April 19, 2008, Mt. Herman avalanche/ lost gear
4/19/08
15334
23
Ive been an occasional lurker on TAY but have never posted here. I thought that Id de-lurk to share my groups experience from yesterday, which resulted in me going for an unexpected ride and some lost gear- and fortunately nothing more. I feel that we didnt give proper consideration to some warning signs leading up to this event, and Id like to use this as a learning experience to inform future decision-making. Id welcome any comments or constructive criticism. Apologies for the long-ish post.
My party of four left the upper lot at Baker at about 9:30 yesterday morning, under overcast skies, with temperatures around 25F. NWAC was reporting moderate danger above 6000 ft, and low below, with some new cold snow on top of a crust from the warm temps earlier in the week. We intended to be back at our rig by about 12:30, so we hooked on to a skin track heading up the southeast side of Mt Herman. On our way up, we watched a couple of skiers making turns down some moderate terrain. At the bottom of their run, we chatted briefly with these guys, who said that they had ski cut some steeper slopes with nothing sliding. Several other groups were making their way up the same skin track. Pole probes on the way up showed the crust layer was beneath about 8-12 inches of new-ish, reasonably light snow.
We followed the skin track up to a ridgeline at about 5,500 feet of elevation, where we had the option of dropping down a south aspect towards Table Mountain, or the southeast aspect we had just come up, towards the Mt Baker ski area. We chose to do the latter, intending to ski a slope that Id guess was about 30 degrees for 50-75 feet, mellowing to 25 degrees or so after that, beginning with a rollover from the flat ridgeline.
I dropped in first, making a hard right-to-left turn. This is what caused the slide to break loose. I noticed it right away to my right side, initially thinking that it was slough from my turn. Instantly, however, the entire slope beneath me began moving. I would describe it as a slow-moving slab, traveling at a slightly slower pace than I was skiing. My right ski came off almost instantly, but I managed to keep my feet, standing on my remaining ski and trying to angle left and away from the fall line. After about 30-40 feet, my ski caught and I began sliding headfirst on my chest, at the left flank of the slide. At this point, the portion of the slide carrying me began to slow as the main mass of snow slid to my right. I came to a stop at the surface near a cluster of medium sized trees. The slide ran for about 150-200 feet, and I was carried 75-100 feet. The crown was about 12 inches deep and 30 to 40 feet wide.
I signaled to my group, who had been able to see me the entire time that I was ok, and they began making their way down the ridgeline to cross over to me at a lower-angle spot. As they were heading down the ridge, one of them triggered another, much more fast moving slab that ran well to my right for about 300-400 feet. I am not sure exactly where they were when the second slide occurred, other than that they were heading down the ridgeline. This slide was of similar depth and width as the first. When they reached me, we probed for my ski and one of my poles, without success, and then made our way down and out without further incident.
I feel that we did not fully appreciate how quickly the sun was affecting the snow we were on. At the point where the slide occurred, it had been intermittently sunny for about 20-25 minutes. We noticed some small snow rollers coming off our skin track as we reached our high point, and discussed that it was warming up, but mainly in terms of needing to move quickly, not in terms of skiing a lower angle or more shaded slope. The ridge did not seem wind-affected. We failed to appreciate that as we move more into spring, solar radiation becomes more intense and thus changes conditions more rapidly, making our chosen line choice a poor one.
I would say that I have a moderate amount of backcountry experience, but Im still fairly new. Everyone in my group had taken at least a Level I avy class within the last several years. I think that classes and books give a good foundation for rescue skills and safe travel techniques, but it takes experience to develop a solid ability to evaluate the range of conditions that we experience in the Cascades and elsewhere. I want to make sure that Im taking home the right message from this event, so Id appreciate if yall would consider chiming in. While I did not get buried, I certainly could have been, and I would prefer not to repeat the experience.
