Dec. 15th Crystal...I'm Pissed

With anticipation of buckets of new and dangerous BC conditions I opted to go up to Crystal and skip work to ski the new snow on the Upper Mt. Crystal was boasting about the top opening the previous day and all of yesterday. So excited and ready to tear some powder turns I somehow managed to convince my buddy to lend me ticket cash...53 bucks.. a lot for a ski bum. I need to eat to, but with conditions being really deep and all the great TR's I opted for a Crystal pass instead. Showed up early in A lot with pretty tame winds, less than expected. Felt a pain in my entire body as I forked over the 53 bucks in anticipation of Rex and Green Valley opening shortly. 10, 11, 12, 1 passed.. no lifts spinning. People were getting pissed. Upper mountain was on wind hold, funny I didn't feel any wind or precip most of the day, in fact even a little bluebird, not even any wisps of windblown off Campbell....Hmmmm. Finally Rex starts to spin and we wait and wait and wait some more. About an hour later the lift stops and they declare they will not open at all. A huge mob of angry skiers leaves the ramp...pissed. Basically Crystal gets away with charging 53 bucks for forest queen and really awful snow. Crust is a better word than snow. So after advertising and promising the faithful midweekers an opening, they bail. Really think I would pay 53 for forest queen.....I think not. The bottom line is that Crystal wants to save the goods for the weekend so they can make more money....my theory....good weather...been up on Campbell in way worse......This is bullshit and Boyne Mt. is an evil money craving corp. F crystal, F brighton, F Boyne......Go to Baker. Demanded a refund and all i get is a comment card for their false advertising, good thin I'm leaving for Utah tomorrow..Hope you all have good turns at Baker and not at Boyne Ripoff. Anyone who went today.....well I hope it was sick, cause I got the shaft. > > >

Beautiful rant!

I've been waiting to see if anyone was going to post this rant.  I was there.  Not willing to waste my lift ticket standing in line, I lapped by REX many times.  Waiting..........Ski patrol even told me REX WAS open.
"umm, I just went by and it wasn't open.??"  I said. 
"It should be" Patrol said.  "all our control work is done." 
The web site said it was closed for avy control, the snowline said it was because of wind ,and the lift ops said it was ice (Ice?!  @$#%*!  Isn't this a ski resort?).  They can't even get their own story straight!
Anyways, it started snowing pretty good in the afternoon, and I had fun skiing the Queen all day, although I couldn't help to look over my shoulder each time up at what could have been, REX, dead, not a hint of a breeze, and all that glorious pow that would have to wait 'till the weekend.

I couldn't help but reply to this one...

First off, I am not defending Crystal for their report, I thought it sounded a bit like wishful thinking when I called.

However, keep in mind that the founder and webmaster of this fine web site has put together all the weather and telemetry links that a person needs to view the hourly weather observations so you can get the true data, instead of a marketing person spin on what is happening.

If you go back to the hourly obs on the 14th the temperatures at the base were 38 degrees, and 32 at the top...also peak winds were up to 62 mph.

Anyone that would have taken the time to view the "hourlys", as my buddy's and I call them, would have known it was a no-go day.

Good luck in the future guys!

Photo attached from Saturday.

... just have to get used to Crystal Quirks...

It they know that the upper slopes are going to be closed, then they will discount the lift price.

However, if they think the upper mountain is going to be open and then it isn't, then you pay full.

It would be nice to know why they had closed the upper on Thursday, but thought it would be open on Friday even when conditions were still rough.

The people running Crystal do the best they can to predict, and forecast the weather, but one never knows for sure when it come to mother nature.  I would have tried to get a voucher for a partial credit, which I know they do from time to time.

I am unclear on this statement: "The bottom line is that Crystal wants to save the goods for the weekend so they can make more money" ?? I thought crystal had only one ticket price 7 days a week? Weekend skiers are weekend skiers. That simply is in place by most folks 9-5. Be fortunate that you don't have to ride/ski the weekends.

