lot of trips to Shasta/Lassen -- which always has great skiing. It'll be interesting to bump this thread in 3 months to see how we're handling it then.

It takes me 2.5-3 hours from Woodinville to the Baker upper lot, depending on traffic and leadfoot. Decent dining in Bellingham on the way home takes a little of the sting out of it, and it is a pretty drive, but I've love to shorten the commute.<br><br>In 3 months, I fear I may well be focusing any trip reporting on www.wta.org . <br><br>

Day 33 today and counting. Bad ski season, sure. What are you going to do about it, complain to everyone on the internet and sit on the couch? Fine by me, seems everyone is leaving what little goods there are for me. This NE'er sees snow on the ground, and that means skiing. Anyone who wants perfect ski conditions should buy a lift ticket. Backcountry skiing means you have to pay your dues. Complaining is irritating and why I don't ski at ski areas. Get a bunch of people together and they feel entitled to good snow.<br><br>And Lowell, you got that right. Haven't seen much from me this winter on TAY 'cause I like my stashes of powder just the way they are - untouched. I learned my lesson talking about how good mt Catherine was the first year I was living here. And then reading about people complaining that the snow wasn't as good as they heard (as if skiing at 2 pm was the same as 7 am at snoq pass). The internet is NOT your friend if you want snow to yourself. Keep your mouth shut and enjoy!<br><br>Thanks, pessimists, keep up the good work and go golfing!

I sympathize with juan and the others who see the glass as half empty. I think the difference between respondents in this thread often depends on how much free time and flexibility they have. If you're constrained, the loss of close-in, quick turnaround skiing (and lift skiing too!) hurts more than if you're able to go almost anywhere almost anytime. We can't just cast off those constraints (family, job, other commitments). For a lot of people, I suspect, skiing is no longer the central focus of their lives, but it's still darn important, and in our complex lives we have learned to find "chinks" where a ski day can be wedged. A year like this makes it a lot tougher to find those chinks.<br><br>In my historical reading, I have been struck by the sense of wonder that the writers in the 1920s expressed for winter recreation. It was something very new, and previously winter was regarded (as we all know) as a very dreary time for people in the Northwest. I have a sense that we are experiencing the opposite--we're getting a taste of what it would be like to lose our winters. And it makes me wonder about the future, when I read some of the predictions about what may happen to Northwest snowpacks in the next century. <br>

What are you going to do about it, complain to everyone on the internet and sit on the couch?

<br>I don't think we're exactly complaining. We're discussing a disappointing situation, I find this therapeutic and useful; it helps to get other perspectives. No one here is sitting on the couch, you can tell that from TRs. <br><br>

Anyone who wants perfect ski conditions should buy a lift ticket.

<br>Hmm, I generally find better skiing condition in the backcountry then at a resort . . <br><br>

Complaining is irritating

<br>I mean no offense, but if you find complaining irritating, why are you complaining in your post?<br><br>

Haven't seen much from me this winter on TAY 'cause I like my stashes of powder just the way they are - untouched.

<br>I'll be glad to tell you and anyone else in precise detail the exact locations of where I find quality snow around Mt Hood. I appreciate it when others do the same, doing so allows me to more efficiently use my limited time in the backcountry. Seeing other skiers and tracks is not the end of the world, and most winters a tracked slope doesn't last that long. Selfishness is not a good quality. YMMV<br>

[quote author=MW88888888 Get a bunch of people together and they feel entitled to good snow.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I hardly need others to help me feel entitled to good snow. Alas, this may be my problem. <br><br>I've been chasing snow for the last 10 years, and it just hurts is all. All complaining aside, I just live for the white room, and I wait all spring, summer and fall for a chance to step into it. When winter comes and we dont get it, I just get bummed.<br><br>I'm certainly not sitting on my couch and crying in my milk, but recycled pow aint the same, and corn aint the same. No place like the white room.<br>

Haven't seen much from me this winter on TAY 'cause I like my stashes of powder just the way they are - untouched.