Oh, and if anyone encounters a lonely BD flicklock pole and a K2 Antipiste ski with BD01 bindings up on Herman as things begin to melt out, please email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Thanks,
Eric
My party of four left the upper lot at Baker at about 9:30 yesterday morning, under overcast skies, with temperatures around 25F. NWAC was reporting moderate danger above 6000 ft, and low below, with some new cold snow on top of a crust from the warm temps earlier in the week. We intended to be back at our rig by about 12:30, so we hooked on to a skin track heading up the southeast side of Mt Herman. On our way up, we watched a couple of skiers making turns down some moderate terrain. At the bottom of their run, we chatted briefly with these guys, who said that they had ski cut some steeper slopes with nothing sliding. Several other groups were making their way up the same skin track. Pole probes on the way up showed the crust layer was beneath about 8-12 inches of new-ish, reasonably light snow.
We followed the skin track up to a ridgeline at about 5,500 feet of elevation, where we had the option of dropping down a south aspect towards Table Mountain, or the southeast aspect we had just come up, towards the Mt Baker ski area. We chose to do the latter, intending to ski a slope that Id guess was about 30 degrees for 50-75 feet, mellowing to 25 degrees or so after that, beginning with a rollover from the flat ridgeline.
I dropped in first, making a hard right-to-left turn. This is what caused the slide to break loose. I noticed it right away to my right side, initially thinking that it was slough from my turn. Instantly, however, the entire slope beneath me began moving. I would describe it as a slow-moving slab, traveling at a slightly slower pace than I was skiing. My right ski came off almost instantly, but I managed to keep my feet, standing on my remaining ski and trying to angle left and away from the fall line. After about 30-40 feet, my ski caught and I began sliding headfirst on my chest, at the left flank of the slide. At this point, the portion of the slide carrying me began to slow as the main mass of snow slid to my right. I came to a stop at the surface near a cluster of medium sized trees. The slide ran for about 150-200 feet, and I was carried 75-100 feet. The crown was about 12 inches deep and 30 to 40 feet wide.
I signaled to my group, who had been able to see me the entire time that I was ok, and they began making their way down the ridgeline to cross over to me at a lower-angle spot. As they were heading down the ridge, one of them triggered another, much more fast moving slab that ran well to my right for about 300-400 feet. I am not sure exactly where they were when the second slide occurred, other than that they were heading down the ridgeline. This slide was of similar depth and width as the first. When they reached me, we probed for my ski and one of my poles, without success, and then made our way down and out without further incident.
I feel that we did not fully appreciate how quickly the sun was affecting the snow we were on. At the point where the slide occurred, it had been intermittently sunny for about 20-25 minutes. We noticed some small snow rollers coming off our skin track as we reached our high point, and discussed that it was warming up, but mainly in terms of needing to move quickly, not in terms of skiing a lower angle or more shaded slope. The ridge did not seem wind-affected. We failed to appreciate that as we move more into spring, solar radiation becomes more intense and thus changes conditions more rapidly, making our chosen line choice a poor one.
I would say that I have a moderate amount of backcountry experience, but Im still fairly new. Everyone in my group had taken at least a Level I avy class within the last several years. I think that classes and books give a good foundation for rescue skills and safe travel techniques, but it takes experience to develop a solid ability to evaluate the range of conditions that we experience in the Cascades and elsewhere. I want to make sure that Im taking home the right message from this event, so Id appreciate if yall would consider chiming in. While I did not get buried, I certainly could have been, and I would prefer not to repeat the experience.
Oh, and if anyone encounters a lonely BD flicklock pole and a K2 Antipiste ski with BD01 bindings up on Herman as things begin to melt out, please email me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
Thanks,
Eric
Wow, how did your ski come off with the 01s? Do you run low preload? I wouldn't expect those bindings to come off, I have the same and they seem to fit very securely. Glad to hear you're OK. The sun affects the powder very quickly this time of year, turning light snow to slabby mashed potatoes in minutes even at relatively cool temps of 15-20F.
Wow! Glad you're alright! Is this you? http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=9817.0
What is usually important at this time of year with new snow over a buried crust is the penetration of radiation (especially longwave) to the crust. This radiation can cause an almost instantaneous loss of adhesion or bonding at the crust. This seems true especially for crusts that are buried less than about 18"-24" (which is usually the case in spring). Often the snow surface can, for a period of time, remain dry because of atmospheric effects. What seems to happen is that the radiation doesn't affect low density dry snow as much as it affects old wet snow or melt-freeze crusts. So, the radiation absorbtion is concentrated at the crust (which has a different radiation absorption spectrum than dry snow). Now the other point that goes along with this is that the weakest bonding and highest stresses are concentrated also at the crust so even a small amount of radiation usually destroys the bond at the crust (often even before the surface of the overlying new snow becomes noticeably damp). That is what I think usually happens.