I second BC_skier. We have tremendous tools in place to drive our skiing decision thanks to the good ole intraweb, may it be others TR's, telemetry data or simply following NOAA's weekly data. I do my homework all week long following NWAC, NOAA, etc. to make my weekend plans. Unfortunately we now live in an era where ya can't believe the spin that ski hills put out as communication.

I also am not defending CrystalCorp. I have chosen not to ski there and line pockets for the past 5 years. the good ole Crystal days are gone. As you mentioned go to baker. I am yet to see Baker and its operators overstate their conditions.

BAKER is PURE!

I was there too, waiting near front of the Rex line for 40 minutes. It looked like the problem was ice in the lift railings/chairs. Yeah, the winds kicked up at times too, but we're pnw riders here, we can take a bit of weather and love it. Anyway, I ended up having a good time, at the same time I was pissed too. But, we did get to make some turns on a day when our other local resorts were closed. Yeah, sometimes my opinions come in dichotomy flavor.

I completely feel your pain here and understand why you feel the way you do. But I have come to realize that even if you shell out 50 bucks for a lift ticket, the ski area management does not feel that they owe you anything, even when things are completely fucked up (Stevens Pass yesterday would be a fine example) They only care about you until they have your money. And don't believe that Mount Baker is any better than the other greedy ski areas. I have heard many complaints from locals there about how "Gwen was hyping it up on the snowphone today"

You should just learn to expect that they (ski area mgt.) will screw you over whenever they want to.

Like I said, I went and had a good time. I think most who check this site are pretty savy with the available resources to check up to date mountain conditions and forecasts. The unpredictability of mountain weather is not the issue here. I'm sometimes frustrated w/ Crystal's mechanical breakdowns, lip service, and lack of knowledge of their own operations. I'd like to see all the resorts do well, by keeping happy customers. I find myself enjoying the backcountry more, and taking more trips to other resorts.
BC skier- I wish more people would consider " upper mountain closed last three days, 2' of new, and decreasing winds" a "no-go day".

Unfortunately most ski areas seem to be oriented toward generating skier days by offering services appealing to those who want to do things other than skiing rather than creating loyal and devoted return customers by offering superior customer service to the hardcorps who are a minority of their customer base. I think Stevens is pretty bad in this regard in terms of ticket prices, and I will only go there under duress anymore as a result. I must give kudos to the other local areas for honoring passes after the non-season two years ago though. That built a great deal of goodwill in my book.

It's to bad that's the business model to which they subscribe, but we're a captive audience in many ways and they damn well know it!

BC skier- I wish more people would consider " upper mountain closed last three days, 2' of new, and decreasing winds"  a "no-go day".

The morning telemetry at Crystal on 12/15 showed wind gusts to 85 mph overnight. Even if the winds are decreasing, you're unlikely to have great skiing after a night like that.

I skied Crystal on Saturday. It was plenty fun, but not ideal. There was an ice crust a few inches down and a lot of wind effect. My only real complaint was that they didn't mention on their website that the chairs would be running at half speed. The line on REX was huge. On the other hand, Stevens posted clearly on their website that they were running on auxiliary power.

The morning telemetry at Crystal on 12/15 showed wind gusts to 85 mph overnight. Even if the winds are decreasing, you're unlikely to have great skiing after a night like that.

I skied Crystal on Saturday. It was plenty fun, but not ideal. There was an ice crust a few inches down and a lot of wind effect. My only real complaint was that they didn't mention on their website that the chairs would be running at half speed. The line on REX was huge. On the other hand, Stevens posted clearly on their website that they were running on auxiliary power.

I'll have to agree with Lowell. Dec 15th Crystal website said the upper mountain would be closed. Heavy, high winds were still gusting. If you checked the hourly reports, that would have been confirmed.

I believe Crystal's fault is the lack of communication between employees. I worked as a lift op a couple years ago. When people ask questions about the lifts, the lift ops have the most direct info. Most of the time the chairs are closed because of high winds.

The gusting winds can knock the chairs off the cable on the high speed quads.

High winds are killers. Just look at what happened on Mt Hood.

