helli ski info

So did helliski north cascades get censored?

Appears 86'd and relocated to the mothership from Wyoming.

"Freeski" is now working on getting banned over on NWHikers

www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1120678#1120678

I feel bad for the guy. I think we should all pitch in and treat him to a day of Heli skiing.

I'm not privy to the thinking of current owner or moderators, and I agree that it would help if we knew what causes people to be banned from this site. This happens so seldom that I doubt a bit of clarifying would take much effort.

It does seem clear to me—if not to the previous poster—that this particular ban came about due to repeated, persistent attacks and thread hijacks over an extended period of time. On an unrelated forum where I still help moderate, we ban people very reluctantly, and only when entreaties to play by the rules and not drive other members away have had no effect. That sure seems to have been the case here.

In other words, I don't think it's the content that was found objectionable—if that were the case a ban would have come long ago. Rather, it was the manner of presentation and its effect on this community. Conspiracy theories and accusations about who the site owner knows, favors or is protecting aren't really necessary.

Just my thoughts on the matter, and no more or less valid than anyone else's.

Mark

can't say I miss the ranting but also agree with what KLW and markharf are saying. It would be good for the TAY community to get some clarification on this authoritarian move... seems extreme to remove all of his posts.

What exactly warranted that?

^^ power move^^

freeheli has found a safe place to drive the drivel at the mothership.
his whine won't play well but won't butthurt the heli dentites either.

let's talk about the best route thru the kendall stumps again

He probably hurt the wrong person's feelings...politics makes strange bed fellows?

Back in the '60 s logging was king and could do no wrong...

freeheli has found a safe place to drive the drivel at the mothership.
his whine won't play well but won't butthurt the heli dentites either.

Ooh, that has some entertainment potential. I've not heard anything from him yet over there, but I'll look forward to it. Or maybe he'll get locked in the padded room...

Back in the '60 s logging was king and could do no wrong...

You're seriously equating NCH to logging in the 60s? Have you been smoking the same stuff as Freeski?

Let's review some of his delusions and falsehoods:

1) NCH buzzed him with their heli, with the intent to harm him.
2) NWAC is a commercial organization (wrong!) that is biased toward the guiding industry, and intentionally hides their "near misses" to protect them from bad publicity or embarrassment.
3) The NCH heli is a danger to all, due to the noise. He postulated that this likely causes temporary disorientation and/or brain damage.
4) People rely on his field observations posted on NWAC to make real time terrain choices around WA Pass. Had they just left his bogus posting up, it would likely have prevented a death.
5) The NWAC repository of "near misses" (does that even exist?) are widely utilized by people to make informed decisions about whether to sign up w/ NCH or hire a guide around WA Pass.
6) He understands snow stability and knows more about what is safe to ski around WA Pass than anybody else. Any accidents up there are the result of not being as knowledgeable as him.
7) He is entitled to ski the Loup whenever he f'ing pleases, regardless of whether it is closed. He equated this to his parents' marching for civil rights in the 60s.
Plowing the highway to provide skiers and others with access higher up the valley (as the DOT did this year) would take away valuable resources from elsewhere and put "the children" at risk.
9) He claims to have personally warned me about an avy danger that existed at WA Pass, after I reported triggering one on here (without consequence). This did not happen and his insistence that it did is both crazy and creepy AF.

I'm just working off memory here, so I probably missed out on some other doozies. As for his views, I'm sure the people who think they have any merit will continue to represent them adequately on here.

I'm sorry..cutting those trees is not that big o deal...it is a renewable source...I don't smoke...what does he smoke..do you recommend it?

I'm sorry..cutting those trees is not that big o deal...it is a renewable source...I don't smoke...what does he smoke..do you recommend it?

Apologies if i misinterpreted. I cannot recommend whatever he is smoking.

For the record...

In real life HFNC (Chris) is a really nice guy who will show you the goods, give the beta, and even provide a tow when you're big miles from your destination.

While he isn't a great internet community member, he's a pretty damn good real community member.

