January 20, 2007, Tamanos Chutes, MRNP
1/20/07
WA Cascades West Slopes South (Mt Rainier)
21759
38
With Paradise out 'till April, the NE part of the park is offering some fabulous new terrain to explore. Two wks ago it was Big Bertha slide off Crystal Pk and this wkend we found the North bowl and NW chutes off Tamanos to be filled with deep powder. Clearing skies brought great views and more trips to plan.
picture attempt.
Sick!
Nice Boot! That has long been a favorite spring trip for me and I have always wanted to do it this time of year. Did you use a snowmobile for access to the trailhead or did you ski/ hike in?
J.P.
J.P.
Good Job!!
That's a long haul in-I think I know that line from my summer hiking-You have to know exactly where that is to take it.
I was just talking about that line to my buddies last weekend-good Ju-Ju
One of the longest straight lines other than those on Mt Rainier itself that I know.
The top has several sweet drops before the 2000ft straight decent to Wright Creek. Because of the exposure (slide potential), only skiable (rideable) in the dead of winter or with good lower mountain snowpack.
How was the vine maple fest at the bottom before the river?
How was the river traverse to the WR road?
What way did you skin in?
We need details on the trip!!
What other chutes did you ride?
Joe
That's a long haul in-I think I know that line from my summer hiking-You have to know exactly where that is to take it.
I was just talking about that line to my buddies last weekend-good Ju-Ju
One of the longest straight lines other than those on Mt Rainier itself that I know.
The top has several sweet drops before the 2000ft straight decent to Wright Creek. Because of the exposure (slide potential), only skiable (rideable) in the dead of winter or with good lower mountain snowpack.
How was the vine maple fest at the bottom before the river?
How was the river traverse to the WR road?
What way did you skin in?
We need details on the trip!!
What other chutes did you ride?
Joe
J.P.
Getting in is all about the snowmos this year!
Boot
Getting in is all about the snowmos this year!
Boot
Joe,
It's a very short, easy, <1/2mi from the road through the forest, up above the river, to get to the lower chutes. The climb up is very steep and long which makes for a great 2400' ride down from the north ridge. Before the long ride down we climbed up the nw most summit to ride about 700' into the north bowl, then a short hike up the N ridge again and down. 15mins brought us back to the snowmos on the road.
It's a very short, easy, <1/2mi from the road through the forest, up above the river, to get to the lower chutes. The climb up is very steep and long which makes for a great 2400' ride down from the north ridge. Before the long ride down we climbed up the nw most summit to ride about 700' into the north bowl, then a short hike up the N ridge again and down. 15mins brought us back to the snowmos on the road.
Awesome!!!
15mins brought us back to the snowmos on the road
Does this mean the non-motorized rule is not enforced within the park?
From the MRNP web site:
The park remains closed due to damage from flooding in early November 2006. The closure is in effect until further notice. SRs 410 & 123, Carbon River Road and the Paul Peak/Mowich Lake area are open to non-motorized use.
http://www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/hours.htm
Snowmobiles have always been permitted on 410 & the White River road...
Snowmobiles have always been permitted on 410 & the White River road...
Not according to the MRNP web page. Can you show me documentation to support your claim.
http://mountrainieraccess.blogspot.com/
The park's website used to have a page that described where you can snowmobile, but looks like they removed it (google's cache still has it).
Highway 410 through Chinook Pass is closed to vehicles. Climbers can hike/ski/snow machine into the park from the closure at the north park boundary, near the Crystal Mountain turnoff.
The road to the White River Campground is only open to foot, ski or snowmachines.
The park's website used to have a page that described where you can snowmobile, but looks like they removed it (google's cache still has it).
Although Gator could be considered a credible source, there seems to be some conflicting information on this subject. The MOUNT RAINIER NATIONAL PARK web site says that only NON-MOTORIZED use on these roads and the Park Superintendents Compendium of Designations and Closures for 2006 shows this:
http://www.nps.gov/mora/parkmgmt/upload/Compendium2006.pdf
But 36 CFR 7.5 does not exist in that document. A previous document from 1989 did show snowmobile areas but I believe the 2006 document overrides the older document.
Can anyone shed some light on this? The PI had a New York Times article in 2000 that said that were planning to ban snomo's from 11 parks. Did this go into effect?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/4158_park26.shtml
36 CFR §2.18 – SNOWMOBILES
(c) Snowmobiles may be operated only on the following routes, designated pursuant to special regulations:
• See 36 CFR 7.5
http://www.nps.gov/mora/parkmgmt/upload/Compendium2006.pdf
But 36 CFR 7.5 does not exist in that document. A previous document from 1989 did show snowmobile areas but I believe the 2006 document overrides the older document.