The Reason that they closed Rex had nothing to do with the wind according to the info I got the cold weather and wind eroded some plastic gromitts on the chair on a few poles so they were afraid if they ran it they could get long term damage I waited in line as well for more then a hour and got denied but I would rather have it messed up for one day rather then take a chance of it being messed up for longer........ and to all who said the conditions were crap where were you going cause I got deep pow lines all day

I waited for an hour and half for REX to open.  Myself, Bill, Mark and friend stood in front of the line and were the first ones to start dancing. ;D

Lifties also confirmed what Teter had mentioned.  Oh well.  Still better than money hold.  Still found nice untouched pow lines of varying depths in the trees.  Was so so so quiet in the trees on Friday.

Communication is the mother of all "f" ups.

Lift riding at Crystal is just like that movie you been dying to see.  You go in with high expectations only to be dissappointed.  Just lower your standards a bit and the sting won't be so bad.

New Crustal slogan:  Washington's Largest Ski Area...Just Lower Your Standards A Bit. ;D

Last seasons trip to Park City ended on the last day with a broken gear on the lift to the upper mountain.  I didn't find out until after I had bought my lift ticket from a machine.  I always wondered why folks lined up at the ticket window instead of using the machines... now I know.  I quit feeling sorry for myself after talking to all the older folks that had to rope-lower from the chairs into deep snow (they got vouchers).

Stuff happens at every resort.  Crystal is not a destination resort with greeters and guides.  It is just a basic get your a$$ up the hill kind of place.   They even don't have much of a tricks-park.   However, I believe that the new upcoming Northway lift is a nod to the pow skiers.

I kind of enjoy Crystal's hokey style and now look forward to the lack of grooming.   If I want real nice then I will get to Deer Valley or some other resort.

If the Rex is closed then can't you slip over into Bear Pits/K2 Face?  I used to get frustrated with it all, but now just look forward to locking into my bindings looking for some goods wherever. 

 

So... I asked.


From: Lawrence Trotter [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:45 PM
To: 'This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.'
Subject: RE: Friday Question


Thanks, keep up the great work. - larry

---

From: Crystal Patrol [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:33 PM
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: RE: Friday Question


Larry,

Patrol rode up in grooming machines that morning for control work Friday. The winds had been in the 80’s the day before and we were anxious to get upper mountain av control done and then skiers on it to stabilize it asap. Unfortunately, REX was down due to heavy icing on the lift- specifically the sheaves (the little wheels that the haul rope runs on). Maintenance crews worked through the night to change out sheaves. With a storm of that magnitude and high freezing levels the icing problems alone can take days to overcome. This is what happened to Chair 6 as well and involved 2 days of personnel skinning to the top of C-6 and de-icing the sheaves one by one (not to mention the com line wrapped around a chair). Just like the power companies and emergency services in town during the storm we were doing everything we could to get skiers up the lifts and skiing. The good news is over 40” of new snow that we added to mountain. Hope you come and enjoy it soon. Please feel free to forward this to your friends.

Paul
CM Patrol Director

---

From: Lawrence Trotter [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:21 AM
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Friday Question



On a chat room, some of us are discussing the confusion that seems to have ocurred as to why the Rex/Upper mountain was not opened on Friday, Dec 15?  People say they got different stories from different people.  Especially, that ski patrol said that blasting was completed.   Does anyone there have the answer? 



Thanks - larry trotter

That it takes time to resolve storm related damage is understandable. What bothers me is that information about what will be open at the resort apparently comes from the marketing dept. For example, I called Friday night (12/15) to the snow line and the recorded message said that High Campbell (among other lifts) would be open. It didn't say, they're working around the clock to open it, or they hope to open, they advertised on the phone line that it would be open. It was not. I was a bit disapointed since High Campbell is probably my favorite part of Crystal, but oh well.  Experiences like this (along with long lift lines and frequent lift stoppages) are why I often prefer just to stay away from the lifts.

Paul stated it correctly. Trying to recover from a huge storm can take time.

Expect the unexpected when you go into the mountains. I think that is why alot of us venture into the high country. You never know what you may encounter.

I'll bet the three climbers on Mt Hood complained about the high wnds also. But, unfortunately mother nature rules.

