Pollen Problem with pictures

Yesterday I had the worst experience ever with pollen and whatever else caking to my bases. The following pictures were taken after a 2500' run. My bases were fine before the run with no skin glue on them and about 4-5 days of skiing since the last wax job. I couldn't believe it. It made for horrible skiing and risk of injury. It actually felt like my skis were stuck to the snow when I would try to glide again after stopping. Unreal. PS- I tried to wax (hard rub on) about half way down. It seemed to help for a few turns, but probably added to the problem. Also, this occured even above treeline.

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There is a parallel thread about pollen problems in May TRs board.
-Charles

Same deal yesterday in the Tatoosh - striding with heels unlocked at 2 mph DOWNHILL!

I've posted this before, but new folks may not have seen it. The photo was taken in 1985 after a ski descent of the Sulphide Glacier.

www.alpenglow.org/themes/subalpine/cd-30...uksan-base-crud.html

Nice pics, I think mine was up to 1/8" thick in some places!!

Same problem near Paradise on Saturday. How do you get this stuff off when you get back home?

I used a citrus-based cleaner called "Goo-Gone" which is very effective, but strips the wax too. You need to let it dry thoroughly before re-waxing. "Citrasolv" is similar but a little more expensive.

Same as greg but I scraped off as much as I could before using the citrisolve. I think I'll start carrying a scraper with me in the field.

Anyone have experience cleaning the pollen/tar off the skins- we got a little compared to the ski base; but won't get any glide off the skins with the goo on them.

To clean skis, I let the skis dry, use a metal scraper, and then use a little wax remover; but not sure if the remover would do anything to the skin material. Had a similar problem last year (just not as bad); but usually at lower elevations on snow that was dirty.

I may have been impacted by the pollen factor this weekend in central Oregon too. On Saturday evening on the Hayden Glacier on Middle Sister I skied some of the slowest snow I've ever skied. Even on a moderate angle, I had to skate to make forward progress. I don't know if it was pollen or dirt or something else, but there was nothing on my ski bases that I noticed at the end of the run. That night we had insanely strong winds and the next day the snow was, thankfully, a lot faster.

We had the same issues on Baker this past weekend.

Has anyone tried preventative measures? Maybe this stuff doesn't stick to certain kinds of waxes? Warm wax is generally pretty soft, so stuff might stick to it better, maybe using a mid winter super-hard wax would actually be better?
FWIW, none of the snowmobilers in the same area were experiencing the problem. Their bases aqre composite, too, but they do not wax.

I had a soft, all temp wax on my skis and a hard, all temp wax on my wife's. Her skis had much less pollen; but she mostly skied my tracks on the low angle stuff.

Hertel ski wax makes a XC glide wax that is supposed to not allow the pollen and junk to stick to it- maybe I'll try ordering it. He makes good all temp glide wax- it is more durable too. When I talked to him last spring he told me the only way to get rid of the pollen is for the snow to disappear.

Cleaning it off the skis is pretty easy- scrape, cleaner (I only use ski wax remover on my ski bases- I think Hertel had a caution about that too), then rewax. But cleaning the skins is a pain- any ideas? The pollen stuck to the skis not the skin glue- I just have it on the snow side.

Aha! That stuff is pollen!? It's been driving my insane last couple weeks. At first I thought it was gunk from my new skins. But last night on Silver Peak I made sure my bases were clean before my run and they were gunked up after. For those familiar with this, will the problem persist all summer? Can you get Goo Gone or the citrus stuff at a normal grocery store? Thanks for the helpful info., I have been puzzled about it!

Here's an anecdote to confuse things. Early June a few years ago, we did a trip to the north side of Adams. The week before we had skied in Grand Park and had bad pollen problems, so on the forest approach to Adams we carried our skis longer than we had to, then gave up and started skiing at 5000 feet (waxless skis, no skins). No pollen problems up to camp at around 6000 feet. Did a run above camp in the afternoon - no pollen problems. After dinner (probably around 8pm) I decided to do a little tour in the starting-to-refreeze snow. I only gained a couple hundred feet, mostly traversing, and within a few minutes I could tell pollen was accumulating. When I got back to camp and looked at the previously white bases, they were completely black except near the tip (where the pollen kept wearing off, I think). I cleaned the bases the next morning and we skied up through the same snow that day with no pollen sticking (I didn't go for any more evening tours)

There seem to be two possibilities to explain this experience of skiing the same snow twice, with a few hours interval on the same day, and having either no pollen sticking or having a pollen nightmare. One is that in those few hours the trees dumped a huge load of pollen onto the snow. This doesn't seem very likely. Two, that there are certain environmental conditions which determine whether or not pollen will stick. For example, the amount of liquid water in the surface snow, or the temperature of the pollen on the snow surface. With all accounts taken together, I've unfortunately not been able to figure out which specific factors are significant.

Can you get Goo Gone or the citrus stuff at a normal grocery store?

I get the Goo-Gone at Home Depot, the Citrasolv at PCC - functionally, I can't tell any difference and the Goo-Gone is way cheaper.

We used some pharmaceutical alcohol to remove the pollen and that worked very well...not sure whether it has other side effects on the skis...

