best GPS units for backcountry skiing

Decided that I needed a GPS unit and wanted to be sure I was getting the best unit for the dirty work we all love doing- powder hunting! I am looking for a lightweight, user friendly, waterproof, long lived, backcountry geared GPS unit. I know lots of you folks use them and have some suggestions for a fellow TAY'er, serve em' up.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

I finally bought a GPS last winter. I got a Garmin 60csx because it is reputed to have better than average reception in trees and canyons due to its antenna and receiver technology. The unit works very well and I have no complaints.

However, the 60csx is somewhat on the large/heavy side. It's about the size of a small walkie-talkie. My partner on several trips last winter had a Garmin Foretrex 101, which is quite a bit smaller and cheaper. It is a wrist mounted unit. Succumbing to gear lust, I got one of those last summer. The Foretrex 101 has all the navigating features I'd ever need, but it definitely does not have as good an antenna as the 60csx. I've seen it (occasionally) plot semi-random track points that are hundreds of feet off-course. The unit is handy, but not quite as "damn-fool proof" as the 60csx.

I have a Garmin Vista HCx and love it.  The color screen is very bright, easy to read and uses less power than the monochromatic version (it doesn't seen right but it's true).  Also, one can load the SD card mapset for the PNW and have trails, rest stops, mountain peaks and much more at your finger tips, plus the supplies games make solo tent bound stays somewhat bearable. The unit is waterproof (very well tested), WAAS enabled, small enough to fit in your pants cargo pocket unnoticed (sort of), and is fairly easy to use.


www.rei.com/product/752629?vcat=REI_SEARCH

hope this helps in the quest for powder

climberdave

Mr Skoog and Climberdave (and any others generous with beta),

I have the same question as Chris (BTW thanks for posting this).

What were your reasons for not using the Garmin forerunner? It is about half the weight and stores at least a hundred waypoints, but no downloaded map... Is it just the electronic map and video games? Is there something more? I guess the map IS a big deal, the map in a baggie every twenty minutes can be a hassel especially in the snow...

I've got a Garmin Etrex Legend Cx.  It's lightweight, and has a color screen (which allows the battery to last about 36 hours instead of 12).  I seem to get pretty good reception unless in dense trees, and it's smaller than the 60Csx.  It doesn't have the altimeter or compass on it (which the Vista HCx has), but I have those separately and didn't need them on my gps unit.  This unit is essentially the Vista HCx without the altimeter and compass and it about $50 cheaper.  The really nice thing is that I can download all my waypoints and routes from my computer software in a split second, and not have to punch anything in by hand.  It really saves time.

one of the main reasons for the Garmin was WAAS accuracy for sea kayaking and a really good screen to back track in a white out in the mountains.  Also, the map function is nice as a navigation tool backup or to get a large scale prospective in a hurry. I was half kidding about the games and have only used that function once while in a particularly bad storm on Hood last year (battery life).   On another note, I do like the idea of a watch based GPS that could store way points and could back track (maybe Sunnto in a few years). 

climberdave

Chris, I have the non-color version of the one ClimberDave has, and like it very much, esp. the barometric altimeter...
www.rei.com/product/670219
Doesn't get very good reception under tree cover but for the most part I don't mind that; bought it mostly for b/c skiing.

Sooner or later I'd like to upgrade to one which does work in the woods tho.   And on that note,  I have a question: has anyone used the Garmin Edge 305 ....
www.rei.com/product/737840
..... for skiing/mountaineering?  If so, how well did the battery hold up in cold temps? 

A couple of mountain bikers I've spoken with use it and love it; very good forest reception.  Main reason I've been hesistant to get one is that it doesn't use alkalines, only its built-in rechargeable; supposedly lasts 12 hours, but that's at lowland temps of course.

Or basically: can anyone recommend one which has good forest reception, and an altimeter, and has good battery life in cold temps?? 



Anyway, this is my first post here in a few months ... as some of you know, I'm usually a 8-month-per-year skier.  While many of you are doing your summertime schwack-fests to get to tiny snow patches,  : I'm biking or hiking on, uh, trails, thank you very much.  ;D   But I hear there's snows in them thar hills, so here I am on TAY again...  unfortunately I'm fighting a minor cold so probably won't be going this weekend, but if not, then definitely Dec. 9.  Chris n' whoever else:  get in touch if you wanna go then!