Better off safe than sorry. Ok, you're a few bucks short, but you are still alive.

That it takes time to resolve storm related damage is understandable. What bothers me is that information about what will be open at the resort apparently comes from the marketing dept. For example, I called Friday night (12/15) to the snow line and the recorded message said that High Campbell (among other lifts) would be open. It didn't say, they're working around the clock to open it, or they hope to open, they advertised on the phone line that it would be open. It was not. I was a bit disapointed since High Campbell is probably my favorite part of Crystal, but oh well.  Experiences like this (along with long lift lines and frequent lift stoppages) are why I often prefer just to stay away from the lifts.

I would have to concur with you. The PR Dept @ Crystal need to communicate closer with mountain operations. The lack of communication is a sure buzz kill.

Amar mentioned this on his lift-served experience at Crystal:

Heard an interesting story on the lift my next time up, from some regulars who had chosen to wait in the Rex line. A small group of skiers was yo-yoing Rex in untracked powder from 9-10AM, while it remained closed to the public. They recognized two of them as (owner) John Kircher and his wife, a former ski patroller. By the time the group skied down a 4th time in untracked fluff, the angry mob at the base of Rex managed to fling a few snowballs at them. I'm glad I didn't see it with my own eyes (I was too busy SKIING instead), but that's quite a nasty slap in the face to the paying customers if management really did behave that way.

If I owned that mountain I would have a hard time not doing just what they did.  But if I was part of the paying public or pass holder in the REX line and witnessed this I would have filled my snowballs with hersey syrup.  If indeed they did I don't feel bad about ever poaching their anymore.  Oh did I say poach!  Ooops! I bet one of those folks was Keith. Damn him!

I heard every day there is great powder they are not going to open REX or High Campbell until noon so select few can track up the goods.

Also, on the high wind days, they are going to open REX no matter what the avy hazard is so more people will get caught in avalanches, then, fewer people will be there the following week to ski the Pow...

Right!

OK...just a little humor.

OK...just a little humor to go along with the rest of the whining.

I also hear that they are going to build a tram that drops you off in a little shopping center where you can by little trinkits that are way over priced where the summit house is right now and that they are going to put a two person chair in the North back and put a groomer right in the middle of the alpine bowls

Oh wait thats not humor thats reality :'(

I also hear that they are going to build a tram that drops you off in a little shopping center where you can by little trinkits that are way over priced where the summit house is right now and that they are going to put a two person chair in the North back and put a groomer right in the middle of the alpine bowls

Oh wait thats not humor thats reality  :'(

The tram will drop you off on NorthWay Peak. A chair in the northback, but highly unlikely to have a groomer there.

The North Back will get tracked out quicker. But, that will leave more goods for The South Back.

The tram will drop you off on NorthWay Peak.

Not true the tram will start at the base by the Coffee shop and will summit where REX does right now and REX will be lowered one pole so the lines dont get crossed and the Northway Chair will be the same style as High Cambell So yesterday I rode the chair with Scott Bowen ( Number 2 for Crystal behind Kircher) and he ordered the new chair for the northback so our nightmare will become a reality next season

"REX will be lowered one pole "???????????????

I'm not so sure about that. The plans I saw showed the tram dumping off on North Way Peak.

Lower the Rex one pole? That's alot of work for nothing.

From the Record of Decision:

.....The Summit Tram will be constructed at the current location of the top terminal of C-10 (Rainier Express), which will be moved to provide for the tram. The tram top terminal will extend no higher than the current roofline elevation of the Summit House, making the tram less visible from MRNP (see Figure 2.3.3-6, FEIS, Volume 3). The upper terminal will adhere to the Cascadian architectural theme. Development of the Summit Tram will remain visually subordinate to the surrounding landscape, as viewed from MRNP and vantage points along the eastern SUP boundary....

....The upper terminal of Rainier Express will be moved approximately 50 feet downslope (east) of its current location to allow for the upper terminal of the Summit Tram, such that the top of the upper tram terminal will not exceed the elevation of the Summit House roofline.....

