Best BC Ski for Randonee

It's August  , and BC ski conditions are waning  >, so here it goes.  I've gone from short to longer, then to wider and stiffer skis. To date, I've bought only Atomic skis and mostly Fritschi Diamir bindings. 

I like my 177CM Atomic R:EX's with Fritschi Diamir III bindings, but while they are performers, they're a little heavy compared to my previous R:9's for example.  But the 170CM R:9's were almost too light and although they performed well in powder, they were very challenging to ski in crud.  I have a pair of Atomic 173 Teledaddy's, but they are a bit to specialized (and they are for sale).

Bindings aside, and from a Randonee POV, any opinions of a "best" all around BC ski?

My 2 cents worth.

G3 Reverends- If you ski crud, which we do most of the time up here, this is a great ski but heavy for touring.
However the weight is IMO worth it. Many of my pals give me a hard time because my set up is so heavy but when the conditions turn to heavy snow or pow, then then give me a hard time for having a fatty that makes it easier. I love my Reverends

I think you need at least two skis for the PNW. A heavy crud /powder ski with freeride bindings and a big boot for winter and a spring touring ski such as the G3 Baron or Ticket with lightweight bindings(Dynafit) and lightweight boots for corn and long spring/summer tours.

Good luck ,you are going to get many opinions, all of them valid! It aslo depends if you are a turn farmer or a tourer.

i think the Atomic REX, TMEX, Kongur, etc is hard to beat as an all-around ski. 
I agree with Scotsman though about needing a quiver of at least two ski types....although my Kongurs would be a fine ski to use under all conditions, I picked up a pair of Black Diamond Verdicts last spring and I was amazed how a 99mm wide waist can even make calf deep spring glop entertaining to ski.

.....if you want to cut weight and keep the same performance of your skis, get some dynafits     (sorry, i know you're just asking about skis, not bindings, but that'll cut a couple pounds off any rig)

What Pete A said, both in reference to the R:EX and the choice of bindings. Until recently, I had R:EX's in 181 and 177, and they rocked. Solid, stable, versatile - plus ubiquitous and easy to find cheap online.

The 181's had Fritschi Freerides on them and were mostly lift-served skis; the 177's had Dynafits and were acceptably light for most any winter use, IMO.

The R:EX and variants sure seems like the frontrunner in the popularity contest. I got myself some 2 years ago and am sure liking them. For something that isn't even an intentional randonee ski, it seems like a great all around tool. Getting a true R:EX in good shape might start getting harder now, with 2005 being the last run of them.

Like Scotsman says I too have basically the winter kit (R:EX, FreeRide) and the spring/summer kit (Shuksan, TLT), that approach sure seems to make sense. Plus a rock kit (Hexcels, 404s). Last winters abundance of big dump days inspired me to start a powder kit too (HeliDaddy, no bindings yet).

As far as saving weight on skis, I often hear from people that bought deliberately light skis like the Joos that they can definitely tell they are giving something up in the performance. Just switching to Dynafits if you are concerned about the weight seems like the big savings.

I love my K2 Shuksans...good all around ski, although not stable on boilerplate (but then what is?).

I have a pair of Atomic 173 Teledaddy's, but they are a bit to specialized (and they are for sale).

Out of curiousity, what is it that you find too specialized about the TDs? I have a pair that I love in all conditions except hardpack, though they're certainly heavy. That said, I have a pair of Tickets as a spring ski (and probably bullet hard winter days, when they happen) to fill out the quiver... Definitely agree with those above who tout the 2-ski PNW quiver for the backcountry.

OK- R:EX's get the nod as a great ski, and they are, but I really didn't want to change my binding system as I own 2 sets of F.D.s, 2 pairs of boots. So maybe I'll shell out the investment when the skis wear out or break. Until then I'll suffer the extra few pounds for performance.

On the Teledaddy's- I probably bought them too short. They're really more of a powder ski and a bit wide for my one and only Ascension skins. They seemed a little squirrely to me as well when compared to the mighty R:EX. Choices, choices!

