Crystal Mountain - General

I have been trying not to write this for a couple seasons now.  After yesterday (Friday), I can't help myself.  In the state of Washington, it is illegal to back up more than 5 cars behind you.  Yesterday, one driver on 410 between 7:30 and 8:00am had 40 cars stuck behind them.  It's OK if you are not comfortable driving on roads that have been plowed and de-iced, yet still have a little snow on them.  However, please look in your rearview mirror and use one of multiple turnouts to let other drivers around you.  You are going to cause accidents by people trying to pass you or a long string of cars.  If your car isn't set up properly for mountain driving, fix it.  I'd suggest either front wheel drive or better yet, AWD with a good set of snow tires like Blizzaks.  It will be safer for you as well as everyone else on the road with you.  And, your rearview mirrors are there for a reason...please use them.  Thank you.

OK, let the s-storm begin.

Well said Chris!!! If only we could put this on a Washdot. reader board heading out of
Enumscratch

ALL the roads have gotten a lot worse since this latest growth spurt in Seattle. I90 closed more last year due to spin outs then Avy control (ok I lied, I just checked the WSDOT stats). But it seemed that way.

Perhaps my point is analogous to our author, why are people driving when they are scared and not properly set up for winter driving? Stay home please.

On Friday as I was driving up early (in my front wheel drive car with brand new snow tires that is almost unstoppable right now) I was following a 4by down the North Bend hill towards exit 31. In front of him was a pick up, kinda low rider looking with big shiny chrome rims and tires that clearly sucked as the next thing you know brakes on as we watch him just start to spin for no reason at all. Yes, snow on the road but no ice since it was so cold. Ridiculous.

But worse and also noted by our author, putting everyone else in danger. Me and the 4by easily avoided him as he sat there sideways on eastbound I90. But that is how a chain reaction accident happens.

Please stay off the roads.

I feel your pain, but who are y'all talking to?  Those idiot drivers are not reading this website.  And even if they were, they have so little common sense, your "advice" wouldn't register.  But if it makes you feel better.....

I feel your pain, but who are y'all talking to?  Those idiot drivers are not reading this website.  And even if they were, they have so little common sense, your "advice" wouldn't register.  But if it makes you feel better.....

Yes, this only personally cathartic. I know no one is listening.

Great thoughts. I have been driving 410 to Crystal for a long time and I agree. Snow tires and some commen sense go a long way. Thursday night I found my self behind 6 cars and a very slow UPS truck. I waited for the long straight just below Federation Forest and I safely passed everyone and continued at the posted speed limit. WSP was also in that line and decided he needed to talk to me. He said it is only legal to pass "one car at a time". I thought to myself, that is what I did. I was sure I was getting a ticket for something. I am now on my way to get several lotto tickets.

Thanks to all of those who are doing it right.

Stoked you didn't get some stupid trumped up ticket!
One at a time, fuuuuck whatever wsp.

Avicontrol, did you ask the dullard WSP why he didn't pull over the lead car for delaying more than 5 cars? Glad you didn't get a ticket! Hopefully, everyone will be back at work tomorrow and we'll have a leisurely (at the limit) drive up on Monday.

Fully agree that drivers need to pay more attention to what's behind them as well. Of course, while driving back down Crystal Mtn. Rd. yesterday I did crack a smile when the agro pickup driver who had been passing cars one after the other lost control and slammed into the uphill guardrail just before Hwy 410 not more than 30 seconds after passing me.

I will also be devils advocate here.

I have found myself going 5mph over the speed limit when the road is "questionable" with snow or ice. And guess what? I still have had people behind me for 5-10 people at times.

Yes, I will pull off, when it is reasonable at those speeds.

However, if you are going way over the speed limit because you want to be the first in line at the bucket, or because you drive this route everyday and are sick of the time it takes you....lighten up to those of us even going slightly over the stated speed limit.

"I was driving to a go skiing on a Friday and it took me a few minutes longer because some ill-prepared or inexperienced drivers were going slower than me".... First world problem right there.