I don't doubt it....that came through at times in his posts...now you know how he really thinks and operates when anonymous. Manipulative and opportunistic

sounds like a typical day at tgr

This thread's not even 36 hours old and you're already throwing the forum administration under the bus...

Maybe our fearless leader is out enjoying the sunshine and healthy snowpack like the rest of you should be?

Last time I checked, this forum and its associated website are run entirely by volunteers. When's the last time you gave back to this community? Take a lap, all of you...

wow, only 36 hours and the hyperbole flies... "Crickets from management" is hardly "throwing the forum administration under the bus."

I get BillK being thrown under the bus... maybe the two got conflated? :'(

As for the administration, of course they're watching. Maybe there's just no good response... overreaching authority is certainly part of the 'new' administrations style and history.
My own (unfortunate) experience has been that rather than engage with the community directly their first instinct is to cover their tracks. I get there's a lot of national precedence for that of late...but it certainly doesn't promote a sense of community.

anyhow, you're right about the skiing part, it's fun! sun is out...

spring makes the flowers grow

Banning or suspending someone for pissing off the community or breaking the posted rules is one thing. Deleting every single thing the guy ever posted is a whole new level of bullshit moderation I've never quite seen the likes of.

(not necessarily directed to the author of the quoted post above)
While removing all of his threads could be considered an over reaction and overzealous use of the ban hammer, the owners of the site don't owe an explanation to anyone. That said, if this place is turning into something that has outlived it's usefulness (Which would be a pity given the amount of information that would be lost if it went away), start something new, or become part of the mod team and effect positive change.

I know this is a controversial issue. FreeSki / HFNC was causing a lot of problems here in RandomTracks for a long time. He was also keeping some momentum here as well, but much of it in a controversial manner. Deleting all his threads was probably overkill. Select moderation would have been better. Marcus and I did not discuss the topic long enough before the delete button was pressed. Not an excuse, but wanted to give some insight into the situation.

I can appreciate that. Once I deleted a pretty vulgar pic that bunny profane plastered in a 9/11 memorial thread and he about lost his mind. I didn't give it much thought when I pushed the delete button, it just felt good. He later re posted the pic and called me all sort of vulgarity and nonsenses. I just took it as part of the job. I'd probably ski with him but first I'd give him a piece of my mind and be careful on the offload ramp if we took a chair together. My point is, we didn't ban his entire history and really did nothing else. He's still a know it all east coast local but not as much a dick. problem solved and maybe a win for everyone.
did you consider a time out? works ok for us

Not that anyone's going to miss another brush bumbler from Oregon but in all fairness to the management...

I've requested that my login and every post I've ever made on TAY be deleted. I'm not interested in participating in this train wreck any longer and since they seem to have the ability to erase a person from the site and have clearly demonstrated the ability and the "right" I see no reason why that couldn't be exercised on my behalf. Or on YOUR behalf if you find this kind of intervention and thought policing as childish and shortsighted as I do.

I post this because I'd hate for them to be accused of silencing dissent among the ranks if they decide to grant my request. Of course if they do that then this post will be gone and no one will care about this whole silly but completely avoidable incident.

Happy turns folks!

HFNC was intentionally provoking conflict. Chris decided to pull the plug on him, and that is absolutely his prerogative (and I support him 100%, as he has been given the responsibility of that judgment). I feel like it is in line with the cultural standards of TAY, which has always been on the stuffier side.

While HFNC tended a little conspiratorial, and his posting become more and more confrontational, I enjoyed some of the discussion that he incited. Maybe he'll continue contributing to our community through his other avatars. I know I'll be here if anybody wants to talk about skiing.

Best,
Micah

"Freeski" is now working on getting banned over on NWHikers

www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1120678#1120678

Looks like this may have occurred. There have been no more posts on the NWHikers thread since Tom (the admin) posted a reminder about the site guidelines:

www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8017231

I hadn't read the NWHikers guidelines before, but I like the basic idea. Quote:

Is it positive?  Is it helpful?  Will it make people want to return to this site and be part of this community?