Thx!!

I was pleasantly surprised - after hearing much hooha about 'too light' etc. - at how well my Goode Pash 80's performed on my first summer outing ever on Muir snowfield and the Pebble Creek snowfield (THAT was a fun ski!). Yeah, pricey, but stiff, extremely light (mounted with Dynafits), responsive and quick to maneuvre in the few inches of soft, dirty, suncupped and runneled summer snow on top of very icy stuff. I also enjoyed this ski a great deal under a wide variety of winter conditions even though it's not my favorite stick for the winter.

I'm sure with more experience I might be better equipped to comment on the differences, but I was sure glad to have ultralight ski gear on the climb to Muir that kicked my ass pretty good. One thing I did learn was that I will be installing brakes on the Dynafits soon. The hassle and risk of the straps were not worth the weight difference.

I like to use the BD telemark cable leashes for a strap on my Dynafits for a light attachment. I have a set of the old sliver clips on cable and also a set of the newer spring-loaded "tongs" that I just use in my boot buckles. It is not the most bombproof system (in the buckle), but is just something to catch a ski, and if there is a lot of force I want it to come off, anyway. If one tends to fall while skiing, I would recommend ski brakes. One may also buy the small cable and joining fittings to make a cable leash with a clip.

Light is right if it works. If the weight of a ski made it deflect less, then we would attach weights to skis for skiing crud or deflecting type snow. It is the appropriate application of leverage to the ski that controls deflection for a large part. If the ski is suitably stiff both longitudinally and torsionally and vibration is controlled by materials and construction, then a skier may apply the appropriate leverage through the ski.

In my experience not too stiff or soft in a rando ski, and the other qualities such as torsional characteristics, determine the all around suitability. One's weight, intent (desired speed, use, etc.), skiing style and ability also come into play. I find that some stiff European skis (Dynastar and Hagen) that I have mounted with randonnee bindings are great for fast carving but lack versatility. I found that my wife's Atomic Tourguide light rando skis were ridiculously soft washrags and probably not usable unless one weighs closer to 70 kilos or less. My K2 skis have shown the most versatility for variable conditions and reasonable stability (not the best, but good enough) for speed or hard conditions. I have enjoyed K2s since I switched after the Mahres won their medals on K2 204 cm skis over 20 years ago.

This spring I set up some 174 cm K2 Chogori with Dynafit bindings and TLT 4 boots for spring and summer skiing. Handling and flexing the ski before buying it convinced me that it should work. The Chogori is amazing and versatile for me- I never skied anything so short until this year (Disclaimer: it seems that I make most skis that I use do what I like...). The Chogori has this wide, flexible spoon tip that sucks up irregularities and floats, but the ski is stiff enough underfoot and in the tail to carve in a predictable and stable fashion. I am anxious to test the Chogori in soft snow this winter- it may do well and offer a great winter setup that weighs several lbs. less than my Dynafit FR 10/ Comfort/ Aero setup. It will be interesting to see if the Chogori is continued in the K2 line.

The new K2 telemark site is up. Looks like Chogori is still in the line up.

Cant wait to try the Baker.

Michael

That Mt. Baker looks like a strong ski. Should be real good for downhill performance and stability in the Cascade crest-type snow. It is a bit heavy.

It is good to see that the Chogori model has been continued. I ponder whether it is the poor-man's Trab. Having never skied Trab, I cannot really say. However, what I have with the Chogori is a light and functional ski that works for my large carcass. I probably would have bought some Trabs, if not for the arrogant and cheaply done free marketing on various Forums by the US Distributor and for the ridiculous pressure in email responses to my inquiries. Anyway, I spent $500 less on the Chogori compared to the Trab, so I got FR 10s and Chogoris for what I would have spent on the Trab that I was considering.

It is good to hear that the Goode Pash 80's worked well. I was considering Goode skis as well.