I drive 410 every day.
There are a lot of slow, ill-prepared and inexperienced  drivers but there are equally  too many fast and aggressive drivers.
The aggressive drivers eventually cause way more problems than the newbies as eventually they crash and cause major blockages or loss of life.

Everybody of course thinks they are in the middle and driving at exactly the right speed.

I was an aggressive driver and would seethe and rant and get myself all worked up... to what avail?

Eventually I decided to calm the fuck down and accept it as it comes.

At busy times( and Friday is the new Saturday) its almost impossible to drive to the ski area without a line of cars behind you..
The majority of drivers imo drive too fast and too close and don't take into account the possibility of an elk on the road.
There are also very few plowed areas to pull over and let cars pass.... and the slowing down to pull over would probably cause more delays and back ups.
Take a deep breathe.
You're skiing on a Friday!!!!
Not everybody is as perfect a human being as you!

^^^ Your point was well written until you trolled at the end. No one was suggesting superiority, or certainly I was not.

My point was putting other people in danger because you are ill prepared to drive the snow filled road. My story involved a truck spinning out going straight down a 4 lane highway. Do you consider that acceptable behaviour??

I wasn't complaining about speed. But going 25 when all other traffic is flowing at 55 is dangerous any time and exacerbated on snow.

That is the key. Making it dangerous for "middle of the road" driving because one is going at 50% of average.

And no I am not aggro. I too mellowed out in 1988 when teaching full time at Crystal. No reason to pass when a mile down the road there us someone else moving much too slow.

Actually my comments were directed at the OP but whatever.
Mathematics is the key.

Lets assume shit gets real in GW.
GW to Crystal turn-off= 16.3 miles
Boulevard= 6 miles

Lets assume snow/icy road conditions.
At speed limit: Confident driver who can afford good SUV and expensive snow tires; retired, season pass holder with extensive Hawaiian shirt collection.
16.3  miles at 55 mph=17.78 minutes.
6  miles at 35 mph=10.28 minutes
Total=28.06 minutes.

At 10 mph below speed limit: Cautious/inexperienced driver who can only afford a Honda Civic and has a carload of children and has worked long hours to afford a very special , expensive ski day with his/her kids.
16.3 miles at 45 mph= 21.73mins
6  miles at 25 mph= 14.4 mins
Total=36.13 minutes

Delta=8.07 minutes!

Rather than use the 8.07 minutes in angst and frustration at your fellow commuter, use them to contemplate the days skiing ahead and meditate on the joy of life.

LOL. How you made this a commentary on socialism and class warfare and not safe driving is really funny.

I think we all should have the exact same car, a very small electric car that can max go 45 (cause when there is snow on the ground there is NO WAY any car can go faster than 45 no matter what). Then we all can ponder the joys of skiing while going slowly together to the mountains. 

Addendum - and just in case, no...........my snow car is a 2003 Saab with 180,000 miles on it and new Michelin snow tires that I financed. Don't have an expensive 4by, can't afford it with 2 kids at college.

I also have a 1998 Lincoln Continental with front wheel drive and traction control that I inherited. But even with good snow tires and my 30 years of teaching skiing and driving in the mountains that car should NOT be in the snow.

I don't take that car out cause it would be dangerous to me and more importantly, those around me.

Scotsman, the voice of reason. Relax people.