<br><br>MW8 I feel for you. I kinda felt the same way. And for the same reasons you stated I to have held off from writing tr's. But after frequenting this site for a few years I have come to certain realizations. Riding your own stashes year in and out is sure fun but then what. What good are powder stashes if you always keep them to yourself. I'm learning part of the buzz is taking someone somewhere new and feeding off their energy of being there for the first time. Also I'm a firm believer of what comes around goes around. Show me yours and I'll show you mine. Stashes that is. ;D

Lowell - as I drive at 70 on a 6 lane highway to skiing/hiking/climbing that is w/in an hour of my home, I sometimes marvel at the investment in travel time those pioneers put in to get to the goods. Clearly they made travel/approach tradeoffs that are even more significant that Sky's to get in any outings. They must have seen the travel as part of the fun (the oral history book, I think it's called Cascade Voices, has some entertaining tavel stories that seem to back this up). I think we have a different relationship to the "getting to the trailhead" portion of our trips these days. I at least try to get my head more in their space when I remember to think of them. The travel can be fun - it's partly about choosing how to view it. And again, it's partly about tradeoffs and luck. Alan seems to envy my ability to take frequent full weekend days. I'm assuming he has kids who "tie him down," which I sometimes envy. But I've made a choice I fully accept.<br><br>Juan - what about the green room? I hear it's even more seductive than the white room. For me, I'm pretty happy as long as I'm not dealing with the kind of crust that cuts your face when you faceplant. Simple pleasures for simple minds.

Blaming the posting of TAY TRs for a rash of tracks on Ptarmigan Ridge is kind of silly. As we have nearly all discovered, the general Baker area is one of only about three viable options this year for not destroying your bases, and Table/Ptarmigan is the most obvious tour in the Baker area. Each sliver of the ski community here whether online (TAY/CC/SnowboardSeattle/PowderMag) or conventional (dudes that work at Feathered Friends and their friends of friends, BoeAlps) each has their own reporting system of some type and word gets out. The only people you're necessarily un-informing is our immediate community; the other communities may or may not read TAY, and may or may not have made the same discoveries you have, etc etc. Oh and BTW, cmon people this is Baker. Look at the tracks esp in close and note how many are snowboard tracks with boot tracks heading out (I am pretty sure most of OUR boarders have got split by now ). It shares a parking lot with a ski area, and every person that's ever ridden up C1 can SEE the tracks over there and know that it has and can be skied and they'd like to go there some time, and they didn't have to go to the internet to figure that out. It goes with the territory. <br>I'll grant that this is a sliding scale. I won't begrudge anyone that doesn't post TRs for anything that's not in Burgdorfer's, or for lines that they themselves plan to return to in less than a couple days even if it is in Burgdorfers.

Wolfs - agree with you that snowboarders who hike are accounting for a lot of the tracks on Table (and the ski area policy of requiring avy equipment and knowledge paired with their seminars is likely incenting folks to expand their range way beyond booting a little bit up Shuksan Arm), but not on the tracks out toward Coleman Pinnacle which are not boot tracks. And if it were just for tips at a ski shop or a guidebook, then I don't see why Xmas versus now would be any different - my theory is that there was a bit of a triggering event (or events) here. I'll grant that there are other networks than TAY that are getting the word out, but read The Tipping Point and ponder the impact of the "connectors" - the folks who read multiple reports about Baker on TAY and connect that info to these other networks. It's not that absurd a hypothesis that TAY had a big impact here. But it's just a hypothesis - it would be hard to prove one way or another.

At least one of the triggering events was the snow pattern on 2/4-5/05, one of the last days it actually snowed. On that day everything north of Stevens got 12 inches or more of nice light snow and only a little wind. Everything south got a few inches of wet stuff and more wind. I still ended up going south a couple times myself anyways, but went north eventually because I remembered that pattern. Prior to that date the north-south split wasn't as distinct. The following storm on 2/12-13/05 might have been similar.