It is good to see that the Chogori model has been continued. I ponder whether it is the poor-man's Trab. Having never skied Trab, I cannot really say. However, what I have with the Chogori is a light and functional ski that works for my large carcass. I probably would have bought some Trabs, if not for the  arrogant and cheaply done free marketing on various Forums by the US Distributor and for the ridiculous pressure in email responses to my inquiries. Anyway, I spent $500 less on the Chogori compared  to the Trab, so I got FR 10s and Chogoris for what I would have spent on the Trab that I was considering.

My apologies if you did not like a reply to your product inquiry. Please send back a copy of the email response to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. so I may address what could have caused such pressure.   

Instead of buying 2 skis to do the work of one, you could purchase the Trab FreeRando for $599 (same price as the FR 10) and save buying the Choguri (the FreeRando is both lighter and wider), another binding and an extra set of skins.  Realized total savings: around $800. 

For $465 more than the Choguri you must have been looking at either the Duo Sint Aero or the Duo Race, both of which are over a pound lighter than the Choguri and of significantly different construction.

Instead of buying 2 skis to do the work of one, you could purchase the Trab FreeRando . . .

I've been trying this strategy this spring and summer, with excellent results. Sold two other pair of skis and replaced them with 178 Trab Freerandos; the skis have been great in everything from two inch windcrust to heavy pow to corn to ice.

My '03 K2 Shuksans have similar dimensions to the Trab Free Rando and not enough additional weight to be significant in my view. They cost $359 new. They ski well in all conditions and are versatile. I comfortably went back to the old Shuksans after my carbon-fiber FR 10 broke last winter (the ski was replaced by the Distributor). Glad to see Trab is catching up to the 21st century.

I am enjoying light boots- TLT 4- and my light 70 mm waist Chogori for a balanced setup. The ski waist dimension is important in regard to boot weight/ stiffness and required leverage to easily carve the edge. The Chogori/ TLT 4 is an enjoyable setup for me that is comfortable with classic skiing technique. The wide tail and very wide, flexible tip on the Chogori give a fat ski versatility to a relatively narrow-waisted ski.

My mid-weight Ski Touring 3-buckle Aeros are a good match for the 88mm waist FR 10 on soft snow. The Aero and FR 10 is certainly the better choice for Cascade crest deep and heavy snow conditions. Since I have the good fortune to live in the drier and sunnier Wenatchee Mtns., I anticipate that the lighter Chogori/ TLT 4 setup may be close to an all-around setup in the Wenatchee Mtns. The Chogori was great for spring/ summer corn on Mt. Hood and three times on Mt. Adams this year.

There are many posts in various Forums praising the FR 10. Except for the Distributor trying to sell Free Rando skis, there has been very little posted about the Free Rando.

I wouldn't be too quick to interpret lack of online commentary about the Freerando as an indictment of the ski, mine were the only pair I saw last year in the US, whereas I saw lots of FR10's.

TRABs rule! If they weren't so doggone expensive, and almost impossible to get discounted. MEC in Vancouver has begun selling them but up to now they have not been available in the US. Their factory is probably the highest tech ski factory in the world, I had the good fortune to visit it in April when bad weather chased us out of the backcountry to Bormio.

If you want a precision tool TRAB is it, if you are less picky, go with second best at lower price. They are THE ticket in Europe, probably not as well suited to USA dude mentality. It was similar with the Tour Lite binding a decade ago, nobody in the US wanted them, "too flimsy and unsafe."

End of religious rant. I'd rather be skiing.

According to the 2007 Gear Guide issue of Backcountry, the FR 10s have been softened in regard to the flex. This is to give them wider appeal, as I read it.

I do like my original FR 10 and rate them as having a moderate flex with enough stiffness. I found them to have the described dual radius capability- stable in medium turns and short radius when one cranks them. But I am heavy and fond of applying leverage to skis to turn. The problem with the FR 10 is the threat of another broken ski- I will not climb anymore on the top post on the FR 10 since that is what caused the heel scews to pull, which led to the collapse of the ski structure- it broke. I would really hesitate to travel far into the backcountry with the FR 10...but as long as I can crawl back from a powder stash to the snomo...if I want to cover miles, it will be on the light setup, Chogori/ TLT 4.