Aaahhhh….what a topic…first off this should not have Crystal in the title…pretty much as noted by others this problem occurs on other roads leading to the mountains…this post should have started in the general folder…Oh well, for some background, I’ve been driving to Crystal since the early 80’s…I used to one of those very aggressive drivers that always needed to hopscotch through the line up of cars going to “slowly”.  But as my testosterone diminished with old age (and my continued desire to live a relatively long life) I mellowed into certain views…1) After pulling onto 410 in Enumclaw (I live up Renton way) I figured my parking space at Crystal was pretty much locked in,  2) I head to the mountain way to early on weekdays (and even earlier when I ski on weekends) so that I can mellow out peacefully in the lodge prepping for another great day skiing, 3) I got a 4 wheel truck so I don’t have to put on chains (remember when folks had to put on chains every time it snowed anywhere from Mud Mt. to the Blvd?) and the truck gives enough traction to keep moving (but will not stop me any faster than the unprepared rear wheel drive cars), 4)  I don’t speed through Greenwater (anybody that does 45 through GW and cant do 55 anywhere else really does not make very happy, mainly when the road is bare and at most wet),  5) I do pay attention for ELK in all the “normal” areas, but lately those big rats have been showing up in unexpected areas.  Haven’t had to drive on snow very often in the last few years, so getting used to slower commutes to Crystal are okay (epically as noted the time differential is pretty minimal – have to drive to Portland to get any real time savings and then it still is not significant enough to really mater).

I can still be a to aggressive driver in the low lands, hate the current lack of brains of the current drivers that are not courteous to others, tail gate (has happened a lot on 410 recently), F-around with dang cell phones, don’t know the rules of the road,  cant get out of the left lane on multi lane roads, school bus drivers (new one on the route through Black Diamond recently, but I should not have included this one probably). Increased traffic, ever more traffic lights, driving to Stevens or Alpy (scary drivers everywhere)…Ahh life…Oh well, long winded wordy comment as usual and as Ms. Ferk said to me on the drive down Sunday at 2:30 in the afternoon and we slowed to 25 for unknown reasons in a way to big of a back up….”Chill out Dan”…good advise! May all be save and “sane” on the roads this winter which is looking very happy.

This thread was a good fun read with plenty of wit and of course road wisdom. Living on the east slope of the mountains and driving Hwy 12 makes me feel fortunate compared to the drive to Crystal. In fact drivers have become much better at handling the winter conditions compared to ten years ago when there were always a few spinouts and ditch accidents on the hwy. I think everyone learned that all wheel drive does not equal invincibility. Hwy 12 has been known to wash out and be impassable at certain times, none the less a quality road and drive up to powder heaven.

OK, I started this conversation which I knew would result in responses both positive and negative. Thanks everyone for weighing in. Griff, yes it was cathartic writing it. ddk, the only reason I put Crystal in the title is that I don't drive to the Summit or Stevens and figured the multi lane highway to the Summit didn't have the same issues. Of course, Stevens has all those small burrows to drive through...

Scotsman, I really appreciated both your posts. The first reminded me how fortunate I am to be retired and have the financial resources to go skiing any time I want. However, I really appreciated your second post. You see, I have a math degree and the other night, I did a quick calculation in my head of the differences in times between speed limit driving, and a slower day and realized the amount of time was negligible. After reading your second post, I could almost see you drop the mike.

With that said, be careful out there and BE PREPARED.

I like it when I'm driving 5-10 over and some idiot is tailgating me and makes a dangerous and/or aggro pass and then I pull into the lot 20 seconds after they do and park next to them. "Nice pass, dumbass" or "Wow, you're pretty good driver" they usually pretend they can't hear me or won't get out of their car until I'm booted up and heading for the lift.

The basic problem are too many of us now going to Crystal, or other areas!  From my early days in the late 60's with a Crystal pass when the pop in Puget SOund was about 1.5 mil going to Crystal was more plesant vs today with our 3.9 mil, pop.  Now with more people here, more wealth, retirees, better equipment and lifts, the end results are more traffic difficulties getting there, and big lines for gettig first tracks that are quickly gone.  I do appreciate Crystal adding new lifts over the years, but going to Whistler seems a better option given good exchange rate, huge mountain, short lift lines, great food, and a good highway with traffic that moves, unless it is 4pm Sunday to Van!

Well said

That drive up & down the southern resort's lil 2 lane roads is so purdy.

Being retired, the only way I have of keeping track of the days is garbage day on tuesday. If taking out the garbage conflicts with getting to first tracks ,first chair or powder skiing then I have a 1st world problem.