Can anyone shed some light on this? The PI had a New York Times article in 2000 that said that were planning to ban snomo's from 11 parks. Did this go into effect?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/getaways/4158_park26.shtml
Your question intruiged me, so I looked it up. Seems it's legal to snomo in via the White River Road, which is sweet news to me: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/36cfr7.5.pdf
See you out there Daveml?
See you out there Daveml?
Enough already with the snowmo freakin. I posted some nice pics and because it was the first successful time I did it, the best one got separated. Go to the other Tamanos thread and enjoy. Please take your snowmo worries somewhere else.
Boot
Boot
I am here, enjoying that nice picture :D -- nice work Boot!
Thank you Marcus ;D!
...i need to stop buying skis and get me a snomo
fantastic picture Boot!
fantastic picture Boot!
Boot,
Don't be so defensive. Everyone has a right to their opinion, especially as it relates to a National Park. These are valid questions - are they legal? Which it sounds like they are (why not, it's crawling with cars all summer so why not use the road in winter. My problem is when the sno mos go off the roads into the woods - that irks me as their noise and foul smell intrudes on my solitude).
Your opinion may be that using a machine to access snow in the BC is fair game. Mine is that a machine takes away from the enjoyment of the experience. I'd rather play where there are no snomobiles and go where they are not allowed and it's perfectly logical to expect that you would want to go where they are allowed. Delineate these areas and each can go their own way. Then we all have peace.
.
Don't be so defensive. Everyone has a right to their opinion, especially as it relates to a National Park. These are valid questions - are they legal? Which it sounds like they are (why not, it's crawling with cars all summer so why not use the road in winter. My problem is when the sno mos go off the roads into the woods - that irks me as their noise and foul smell intrudes on my solitude).
Your opinion may be that using a machine to access snow in the BC is fair game. Mine is that a machine takes away from the enjoyment of the experience. I'd rather play where there are no snomobiles and go where they are not allowed and it's perfectly logical to expect that you would want to go where they are allowed. Delineate these areas and each can go their own way. Then we all have peace.
.
Nice report and photos (esp. the one that ended up in the other thread on this report). Seems the discussion around access by snowmo has stayed civil so far and has just stuck to the question of whether it's allowed or not, w/o degenerating into a debate on the general merits of their use - just the facts. No need to actually invite flame wars, eh Boot?
The discssion strikes me as very relevant to this thread. Thanks to those who have shared the relevant NPS info, and to Boot for an intriguing report.
The discssion strikes me as very relevant to this thread. Thanks to those who have shared the relevant NPS info, and to Boot for an intriguing report.
MW888888,
I think I can be a little defensive when it's my post and it's been degraded by the usual assumption that I'm doing something illeagal. The snowmo gets me in and out where one typically wouldn't be able to go in the winter, and it's all good fun. I haven't seen anyone defiling The Park there; most sledders just ride into WR campground, make a loop and go back. I'm glad to be one of the few to be able to enjoy the beauty, quiet, and solitude of MRNP this year!!
I think I can be a little defensive when it's my post and it's been degraded by the usual assumption that I'm doing something illeagal. The snowmo gets me in and out where one typically wouldn't be able to go in the winter, and it's all good fun. I haven't seen anyone defiling The Park there; most sledders just ride into WR campground, make a loop and go back. I'm glad to be one of the few to be able to enjoy the beauty, quiet, and solitude of MRNP this year!!
I dont know as of after the flood but before that it was totally okay to bring snowmobiles up to the white river campground and that is specifically why they only plow one side of the road..
but on another note if everyone attacks this guy he wont post on here anymore and I enjoy his pics and info so you should freak out so much
but on another note if everyone attacks this guy he wont post on here anymore and I enjoy his pics and info so you should freak out so much
Last time I went in there they had plowed the entire width of the road to the White River turn off - presumably to discourage snowmobilers? Luckily there was 4 inches of fresh snow on the road... not quite so lucky on the return trip though, as most of it had melted.
Also the rangers had dug large trenches where the trail starts... so presumably there is some problem with snowmobilers venturing beyond the campground...
Also the rangers had dug large trenches where the trail starts... so presumably there is some problem with snowmobilers venturing beyond the campground...
author=philfort link=topic=6100.msg25275#msg25275 date=1169700895]
Last time I went in there they had plowed the entire width of the road to the White River turn off - presumably to discourage snowmobilers? Luckily there was 4 inches of fresh snow on the road... not quite so lucky on the return trip though, as most of it had melted.
Also the rangers had dug large trenches where the trail starts... so presumably there is some problem with snowmobilers venturing beyond the campground...
Philfort - I have wondered if this was the reason they keep 410 so well plowed past the gate as well, though I suspect the real reason is to provide better access for NPS employees (both for official and unofficial business), and to discourage skiing from the Crystal Mtn ski area down to 410. When I and other TAY'ers appealed the USFS decision on the Crystal permit a couple of years back it was notable that the purported reasons for doing so were to protect the "wilderness equivelant" designation of that portion of the park located between the highway and the ski area boundary, yet the NPS failed to acknowledge the allowance of the snowmobiles in the same area. Whatever the reason, the plowing sure makes for good bike access for us without sleds though!