I share what I like, how it works for me and why I think so. The 'best' randonnee ski is a personal thing, like religion and politics.

So Trab is so great, I really do not know except what I read about the specs etc. A lot of it sounds impressive. A year ago I was close to ordering the Duo Sint Aero- it looks impressive according to specs and design that I read about. It is interesting to observe that the Distributor is so eagerly working for free advertising by posting on various Forums as the " US Distributor." So does one get deals if one posts in a similar manner?

I have a set of the original Tri Step toes that are clearly dangerous, as I experienced. The newer ones are very good, in my experience.

I just bought a pair of Trab Duo Sint Aero skis - expensive, but they appear to have an outstanding performance:weight ratio. (Once my old Miras die entirely, I will replace them w/ the Free Rando.)

I have found the U.S. distributor to be very helpful and informative, both in his public forum posts and in his private email communications. I can’t fault him for having lots of confidence in his product line and trying to publicize it efficiently: here he is importing a ski that dominates international rando racing, is very popular for touring in the Alps, yet is almost unknown in the U.S.

Plus in general I’m all in favor of distributors and reps posting in public forums, just so long as they clearly identify themselves as such. (Personal disclosure: yes, I did get a discount, but for being a race coach, ski instructor, ski patroller, and avalanche instructor-in-training, not for any past or future publicity efforts.) Industry insiders' participation could fill a huge void between the glib product brochures and the combination of guesses and misinformation that random skiers often spread. (Couloir & Backcountry are unfortunately far too focused on skis for lift-served telemark skiing - as opposed to the lightweight touring models from Trab, Dynafit, Atomic and Volkl - plus too many typos, other errors, and meaningless statements filling up their reviews.)

I also can't fault tele_mark for making his enthusiasm for Trab known on this and other online forums - he was a regular poster on them before he began distributing skis. Keep in mind that his promotional budget is a tiny fraction of, say, K2 Telemark's (which in turn pales in comparison to K2 Alpine). Distributing a small specialty line like Trab is not exactly a get-rich-quick scheme.

I had been looking for Trab skis for a couple of years, and Mark was very helpful in getting a pair into my hands.  If his "high pressure" sales tactics (?) rankle anyone, no one's forcing you to buy.

As I understand it, 2 of the 3 previous posts praising Trabs are from individuals who have not skied on a Trab (?).

As I posted above, I thought the Trab Duo Sint Aero looked good per the specs, and I have been interested. They are a bit skinny. I have not skied a Trab and cannot comment from that basis.

However, a ski used for randonnee racing by elite athletes weighing 130 to 150 lbs. may not fit my needs or the needs of other US ski tourers.

Also, a ski the works so well in the high cold Alps is not necessarily the ticket as I see it. During our trip on the Valais Haute Route I experienced conditions that were often very different from the Cascades especially (obvious point?). I can see how a narrow and stiff ski would work well in those conditions.

The lesson that I learned from my FR 10 is that an expensive carbon fiber ski can break just like that (yea, now someone will say that a Trab would not break...whatever). In all of my skiing I have only broken a ski once, and that was when I hit a rock at Alta. I was skiing that ridiculously poofy stuff there at Alta that they call snow (humor) and naively assumed that it safely covered the rocks. That snow, of course, is very different from the 3/8" of wet, heavy Cascade snow that would allow one to slide over a rock (more humor?). Since I am pleased with the relatively inexpensive Chogori, I guess I will go with it and not have the worry of an expensive ski disappointing or failing me.

You're correct that I have yet to ski them. And with their distribution having gone through only one season so far, very few people in the U.S. have skied them. (As a sidenote, other ski gear that was very popular in Europe for at least one full season before it was distributed in the U.S. include the Scarpa Laser, Scarpa Magic, and Fritschi Diamir Freeride - I'm not asserting that Trab will one day be as popular as that gear became, but just b/c we in the U.S. are deprived of something doesn't mean it's deficient.)