So the keys are that there is a crust in the spring not buried very deeply (usually the case) and that there is solar radiation - pretty much a given after latter February and especially on aspects other than north. The fact that it is often cloudy or partially cloudy in cold weather in the spring (unstable atmosphere) enhances the effect of longwave radiation. All aspects are usually affected with cloudy skies in spring, all but north aspects if the sky is clear. In clear skies it is mainly UV radiation that does the damage.
I think what stood out to me in this tale was the south or southeast aspect. In the spring that's almost a guarantee to see new snow instability on crusts.
So the keys are that there is a crust in the spring not buried very deeply (usually the case) and that there is solar radiation - pretty much a given after latter February and especially on aspects other than north. The fact that it is often cloudy or partially cloudy in cold weather in the spring (unstable atmosphere) enhances the effect of longwave radiation. All aspects are usually affected with cloudy skies in spring, all but north aspects if the sky is clear. In clear skies it is mainly UV radiation that does the damage.
I think what stood out to me in this tale was the south or southeast aspect. In the spring that's almost a guarantee to see new snow instability on crusts.
From the NWAC avy report this AM:
"There were no reports of slab avalanches to the NWAC from
the ski areas or on the Turns All Year web site for
Saturday. Some triggered point release powder snow
avalanches on steeper slopes were reported from near the
Mt Baker ski area."
Given my post yesterday, it's interesting that the NWAC didn't consider this to be a slab avalanche. Is this due to some hypertechnical definition? It sure sounds like a slab to me. Any thoughts?
"There were no reports of slab avalanches to the NWAC from
the ski areas or on the Turns All Year web site for
Saturday. Some triggered point release powder snow
avalanches on steeper slopes were reported from near the
Mt Baker ski area."
Given my post yesterday, it's interesting that the NWAC didn't consider this to be a slab avalanche. Is this due to some hypertechnical definition? It sure sounds like a slab to me. Any thoughts?
Yes, that was me that Ash posted about yesterday.
I'm not sure why my binding popped off so easily, but it felt like a fluke thing to me. I pretty much have them set up per the factory recommendations, which feels fairly tight to me. I have noticed that they need readjusting every so often; I think that the cartridges must rotate a bit on their own during use. They were tight yesterday though, so it seemed weird to me. I feel like I may have been able to ski to the side had my ski stayed on. As it was, I got close before I got tripped up.
Interesting post re the differential solar effects on crust versus low-density snow, Gary. What you describe certainly agrees with what I saw. The newer snow still felt fairly light. It definitely was warming up a bit, as evidenced by the small pinwheels we saw, but this seemed to be just at the very surface. The second slide kicked up a noticeable plume of powder as it raced downslope.
This is helpful. Thanks, folks.
Eric
I'm not sure why my binding popped off so easily, but it felt like a fluke thing to me. I pretty much have them set up per the factory recommendations, which feels fairly tight to me. I have noticed that they need readjusting every so often; I think that the cartridges must rotate a bit on their own during use. They were tight yesterday though, so it seemed weird to me. I feel like I may have been able to ski to the side had my ski stayed on. As it was, I got close before I got tripped up.
Interesting post re the differential solar effects on crust versus low-density snow, Gary. What you describe certainly agrees with what I saw. The newer snow still felt fairly light. It definitely was warming up a bit, as evidenced by the small pinwheels we saw, but this seemed to be just at the very surface. The second slide kicked up a noticeable plume of powder as it raced downslope.
This is helpful. Thanks, folks.
Eric
Re: stability yesterday (4/19)
In the Tatoosh on north-ish aspects around Unicon Saddle, we found very low density new snow on top of a hard crust - I likened it to powdered sugar on glass.
Though the bond to the crust was not very strong, the new snow had virtually no cohesion, and thus was not behaving like a slab. We got numerous sluffs to run, but weren't worried about slab releases...
EXCEPT where there were wind drifts.
(This was also mentioned in the NWAC discussion, which was spot-on as usual - nice work!)