-Ethan

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful replies, the search has been narrowed down and the Etrex HcX by Garmin is the one! Climber Dave is right, this unit rocks.

www.rei.com/product/752629

I played with it last night for awhile and has everything a ski mountaineer needs- lots of gadgets in one small convenient package.

Ready to hit the mountains, now where is that snow?!

;D

The really nice thing is that I can download all my waypoints and routes from my computer software in a split second, and not have to punch anything in by hand.  It really saves time.

Does anybody know of a gps that can be interface this way with a macintosh?

I use a Garmin Edge 305 for both mt biking in summer and splitboard outings in winter. Battery holds up fine. It will last a full day (at least 8-10 hours) left on full time. But, I find it most useful only to turn on to set a way point then off. Turn it on again really only if I need to check altitude or need to find my way to a way point. I haven't found the best place to keep it (shirt pocket? top pocket of backpack facing sky?) to get the best reception if left on all day. Last, I really wish it had a place I could hook on a lanyard. Other than that, it's great.

And on that note, I have a question: has anyone used the Garmin Edge 305 ....
www.rei.com/product/737840
..... for skiing/mountaineering? If so, how well did the battery hold up in cold temps?

Does anybody know of a gps that can be interface this way with a macintosh?

Primate - I think the Topo software from National Geographic works with either a Mac or PC, which is what it says on the website, but maybe it doesn't download to the GPS on a Mac?  Anyway, here's a link to a similar topic from Splitboard.com

www.splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=4066

Matt

I had the same subsequent question... I realized that I have a mac and not everything runs on a mac   I found that yes, TOPO! is Mac compatible and the new Magellan Triton is not. If that means I can still install TOPO! onto my mac and the load it onto the Triton from my Mac, I do not know. I will be calling the Magellan people tomorrow and finding out for sure.

Apparently the people over at Garmin are trying to become Mac friendly and have not fully done so yet. And regardless if the units become compatible, it is worthless if the map software does not run on it anyways. We shall see.

I am welcoming more solutions to this problem. Let me know what some of you gadget guys come up with for us Mac guys. I ain't going over to the dark side, so that is not an option- fyi.

Thanks again everyone for the great contributions, I am learning alot and hope to actually get a GPS that works for me out of it

Chris

Thanks stoudema for the heads up on the mac version of topo!, of which I was unaware.

skierlyles: AFAIK (based solely on surfing the web, no 1st hand experience) there are several commercial products (including topo! and this product: www.macgpspro.com/) that will move sets of waypoints between your mac and gps, but in general only the software packaged with the gps can put maps on the gps. The software that comes with gps seems to still be windows only at this point. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So this gps newbie has a couple more questions for you fine folks.

1) How useful are the maps on the gps? I have only used gps units that had no onboard maps, just waypoints loaded before the trip. Units that have maps look quite a bit more expensive, and judging from my survey of web pages, I don't expect to be able to load extra maps onto the unit with any of my computers. Do the onboard maps make the unit fundamentally more useful for backcountry travel (assuming I'm carrying my trusty paper USGS 1:24k in any event), or are they just a convenience?

2) Has anybody used macgpspro? How does it compare to topo? I have seen many beautiful maps from topo with gps tracks overlayed, but macgpspro is much cheaper (~ $50), and you can import maps from free sources.

Thanks for all the helpful information!

Micah

1) How useful are the maps on the gps? I have only used gps units that had no onboard maps, just waypoints loaded before the trip. Units that have maps look quite a bit more expensive, and judging from my survey of web pages, I don't expect to be able to load extra maps onto the unit with any of my computers. Do the onboard maps make the unit fundamentally more useful for backcountry travel (assuming I'm carrying my trusty paper USGS 1:24k in any event), or are they just a convenience?

The Garmin eTrex Vista comes with a built-in basemap of just roads (highways and major arterials) and also cities and shorelines and one or two other things.  I find it's kind of handy to have, on a tour, just to see roughly how far I am from the nearest road/highway.  Definitely not one of the reasons I chose this model tho; I would have bought it for the same price if it had all the same specs but no basemap.