And Trab's lineup does max out at 84mm - although there's more to performance in PNW bottomless gloppity glop that waist width, I can understand how these wanting very wide skis would look elsewhere.

I did consider the Chogori, and also the Volkl Norbert Joos that Silas has, as well as the Atomic MX:8 -- those choices would certainly have saved considerable $$, but I decided the additional weight savings and glowing reviews were worth it.

Trab Duo FreeRando

112/110-79-96

1350g

www.wasatchski.com/skis.htm





K2 Chogori

112-70-97

1360g (174 cm)

www.k2telemark.com/skis/ski.asp?productID=13

Yes, that is a good price on the Chogori. (Although everyone here probably already knows how to use google/froogle to find the best price on it.)

But otherwise, that post requires some further elaboration - surely the implication is not that skis with 70mm and 79mm waists are comparable in performance and hence their comparable weights have any meaning?

As I mentioned before, I did consider the 70mm Chogori, but since it weighed 30% more than the comparable 73mm Trab (please note the clear and explicit reference to the model name in my prior post), I decided to spend the extra money.

(Similarly, when earlier I had been thinking instead about buying a new ski in a wider waist width for this coming season, I did consider the 78mm K2 Shuksan, but it weighed 19% more than the comparable 78mm Trab Duo FreeRando.)

I like to use the BD telemark cable leashes for a strap on my Dynafits for a light attachment. I have a set of the old sliver clips on cable and also a set of the newer spring-loaded "tongs" that I just use in my boot buckles. It is not the most bombproof system (in the buckle), but is just something to catch a ski, and if there is a lot of force I want it to come off, anyway. If one tends to fall while skiing, I would recommend ski brakes. One may also buy the small cable and joining fittings to make a cable leash with a clip.

Light is right if it works. If the weight of a ski made it deflect less, then we would attach weights to skis for skiing crud or deflecting type snow. It is the appropriate application of leverage to the ski that controls deflection for a large part. If the ski is suitably stiff both longitudinally and torsionally and vibration is controlled by materials and construction, then a skier may apply the appropriate leverage through the ski.

I don't fall THAT much, but for ease of operation I will add the brakes. Farkling about with the straps and clips every time you want to mount or dismount from the ski is enough of a hassle that I'll sacrifice the few ounces. The Pash 80 is already light enough that the net saving will still be on my side.

As far as light goes, the Goode is the most incredibly torsionally stiff ski I've ever been on. Lay that sucker on edge and it stays there unless you let up. This was the thing that was the most interesting adjustment to skiing the Goode. There simply ain't no slip.

You certainly do have light skis, oftpiste (nice)! I might have bought some Goode skis but could not elicit or locate enough convincing feedback. Glad to hear the Goode skis work well.

Actually, I used neither brakes or strap/ attachment touring except on Mt. Adams last May and June, and ski toured 3 or 4 days per week from Nov.- April except for the lousy weather week around Christmas. Maybe some day I will regret it, but I like the weight savings and no-fiddling with an attachment.

The tip and tail of the Chogori compare as shown. From my spring skiing I felt that the Chogori had a wider ski feel, while the 70mm waist reduced the lateral torque, thus working well with my light TLT 4 boots.

While the FR 10s were fun in soft seasonal snow, I found that a lot of tiring leverage was produced while skiing granular heavy snow. To overcome that, I would have needed a bigger boot than my nearly (disappointing) 8 lb. 3-buckle Dynafit Aero. Not interested in a bigger boot for touring.

As a result, I decided that I liked the idea of the Chogori 70 mm waist and mid-fat tip and tail, and TLT 4 boots. It seems that K2 made it work. This winter will be the real test of versatility in new seasonal snow.