We managed to pop loose a sensitive, small slab on a steep, wind-loaded knob, but the release was confined to the wind-loaded area, and did not propagate beyond.
As the day wore on, we could feel the new snow changing, and setting up slightly.
Though this actually improved the skiing, we became more slab-wary later in the day.
It never ceases to amaze me how much solar radiation can come through clouds, given the springtime sun angles - even while it is dumping snow!
When it's cloudy, the clouds absorb the incoming solar shortwave, and re-emit longwave, feeding the process Gary describes above. Watch out when there is a thin cloud cover, as the incoming solar is minimally blocked, the clouds emit longwave, and also block outgoing longwave from the snow - raising snow surface temperatures quickly.
So considering the 4 ingredients required for a slab avalanche - Slope, Slab, Weak Layer, Trigger - the process Gary describes directly affects the strength of the Weak Layer (in this case a layer interface), while we saw changes in Slab properties.
Conditions change quickly in the spring!!!
Thanks for the report, Eric - glad you weren't hurt!
Jeff
In the Tatoosh on north-ish aspects around Unicon Saddle, we found very low density new snow on top of a hard crust - I likened it to powdered sugar on glass.
Though the bond to the crust was not very strong, the new snow had virtually no cohesion, and thus was not behaving like a slab. We got numerous sluffs to run, but weren't worried about slab releases...
EXCEPT where there were wind drifts.
(This was also mentioned in the NWAC discussion, which was spot-on as usual - nice work!)
We managed to pop loose a sensitive, small slab on a steep, wind-loaded knob, but the release was confined to the wind-loaded area, and did not propagate beyond.
As the day wore on, we could feel the new snow changing, and setting up slightly.
Though this actually improved the skiing, we became more slab-wary later in the day.
It never ceases to amaze me how much solar radiation can come through clouds, given the springtime sun angles - even while it is dumping snow!
When it's cloudy, the clouds absorb the incoming solar shortwave, and re-emit longwave, feeding the process Gary describes above. Watch out when there is a thin cloud cover, as the incoming solar is minimally blocked, the clouds emit longwave, and also block outgoing longwave from the snow - raising snow surface temperatures quickly.
So considering the 4 ingredients required for a slab avalanche - Slope, Slab, Weak Layer, Trigger - the process Gary describes directly affects the strength of the Weak Layer (in this case a layer interface), while we saw changes in Slab properties.
Conditions change quickly in the spring!!!
Thanks for the report, Eric - glad you weren't hurt!
Jeff
I was out skiing by myself when I came across your avy. Sorry to hear about the slide and the lost gear. I have a pair of anti-pistes mounted with Pures and love them for powder skiing. A couple of points. That section of the ridge is notorious for getting wind loaded. I have been skiing Baker backcountry since '84 and have rarely rolled over the top of the slope where you entered in. Only in the most stable conditions do we drop that slope over the top. Because of the topography, the wind tends to really load up there and roll in the snow. Now I have never taken an avy course so I am not the best source, but I was out on Hermann from 7 am that morning and noticed some wind loading. It seems to me to be a simple case of a wind slab releasing. Today from across the valley I saw the two points of each release. The section of the ridge where you entered in was at least 45% or better with no support. You could have skied just as steep in several places in the backcountry, in fact Toby and I did later that day and been allright. You just nailed a notoriously bad wind loaded slope at the worst spot to enter. A good lesson and good luck getting your ski back.
Eric-
We were skinning up to the Blueberry chutes and watched both releases yesterday.
I'm glad to know you and the rest of you group were ok, we wondered how everyone had fared.
We were skinning up to the Blueberry chutes and watched both releases yesterday.
I'm glad to know you and the rest of you group were ok, we wondered how everyone had fared.
Thanks for the post -- glad you're allright.
FYI for those O1s, they definitely have the cartridge bindings curse of unscrewing themselves -- try a little teflon tape around the threads and see if that helps keep them in place.
FYI for those O1s, they definitely have the cartridge bindings curse of unscrewing themselves -- try a little teflon tape around the threads and see if that helps keep them in place.