Here is an illustration... although, I don't quite get it:  www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/projects/crystal_ei...tal_mtn_mdp_ar13.pdf


Maybe the Rex isn't being moved down, just back a bit.

I dislike trams.  In my experience, (Jackson, Snowbird, Heavenly & Europe); you cook at the bottom, sweat while inside then freeze getting off at the top.  Added bonuses:  Seemingly poor hourly capacity (long lines or reservations required) uncomfortable to stand in, plus you get to ski alot of forgettable stuff, run outs, base area crowds, rain at the bottom, etc...   I'd rather just stay bundled on my chair(s) of choice in a fairly consistent temperature.  Well, I guess trams are sometimes ok in Europe where you don't tend to yoyo because alot of the runs are so long and there's alot of vertical to get up.  Anyway....

More important, if they lower the REX will you still be able to get to Snorting Elk cat track to access the North Back?  If not this would be stupid.   From the description it sounds like a boondoggle, (no disrespect to the Chair 4 icon).  Unfortunately there is tremendous precedent for stupid lift layouts:  Reminds me of the idiot that designed the first lifts at Telluride.  As I remember it took 4 highly overlapped (low speed) chairs to get to the top, (~30 minutes!).  We'd get so frustrated we'd just hike the couple hundred feet to bypass one (or maybe it was 2) of the chairs to get to the highest lift.  I think they changed the chair layout sometime back to reduce this lunacy.  I hope someone at Crystal is reading this and taking note.  Whew, I feel better now

I just looked at Trotters link to the illustration, should have noticed that first. The view is looking west and it looks like the REX will remain high enough. The tram will be a convenient way to the top but I wouldn't wait in a long line for it. I'd rather the money be spent on a couple chairs to open up other terrain and spread out the crowds.

The top of REX will be at the spot where you get on the top of Ice berg ridge or traverse over to Lucky Shot so you would not have access to the Snorting Elk Bowl

From the Crystal site:

N E W S R E L E A S E

For Immediate Release For More Information Contact:
November 10, 2006 Tiana Enger, (360) 663-3012

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.skicrystal.com

Crystal Mountain Orders New Chairlift for the Northback Area

Crystal Mountain, WA- A new Doppelmayr chairlift was recently ordered for the North Backcountry area of Crystal Mountain. The North Backcountry is a large area of terrain along the north side of Crystal Mountain’s designated permit boundary. The lift will provide access to approximately 1,000 new acres and increase Crystal Mountain’s 1,300 acres of lift serviced ski terrain by 77% to 2,300. This is the first new lift serviced terrain that will open in the state in almost 20 years.

The probable new name for the chairlift is “Northway” and it will deposit skiers at the top of Northway Peak after a ride of just under 10 minutes. From there, skiers face an amazing choice of skiing Snorting Elk Bowl, Northway Bowl, Paradise Bowl and Bruce’s Bowl, following Right Angle Ridge to a variety of expert glades and chutes or heading farther north to drop into places like Morning Glory Bowl and Brand X. Several new trails are to be constructed that will feed into the bottom of the new lift.

The lift equipment itself is unusual in these days of high capacity, high speed detachable lifts. Northway is a double chairlift that will move along at a faster-than-standard rate of 550 feet per minute but will limit skier capacity in the new terrain to 1,200 people per hour. This will increase the existing 19,110 people per hour lift capacity to 20,310. “It’s about the skiing.” said Crystal Mountain General Manager John Kircher. “I’m sure people appreciate the big high capacity lifts that we have on the front side of Crystal. We have a job to do handling the crowds here but we all see how fast the snow gets tracked out. The new lift in the Northback is designed to provide access but keep the snow quality higher.” The new lift service will also serve to spread skier traffic out.

The addition of the Northway Chairlift was approved with the Master Development Plan (MDP). Crystal Mountain received the Record of Decision (ROD) in August of 2004 from the U.S. Forest Service. The ROD came following an in-depth review of the Draft Environmental Impact Study issued in August 2001. The MDP, along with 6 alternatives, was originally submitted to the Forest Service in 1999.