Well... here I am... sitting around on a nice Saturday watching Warren Miller films that I recorded on the dvr (got about six of them recorded)... perusing the TAY board.  I should be out there!  Anyway, I thought I would see what I could find out about this pollen stuff.  Here is something that looks interesting:

Spring Solution Saint Louis Brick ski wax :
".....Spring Solution ski wax was developed by first understanding what the brown substance was on the snow in the spring. Our ski testing labs confirmed that it was "pollens" deposited by nature. We developed a springtime ski wax system to combat the pollen.  Hertel invented the first and only real Fluorinated ski wax which interacts with the elements while skiing. Nothing else compares....."

www.hertelskiwax.com/Spring_Solution_Ski...spring-brick-ski.htm

At $45 for 12 oz block... a group purchase?

$22 for five oz at Amazon: www.amazon.com/Hertel-Spring-Solution-Te...id=1180823485&sr=1-1

So... you get an extra oz. for the larger purchase.   I hope someone tries this out and gives a report.  It can be applied hot or cold... so you could rub it on your skins, maybe.

I did the same tour as last weekend- no pollen on my skis, and they were fast (Swix all temp & Hertel, hotwax and then solar baking), Wife a little pollen (Swix all temp, solar baking), buddy Marco had some pollen (wax- well maybe???). It wasn't anything compared to last weekend- so maybe the wet snow has changed the pollen or reduced the stickiness?

Here is another take.....

From:  www.swnh.com/SWNH_Tech%20Tips.htm

GLIDE WAXING FOR DIRTY SPRING SNOW
Because of all the recent snowstorms, most of the snow in the Sierra is fairly clean. However, as snow melts the water drops through the snow pack and leaves any dirt on the surface. Most of this dirt is from the trees - pitch, old pollen, and other waxy residue that likes to stick to wax on ski bases. You'll notice that the snow out in large meadows is clean, while in the trees the snow surface can get pretty filthy.

When the snow re-freezes each night, the dirt becomes locked up with the crystals. As the sun warms the snow, the gunk floats to the surface ready to latch onto passing skis. A ski with a dirty base glides very slowly. For better gliding skis in spring conditions, the goal is to keep the skis bases as clean as possible. Here are some tips:

a) Ski as early as possible. The more frozen the tracks (skating or striding), the less dirt there will be floating on the surface.

b) Use a fluorinated wax. Higher fluor content is best. Fluorocarbons are negatively charged, as are most dirt particles. Like charges repel. So fluor waxes work well in spring snow by both repelling water and by repelling dirt. The absolute best wax in these conditions is Star TF10. It can be covered with a pure fluor.

c) Remove all surface wax. Scrape the final coat of wax after it has cooled to room temperature, the brush well. If a roto brush is available, use LIGHT pressure with just the ends of the bristles brushing the ski. Do not bear down. Brush up and down the ski (rotation should be tip to tail - its OK to go back and forth), with 5 passes in about 20 seconds. That's enough. If a roto brush is not available, use the WHITE Fibertex (Scotchbrite) polishing pads. Polish back and forth along the base with a lot of elbow grease. Never use the green or other colored scouring pads as they scratch and ruin the bases. The white pads sold by Sierra Nordic are perfect, much better than the white sheet material.

d) Keep the bases clean. All bases will get dirty. Between skis, remove the dirt by applying a small amount of wax remove/base cleaner on a paper towel or Swix Fiberlene paper and wipe off the base. Ecosol by Star is an excellent product for cleaning bases. Do not use harsh chemicals or solvents, like white gas or kerosene. Do not use citrus cleaners that leave a film residue. During a ski, take along a white polishing pad to remove any dirt. You can peel the Sierra Nordic pads in half and do two pairs of skis.

e) Re-wax often. Start with a soft pure paraffin base wax. Just after the first coat turns liquid, wipe it off with a paper towel or Swix Fiberlene paper. Then apply a second coat, waxing with a cooler iron until the wax stays molten on the base. Wipe this layer off thoroughly. If the wax solidifies, scrape and brush it off the base. A carbon/graphite/molybdenum base wax for warm conditions can now be applied. Start MAP 200 is the best product available. Finally, apply one or two layers of the wax-of-the-day (such as Star TF10). All this waxing will not only keep the skis gliding faster this spring, but also will help to super-saturate the bases with wax and make them faster next winter. The more skis are waxed, the faster (better gliding) they become.

Not wax does not work.

We skied Tatoosh Castle saddle area today and pollen is there. we made 3 runs abd scraped afte reach run before refitting skins. Both downhill and uphill went great no problems. After The last run the longest back down to the car there was significant pollen buildup. A scraper is your best defense. rewax is optional but we didn't and had a enjoyable ski day.

There is another thread on this topic where I posted my solutions...cleaning the bases with white gas works very well...it leaves them kind of dry, but works fast and it is cheap. Rain-ex applied to a clean dry base worked really well for me the first few times I tried it, then one day it just seemed to not work. Maybe it had something to do with the alignment of the planets, but it is quite inexpensive and easy to apply. I think I'll keep using Rain-ex for awhile.

Before you go pouring harsh chemicals all over your skis....

I cleaned a pair with alcohol, worked OK, not great.
Second pair I used plain old dish soap with warm water. It worked great! Took everything off in a minute.

Skied over five thousand feet near Washington Pass today: in and out of trees and up into the alpine. I came well-prepared with lots of cleaner, rags and F4....but saw absolutely no pollen at all. Maybe the rain washed it away? Maybe an unsolvable mystery related somehow to Charles' description?

Counting my blessings.

Mark