We had a similar incident on the south side of Mt. Snoqualmie on Saturday. A skier set off a slow moving slough slide that caught 2 people, one got carried 60-75 feet and stopped herself by grabbing onto a tree as the slide went by. The other was standing next to a tree and got his legs covered. The crown was probably 10-12 inches and 40 feet across and slid to the basin floor about 300 feet below. Luckily nobody was hurt, but it was amazing as to how fast it happened and how heavy that snow was. We apparently didn't fully realize the effects of the sun and the interface between the crust layer and the new powder.
And my BD flicklock pole was buried as well and is MIA.
And my BD flicklock pole was buried as well and is MIA.
Gregg,
Thanks for your post and your pictures. I was wishing that we had taken some. It looks like the second was taken very near to the spot I dropped in. I'm not sure, but it looks like the first pic shows the second crown, and just a bit of the crown from the first slide at the right side of the shot.
I would certainly defer to experience regarding your assessment of conditions, especially since you were at the same spot that day or the next. It does look like there's a bit more snow on the windward side of the trees in the first pic, and I do agree that that is a likely spot for wind loading.
However, I still feel like the place I dropped in at wasn't wind loaded. I didn't notice any obvious differences in texture, snow depth, eddie marks, etc at that spot. I guess that I'm concerned that we missed something that should have been an obvious red flag. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm still reasonably new to BC travel. I've come across wind loading in the BC on plenty of other trips, and feel as though I can recognize it. I definitely have not encountered the entire range of possible conditions, so I'm doubting my read a bit right now.
I'm curious: could sun effects mask some of the signs of wind loading? The other thing that is interesting to me is that the second slide behaved much differently than the first. The one I triggered was relatively slow moving, while the second moved very rapidly, and traveled a large distance. The crowns were close enough together that they intersected, and the slope, aspect, and crown width and depth were roughly similar. I know conditions can vary quite a bit locally, but this is interesting nonetheless.
This certainly has been, and continues to be, a good learning experience. Thanks again for the posts.
Thanks for your post and your pictures. I was wishing that we had taken some. It looks like the second was taken very near to the spot I dropped in. I'm not sure, but it looks like the first pic shows the second crown, and just a bit of the crown from the first slide at the right side of the shot.
I would certainly defer to experience regarding your assessment of conditions, especially since you were at the same spot that day or the next. It does look like there's a bit more snow on the windward side of the trees in the first pic, and I do agree that that is a likely spot for wind loading.
However, I still feel like the place I dropped in at wasn't wind loaded. I didn't notice any obvious differences in texture, snow depth, eddie marks, etc at that spot. I guess that I'm concerned that we missed something that should have been an obvious red flag. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm still reasonably new to BC travel. I've come across wind loading in the BC on plenty of other trips, and feel as though I can recognize it. I definitely have not encountered the entire range of possible conditions, so I'm doubting my read a bit right now.
I'm curious: could sun effects mask some of the signs of wind loading? The other thing that is interesting to me is that the second slide behaved much differently than the first. The one I triggered was relatively slow moving, while the second moved very rapidly, and traveled a large distance. The crowns were close enough together that they intersected, and the slope, aspect, and crown width and depth were roughly similar. I know conditions can vary quite a bit locally, but this is interesting nonetheless.
This certainly has been, and continues to be, a good learning experience. Thanks again for the posts.
Eric,
Hermann seems to be one of the worst spots for slabs in the Baker area. The wind blows down valley and wraps around the ridge itself before heading towards the big drop of the Nooksak. I was out nine days ago with a friend on Hermann and it was quite reactive. We remotely triggered a slab down valley from your slide site and there was lots of settling and whumping. Neverless, we had a great day by picking lines through the trees and staying away from steep, lee slopes. The slope that you had slide on you also has a fairly large open slope dirctly west of it. The rest of the ridge has gulleys and trees to the west that prevent the snow from rolling in as much as that one spot. It does not take much of a wind to blow in snow-especially the light stuff falling on Thursdays sun crust. Snow falls, gets pushed across the open slope and ends up on your slide location. The slight action of a bit of wind turns the crystals more granular. (The run before I climbed up to the slide was made with some friends that I ran into. We were skiing just as steep as the slide location but experience and local knowledge made it reasonable.) It would have been good to look at the snow at the slide to see if that was the case. There was a lot of variability in the snow depth out there which tells me that there was some wind movement. Today on Video peak we encountered only 3 inches on one of our runs.