They begin plowing the road in early spring to get ready to work on plowing the passes. I got this direct from the DOT Supervisor last year when I encountered the same conditions in March. I've never seen any evidence of anyone venturing beyond the campground area; it would be pretty difficult with downed trees and all. I'd show you a pic of Glacier Basin in March, but you'ld wet your pants ;D !
Boot, you gots a snowmobile. Can I partner up wit u? Nice tour.
There's my opinion on the subject. I heard 410 was fair game to snowmobile access in the winter also, however it was through word of mouth.
There's my opinion on the subject. I heard 410 was fair game to snowmobile access in the winter also, however it was through word of mouth.
author=Boot link=topic=6100.msg25280#msg25280 date=1169706538]
They begin plowing the road in early spring to get ready to work on plowing the passes. I got this direct from the DOT Supervisor last year when I encountered the same conditions in March. I've never seen any evidence of anyone venturing beyond the campground area; it would be pretty difficult with downed trees and all. I'd show you a pic of Glacier Basin in March, but you'ld wet your pants ;D !
Heh -- dry pants are overrated -- post the picture!
Here ya go!
I think I need a snowmobile Boot, yes I do ;D
Its funny, I've snowmobiled a lot, but have rarely used it for ski access; the biling being too fun and all. The machines can be really hard to maintain though - expensive, which is why I use my fathers after he's repaired them from my last use ;). As a point of interest, I've never met another skier snowmobiling, and never had any issues with other sledders. I don't have any problem with bilers going down what is otherwise a road in the summer. Plus any skier will be passed within minutes, as machines typically go 40 - 80 miles or more in a day. They can be loud which sucks, but that will impove as machines get more efficient and stronger 4 strokes.
Ha. I may get hung for this, I don't know. There are obvious bad seeds of course, but there are in any sport, including bc skiing.
edit to add: This also ties into my belief, that if only the strong and fit, with time can see our parks, then they will be worse off. There has to be a happy median.
Its funny, I've snowmobiled a lot, but have rarely used it for ski access; the biling being too fun and all. The machines can be really hard to maintain though - expensive, which is why I use my fathers after he's repaired them from my last use ;). As a point of interest, I've never met another skier snowmobiling, and never had any issues with other sledders. I don't have any problem with bilers going down what is otherwise a road in the summer. Plus any skier will be passed within minutes, as machines typically go 40 - 80 miles or more in a day. They can be loud which sucks, but that will impove as machines get more efficient and stronger 4 strokes.
Ha. I may get hung for this, I don't know. There are obvious bad seeds of course, but there are in any sport, including bc skiing.
edit to add: This also ties into my belief, that if only the strong and fit, with time can see our parks, then they will be worse off. There has to be a happy median.
Another snowmo-assisted winter trip to Glacier Basin from a few years ago...
Consider the Pant's wet....
is there a Sherpa fee we can pay to get in there?
is there a Sherpa fee we can pay to get in there?
It looks like you were pushing a snowblower in that pic...sweet!!!
author=Tophervw link=topic=6100.msg25294#msg25294 date=1169770571]
is there a Sherpa fee we can pay to get in there?
was wondering the same thing..
;D
author=Double E link=topic=6100.msg25297#msg25297 date=1169776610]
was wondering the same thing..
;D
Aren't we all
author=Boot link=topic=6101.msg25224#msg25224 date=1169612074]
picture attempt.
Boot you should post this porn over at http://talk.splitboard.com/talk/.
T'would be appreciated by them folks!
NW Represent
I learned a new bulletin board trick and merged the messages from the two separate threads for this trip. The discussion about snomos on these particular roads at this particular time seems useful, and thanks to everyone for keeping it civil. Great trip and photos, Boot!
Charles,
Thanks for the combo; that was really bugging me that I messed it up.
Thanks for the combo; that was really bugging me that I messed it up.
author=Boot link=topic=6110.msg25270#msg25270 date=1169689937]
MW888888,
I think I can be a little defensive when it's my post and it's been degraded by the usual assumption that I'm doing something illeagal. The snowmo gets me in and out where one typically wouldn't be able to go in the winter, and it's all good fun. I haven't seen anyone defiling The Park there; most sledders just ride into WR campground, make a loop and go back. I'm glad to be one of the few to be able to enjoy the beauty, quiet, and solitude of MRNP this year!!
Yeah, there's just nothing like the beautiful, quiet solitude you experience when everyone is gunning their noisy pollution machines up and down the road.
WOW! Actually we went out today and were the only ones on the road.
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