Good advice.

they use that same approach at my kids daycare

stuffy daycare for adults: now that's a winning cultural combination!

(I usually try to steer clear of sarcasm... but man, seriously?  In this day and age of multiple social media platforms nibbling away at TAY's ability to be a cohesive center of Pacific NW backcountry skiing culture and we get

...and that is absolutely his prerogative (and I support him 100%, as he has been given the responsibility of that judgment). I feel like it is in line with the cultural standards of TAY, which has always been on the stuffier side.

You really want to keep it narrow-minded and conventional: stuffy?  I'm sure that's a great way to recruit a more vibrant crowd: double down on the dour.
And loyalty trumps thinking on your own two feet? (regardless of what we advocate as good backcountry protocol)

my TAY heart is sinking...

You really want to keep it narrow-minded and conventional: stuffy?  I'm sure that's a great way to recruit a more vibrant crowd: double down on the dour.
And loyalty trumps thinking on your own two feet? (regardless of what we advocate as good backcountry protocol)

my TAY heart is sinking...

I certainly don't want to restrict the discussion here. Want to talk about commercialism and guiding in the ski industry? Start a thread! I'll jump on and give my opinions (which, TBH, are frequently aligned with HFNC). If you use a modicum of courtesy and employ the golden rule, I'm sure you will not suffer any censorship. I want to emphasize that it was HFNC's rhetorical style (behavior), not his politics or beliefs that led to the deletion of his user.

I'm thankful to have TAY. I'm thankful that Charles started the site and that Marcus and Chris have kept it going (by contributing significant personal time and effort for nothing but the satisfaction of doing it). Given that state of affairs, I'm more than happy to defer to their voices in decisions like how far to let HFNC go. I personally wouldn't (and didn't) ban him. But I certainly don't have a problem with the 'boss' doing so.

I'm sorry, Cumulus, that your TAY heart is sinking. You have posted some great stuff over the years. My TAY heart is heavy, too.

I can appreciate that. Once I deleted a pretty vulgar pic that bunny profane plastered in a 9/11 memorial thread and he about lost his mind. I didn't give it much thought when I pushed the delete button, it just felt good. He later re posted the pic and called me all sort of vulgarity and nonsenses. I just took it as part of the job. I'd probably ski with him but first I'd give him a piece of my mind and be careful on the offload ramp if we took a chair together. My point is, we didn't ban his entire history and really did nothing else. He's still a know it all east coast local but not as much a dick. problem solved and maybe a win for everyone.
did you consider a time out? works ok for us

Thanks for the advice!

my TAY heart is sinking...

+1.  I've been posting and hanging around on TAY for 16 years and I can't remember seeing the entire history of a person's posts deleted.  While it may be within the site's terms of use, it is IMO is a significant violation of most users' trust in the site.  Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the internet and current Director of the World Wide Web Consortium remarked yesterday on Twitter (Invalid consumer key/secret in configuration) that "Any data about me, wherever it is, is mine and mine alone to control."

The site admins should restore freeski's posts.  This should be possible by restoring them from the database backups.

FWIW the context of Tim Berners-Lee's comment is rather different from this situation. For anyone living under a rock, he's referring to the sort of behavioral tracking that sites like Facebook, Amazon, and Google (and many others) do, creating large repositories of information about what we've clicked, what we've liked, what we've ignored, etc. And as I read it it's suggesting that this data should be owned by the person whose behaviors created it. Not sold and resold and inferred upon with sophisticated machine learning models without informed consent by that person.

I get the concern about a community member's record of participation being wiped clean, but I wouldn't use that statement by Mr Berners-Lee as ammunition for this notion. His statement might apply to selling the content of your posts plus your clickstream here to a third party. But the duty to maintain a faithful archive for public viewing is another matter and IMO entirely based on whatever guarantee a site owner has given to users. I can imagine many types of sites where such a guarantee would be a non-starter.