The first picture is the second trigger spot and the second is your entry from above.
About the second slide. It ripped with speed as your slide had removed a lot of the snow that would have slowed it down.
Reading terrain is critical. That slope is one I treat with respect. It is wide, steep, large, and has a big open snowfield to the west of it. I still think the major factor was poor bonding to the crust due to snow that had been wind transported once it fell.
You are not the first person to loss gear in a slide. The one slide I was in was a wind slab in the Selkirks. I lost a pole. I left my skiis flat in the snow while I searched for the pole and my buddy set off second piece of the slab coming down to me and buried the skiis. Never found 'em! Damn I felt stupid. I saw this poem a long time ago and loved it for describing some events in the mountains....
"Though burned you are hopeful
Experience is that which we don't want
to experience."
Wright
Hermann seems to be one of the worst spots for slabs in the Baker area. The wind blows down valley and wraps around the ridge itself before heading towards the big drop of the Nooksak. I was out nine days ago with a friend on Hermann and it was quite reactive. We remotely triggered a slab down valley from your slide site and there was lots of settling and whumping. Neverless, we had a great day by picking lines through the trees and staying away from steep, lee slopes. The slope that you had slide on you also has a fairly large open slope dirctly west of it. The rest of the ridge has gulleys and trees to the west that prevent the snow from rolling in as much as that one spot. It does not take much of a wind to blow in snow-especially the light stuff falling on Thursdays sun crust. Snow falls, gets pushed across the open slope and ends up on your slide location. The slight action of a bit of wind turns the crystals more granular. (The run before I climbed up to the slide was made with some friends that I ran into. We were skiing just as steep as the slide location but experience and local knowledge made it reasonable.) It would have been good to look at the snow at the slide to see if that was the case. There was a lot of variability in the snow depth out there which tells me that there was some wind movement. Today on Video peak we encountered only 3 inches on one of our runs.
The first picture is the second trigger spot and the second is your entry from above.
About the second slide. It ripped with speed as your slide had removed a lot of the snow that would have slowed it down.
Reading terrain is critical. That slope is one I treat with respect. It is wide, steep, large, and has a big open snowfield to the west of it. I still think the major factor was poor bonding to the crust due to snow that had been wind transported once it fell.
You are not the first person to loss gear in a slide. The one slide I was in was a wind slab in the Selkirks. I lost a pole. I left my skiis flat in the snow while I searched for the pole and my buddy set off second piece of the slab coming down to me and buried the skiis. Never found 'em! Damn I felt stupid. I saw this poem a long time ago and loved it for describing some events in the mountains....
"Though burned you are hopeful
Experience is that which we don't want
to experience."
Wright
author=BWW link=topic=9836.msg39634#msg39634 date=1208745957]
I guess that I'm concerned that we missed something that should have been an obvious red flag.
The red flag to the armchair observer is that there was no real stability assessment of that slope, your experience mistakenly allowed you to believe you could recognize slab or potentially instabilities by visual reference. I don't expect to ever have enough experience to do this.
Also, you were probably somewhat anesthetized to stability concerns by the false-positive feedback from the other skiers, and allowed yourself to apply their results to your apparently different situation.
The questions and information relating to snow science are interesting, but IMHO secondary to being safe out there. If a slope may be sensitive enough to slip into the red zone based on a short period of sun or warming, the initial mistake was made when the objective was selected. Glad you're OK, I've also had a close one or two, and have realized I'll just never be smart enough to predict exactly what snow will do.
Great to see so much discussion - thanks for sharing your experience with everyone, Eric, and of course I'm glad you're ok. I've skied that slope innumerable times each year since 1999 and to be honest, when I read your description, I know that I could make the same mistake. It's a reminder to us all that the "jones factor" goodness of cold late season snow needs to be taken with a large grain of salt. I try to remember to stay the hell off the south these days with recent snow as a result. Two other things this makes me think about:
1. Though Gregg is right that we typically are really discriminating of how we roll into the entrance to that run, I and many others are guilty of rolling right down the super fun repetitive rollovers that make the souteast shoulder of Herman so much fun. Those can go just as easy, if not as big.