From the available reviews (i.e., Trab in last yr's Backcountry and K2 in this yr's), the 70mm Chogori sounds pretty good but does not have any more of a "wider ski" feeling than the lightest 73mm Trab, yet the Chogori weighs 30% more than the lightest 73mm Trab (which is what I bought).
I'm not saying the Chogori is a bad choice, and I do applaud K2 for continuing to innovate with relatively light and relatively narrow skis (when so few other companies do so, especially for the U.S. market), plus their China outsourcing seems to keep prices down, but K2's efforts still end up just highlighting Trab's unique performance:weight ratios.

Again, it is impressive Jonathan_S that you know more than I about my skis' performance, that I have skied on about 8 days in spring and summer and you have not skied, and of course, know more about Trab skis' performance, which I have never skied, and you say you have never skied. And are you saying that my personal experience on my skis is not as accurate as what you read in a magazine? Ok. I am not promoting my Chogori skis for anyone other than myself, just sharing my experience.

This intense promotion of Trabs by some is quite interesting. Soon there will be randonnee skiers, telemark skiers, and Trab skiers, all believing in the superiority of their choice.

In all seriousness, I hope that your Trabs are truly that good for you. Trabs sound good, I have been interested since I learned of them in Zermatt 6 yrs ago.

You certainly do have light skis, oftpiste (nice)! I might have bought some Goode skis but could not elicit or locate enough convincing feedback. Glad to hear the Goode skis work well.

Actually, I used neither brakes or strap/ attachment touring except on Mt. Adams last May and June, and ski toured 3 or 4 days per week from Nov.- April except for the lousy weather week around Christmas. Maybe some day I will regret it, but I like the weight savings and no-fiddling with an attachment.

My big worry with the strap/brake question finally came when putting on the skis at the top of Muir in August and I kept thinking, "what if one of these got away from me somehow?" It wasn't the first time this had occurred to me while putting them on my feet in a steep or dicey spot. Without a brake they would have ended up somewhere in Pebble Creek or worse yet embedded in some poor climber's belly. You have a lot more experience in these conditions than I, but it worried me.

As for the weight, I'm a real puss when it comes to climbing and I will do anything possible to make it easier. It's hard enough already for this out of shape old fart. I had a long talk before buying them with Stephan Drake. He's the guy that runs and makes DP skis (www.dpskis.com/page.php). I wanted a pair of his Cassiars (virtually/exactly the same ski as the Goode Pash 80 he said) but they were unavailable until this year. He had had a manufacturing agreement with Goode at one time and even though he and Dave Goode had some sort of falling out he had nothing but good things to say about the skis and encouraged me to buy them. After our talk I was convinced he was a real skier and gearhead, and certainly expert in the subject of carbon fiber skis so I went ahead with the purchase. I also did a great deal of reading online and the biggest complaint about the Goodes was quality control and that some of them would come apart under hard use. One item that may be salient here is that, like many others, I'm a ski addict and own many pairs - though only 5 or so are in use these days - so none of my boards get heavy use therefore I think they probably last longer.

I have skied the Goodes in August on Muir, hardpack and powder in Washington in Montana, crud on the pass and under a number of different conditions and they have performed admirably in all cases. That's not to say I wouldn't have preferred a different pair at times, but the Goodes work very well and are an extremely snappy ski if you like that sort of thing which I do. I'm also not a terribly heavy (though tall) individual. Just for the record my very favorite pair after lots of time on all my boards last year was the Scott Santiago Mission. Amazing ski with a very large sidecut (BIG, long shovel - again if you like that sort of thing - which I find that I do) and rippin' stable on hard snow, powerful in heavy snow and wonderfully floaty and responsive in powder. It's the closest thing I've skied yet to a one-ski quiver, though I will always have a bunch o' skis. Though much heavier than the Goodes, they're set up with rando bindings and have been fine for shorter, lift served backcountry hikes at Crystal and Mission and the like.

Haven't seen anything in the new crops that's dropping me dead, but have been intrigued by Zags since discovering them last season. They also have the big, long shovel geometry which seems to be pooh-poohed by many but that I find to be a beautiful thing.

blahblahblah. I love skis, especially ones made by small companies. My favorite website on the planet is: www.exoticskis.com/

blahblahblah.