And you probably knew this, but always carry a paper map and manual compass no-matter-what-types of electronic gadgetry you carry. (Remember, they're called the Ten Essentials, not the "Ten Recommendations"..)



Loom: thx for the info on the Edge 305; will probably get one eventually...

I like garmins, have a gps60 that hasnt failed me yet, and saved me once. technically

First, I agree 100% with DoubleE that you should always carry a map and a compass. My GPS has run out battery power many times. Also, I've simply lost a GPS in a white out.

My first gps was Garmin Geko 301 with an electronic compass, but no map. That works ok as long as you have auto-tracking on and/or waypoints. Otherwise, it's useless. I'm too lazy to enter waypoints.

Next, I got Map60 (after losing the Geko) which has maps, but no electronic compass. Map60 is a big improvement: more sensitive, detailed maps, lasts longer. I usually turn on auto-tracking all-day. Next time i'm back to the same area, I have detailed "waypoints". Nice thing about having map is that you can locate your position without identifying any landmarks around. This is most useful in a whiteout which I seem to end up regularly. In order to navigate this way, you still need a compass direction. Juggling a gps and a hand compass is a hassle in the stormy situation, though not needing a map is an improvement.

Then I decided that in order for a GPS to be really useful it should have all: high-sensitivity, colored map, electronic compass. I almost got Map60CSx this Fall since it was on sale. It got all of this, but not quite. One problem is Garmin map's resolution, they have 1:24k map only for national parks and some parts of Canada. Where I go often are covered only by 1:100k maps, which is useless for fine navigation. I still need 7.5min Topo map printouts.

Here comes the final (hopefully) answer: Magellan now has Triton series which can download any National Geographic TOPO maps. Of course, model2000 (~$500) plays mp3, has a flash light, take pictures, record annotations as well as bigger color touch screen, same gps chip, electronic compass. A more practical model500 has all the essential functions at half price (~$250).

I haven't seen it or read reviews yet. I'll let you know when I end up getting one.

---

One thing you can do without maps, tracks, waypoints is to get the current coordinate, then find it on the paper map. It works, but is not easy thing to do when it's dark and stormy.

You may have noticed my bias toward those getting lost situations. That's because I don't really need a GPS for any other times. A simple map is all I use normally.

I also have the GARMIN Vista (altimeter), maybe 5 years now, have used it with the Garmin Topo map program- limited worth- mostly confusing- would like to have the new GPS that uses NG Topo maps. I usually use a NG Topo map of where were going, use the GPS for UTM coordinates and plot it on the map- sometimes have loaded a Garmin map with pre set points to safety- for white out. The differences between Garmin maps and a real map is pretty big and hard to figure out where you are- so use the GPS for coordinates. I have an external amplified antenna to leave the GPS inside and antenna out and high on your person to try to record tracks. It maybe helps, never did scientific testing, when we had bad GPS spots we were usually traveling fast anyway.

If you can afford it there is a GPS that loads NG Topo maps- so the map in your hand matches the GPS map.

I also bought a Forerunner 305(?) with HR function- the system really works and is easy to download. I have only lost signals a couple times in a narrow valley hidden by mountain above- which is expected. The Vista loses signals when the southern exposure is blocked. The Forerunner is good for tracking mileage, HR, Speed and your workout; but not a navigation device- not in my opinion.

The real person to ask about GPS is RonJ- he has every point of interest in the PNW- favorite pee spots in the state. Mostly safe locations up and down most areas- you can trust the data with your lives- go from point to point in zero vis. This is the power of a GPS- data points to keep you away from cliffs or Av slope deposition zones. I had to argue with a guy once that we were in a unsafe area- the GPS showed where we were and about then the fog cleared for a few seconds- and we were standing 10 feet from a huge Ave slide- in front of use with more above us.

Get a GPS with barometric altimeter and set it to match your altimeter, carry a compass and a good map, learn UTM and your good to go. The GPS with maps are good toys; but the accuracy is what your looking for- the new units are better. My Vista is old, works and waiting for a better one- with a good mapping program- like the NG Topo. I've also used several Topo programs for work and it's hard to beat the NG Topo- maybe some one has a better idea?