2. Depending on the spot, we can trigger a slide and take out a group on the skin track below. This is only in a couple spots, but in such a popular place, it can be hard to completely control.
Also, Gregg is really smart, but since I had to work and couldn't enjoy this bonanza, I'm glad he only had 3 inches on Video Peak.
1. Though Gregg is right that we typically are really discriminating of how we roll into the entrance to that run, I and many others are guilty of rolling right down the super fun repetitive rollovers that make the souteast shoulder of Herman so much fun. Those can go just as easy, if not as big.
2. Depending on the spot, we can trigger a slide and take out a group on the skin track below. This is only in a couple spots, but in such a popular place, it can be hard to completely control.
Also, Gregg is really smart, but since I had to work and couldn't enjoy this bonanza, I'm glad he only had 3 inches on Video Peak.
Is it possible for someone to post a topo plot of this exact location since it is described as especially hazardous for wind loading? I think I know where it is from the photos, but a plot sure would be great. It would be instructive to look on the map and then by inspection.
Excellent points natefred and peteyboy. I strongly agree. Gregg, thanks again for your local insight, and I agree- that's a very appropriate poem.
A simple stability check would likely have taken the guesswork and assumptions out of the situation and made for a much more pleasant end to our ski day. Wouldn't have taken long. Better route selection probably also would have led to a different outcome. The thing that bugs me was that at the time we didn't feel as though we were pushing things by skiing that slope. In hindsight, we should have connected the dots better, but at the time we did not recognize that the slope was as sensitive as it was, or that conditions were changing as rapidly as they were. These were unfamiliar conditions for me, with this weird spring weather we've been seeing recently, so I should have ratcheted up the conservative-o-meter just based on that alone.
I'll post a map this evening, if Gregg or someone else doesn't beat me to it.
Oh, and I'll be sure to try that teflon tape trick- just as soon as I get my ski back...
A simple stability check would likely have taken the guesswork and assumptions out of the situation and made for a much more pleasant end to our ski day. Wouldn't have taken long. Better route selection probably also would have led to a different outcome. The thing that bugs me was that at the time we didn't feel as though we were pushing things by skiing that slope. In hindsight, we should have connected the dots better, but at the time we did not recognize that the slope was as sensitive as it was, or that conditions were changing as rapidly as they were. These were unfamiliar conditions for me, with this weird spring weather we've been seeing recently, so I should have ratcheted up the conservative-o-meter just based on that alone.
I'll post a map this evening, if Gregg or someone else doesn't beat me to it.
Oh, and I'll be sure to try that teflon tape trick- just as soon as I get my ski back...
Those bindings are terrible for falling off. I have a pair I don't use often cause of that. Even though I'm not a huge fan of G3's free pivot, it does not fall off on me unless the binding breaks :). G3's bindings were the first that I'd used over the years that had a good system for clipping the cable to the boot.
Since the bindings came up once more, I'd throw out a recommendation for the 7tm tour -- it's heavy, but the tour mechanism is nice and the releasability was a big factor for me in the choice.
Of all the tour bindings out there, I think I'd pick up Voile's Switchback if I didn't care about release. It's lighter than any of the others, skis well and has a simple, well thought out design.
Of all the tour bindings out there, I think I'd pick up Voile's Switchback if I didn't care about release. It's lighter than any of the others, skis well and has a simple, well thought out design.
Trekkers anyone? Bueller?
Thanks for sharing, BWW, and same to all who have shared additional thoughts. It's always nice to try to learn from the experience of others.
Stugie - besides the fact that I think these folks want telemark bindings, I have to share what Lou Dawson has to say about Trekkers on his Wild Snow site:
Stugie - besides the fact that I think these folks want telemark bindings, I have to share what Lou Dawson has to say about Trekkers on his Wild Snow site:
If you've done much backcountry skiing, the first difference you'll notice about using Trekkers is the weight. A conventional alpine ski setup, combined with the Trekker, can yank at your feet like a torture of the Inquisition.
LOL...touché. But it beats bootpacking. :)
Here's a map of the area. The arrow should be reasonably close to where the slide occurred.
Eric
Eric
Thanks to everyone, this is the type of interaction that make us all a little safer, sure glad at the worst of the story is a lost pole and ski. jamie
Reply to this TR
Please login first: