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AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
- dave095790
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Complicating Factors: I have ultralight AT gear (TLT5, TLT6 boots, RT bindings, LaSpo skis) and some mid-weight AT gear (Vulcan boots, Ion LT 12 and Kingpin bindings, DPS skis). I do not have any resort specific, downhill focused equipment.Â
Possible part of solution:Â I am considering taking advantage of the current available sales to get a real alpine boot, binding, and ski combo to utilize inbounds instead of skiing the Vulcan/Kingpin/DPS combo.Â
Hesitation:Â The Vulcan/Kingpin/DPS combo is damn good, boarderline as good as any downhill alpine combo and am not sure the price, hassel is worth it ...
What does the TAY collective think?
Will it matter?Â
Will the improved performance in bounds translate to better performance in the AT gear?Â
Do all of you have your touring rig and then your resort rig?
I have been working with some professional instructors at Stevens to get rid of years of bag habits ..
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- filbo
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My resort and side country set up is a bit old but solid for any resort skiing I care to do.
Scarpa Spirit 4's==4 buckle boots at about 4lbs per boot. This is my one quiver boot.
Marker Barons with a Din range up to 12 if you want it.
Hart Outbacks 178 132-105-123
My tour set up is another pair of Outbacks with Dynafit Vertical St's.
My 4 buckle AT boot and AT binder handle all I wish to ski at the resort and then some, but I am not bump or speed skiing and keep my skis down in the pow and not hucking anything these days.
Best on your finding a solution.
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- altasnob
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- ridngoofy
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www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=39645.0
So now I am getting re-educated on bindings.
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- skibacks
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slide for lifes on hardsnow Middle Ferks at Crystal.
The heel retention on the Kingpins is superior for my
72" 210 lb 7 din skiing - both on and off piste.
I use the Tecnica Zero G Guide Pro boot as a daily driver and the weight and traction
Are awesome on the Southback hikes. Based on my read, I would try a few resort days on your Kingpins before you blow some dough on a new setup.
And.... I'll be 70 next week.
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- Randito
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FWIW: My resort / sidecountry setup is Scarpa Freedom SL 130s and Vipec bindings. More solid feel than regular Dynafit heelpieces and I do like the toe release.
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- Jim Oker
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That said, one of my perceived benefits of not trying to straddle is that I know my setup takes much more of a pounding at the resorts, both due to increased vertical skied as well as due to my style of skiing at resorts where potential consequences aren't quite as great. I like that the gear I'm counting on to get me back out from a tour hasn't been subject to said pounding.
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- Andrew Carey
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I have Mercury boots (with Booster Strap, but I don't use the accessory tongues leaving about a 100 flex) mounted with Kingpins to Fischer Ranger 98 ti as a softer-snow piste, off-piste, sidecountry, and sometimes backcountry outfit. It is superb for the way I ski lift-served but, of course a little heavy bc, but I have 4 different bc-dedicated skis [Voile Vector BC, Movement Vertex-X, Dynafit Cho Oyu, and Movement Shifts] and 3 boots [TLT6, Scarpa F1, Dynafit Mercury--all with Booster Straps ]..
I also use the Mercs with Voile V8 skis with Plum Yak bindings for lift-served deep, soft snow--super fun, playful, quick etc. I also use this outfit bc with really deep snow.
There are always trade-offs. But IMHO it is worthwhile to have a dedicated alpine setup for the hard snow, fast speed groomer and bumps skiing. Lots of discussion on Wildsnow and elsewhere of the limitation of tech bindings on-piste; YMMV. Depending on skiing style and frequency, the new Tectons and the forthcoming Salomon Shift bindings offer more versatility. I reallly liked the progressive flex of my Zzeus and a similar boot with a 100+ flex, with Techtons/Shifts, and Ranger 98ti might well substitute for the 3 combos I now use lift-served. Not putting down other skis--I loved my Volkl Mantras, Kastle LX92s, Rossi S7s, etc but I've just have more fun on the Rangers and V8s but my V8s can be punishing in hard, icy snow.i
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- mikerolfs
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- dfhkvs
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I may be limited by my desire not to f&$k myself up, however. So, the way I ski in my mid-40s is a lot different than how I skied in my mid-20s. I take the bumps a bit easier, I avoid air, etc.
And my gear is GREAT for the way I ski.
D.
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- dave095790
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The demo idea has been on the radar and is, in reality, probably the best option off the bat to see how green the grass might be on the other side.
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- slacker
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There are a few questions to ask but I would ask what conditions you are going to be skiing inbounds?
IMO if you are a dedicated resort SOFT snow skier your mid weight AT set up will ski the pow as well inbounds as out of bounds. Having a light and easy swing weight is terrific in the pow Especially in the trees because they turn so much quicker and easier than a heavy set up.
If you're going to be skiing groomers, chundery snow (that's a thing right?)
and/or hard pack a super light AT set up is going to get thrown around.
A heavier and stiffer set up will give you more control and confidence in those conditions.
Since Resort skiing is usually a pretty mixed bag of conditions you almost need a setup that can handle it.
I have two dedicated set ups. Ultra lightweight AT for touring.
Ion 12, DPS Wailer Tour 1, Atomic Backland Carbon.
Mid weight ATÂ for soft snow resort and side country skiing.
Kingpins on Soul 7 HD with a stiffer AT boot.
I tend to ski faster and a little more aggressive inbounds so I was a little nervous about a prerelease when I started skiing with a tech set up inbounds. But, I haven't had any issues with the Kingpin. The heel piece does a great job holding it all down.
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- Nate Frederickson
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From a practical standpoint you can get a great pair of last year's or used skis that work great in all conditions for not much money & bindings are cheap and extremely durable so why put the wear and tear on your pricey and less durable (inarguable) AT gear which is not going to ski as well anyway?
Spending the time and money to find boots you love is a bigger investment, but once done you will get at least 5 years out of them.
Inbound skiing on any sort of gear will improve your AT skiing, you'll just have more fun doing it on alpine gear.
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- sgertz
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That's what I did with my Maestrales. Works like a charm.
Just don't take the bindings to REI to get mounted, they don't know shit...
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- Bird Dog
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Really happy with the package at resorts.
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- flowing alpy
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I would have no concern about riding tech gear daily.
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- Scottk
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- OregonDead
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- Rainypm
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While I found it worked just fine, I noticed it was more of who I was skiing with that mattered.
If I was with my back-country friends then the touring set up was just fine in-bounds. However if I was skiing with my resort friends, I just didn't feel as comfortable skiing as hard/fast as the group with resort set-up.
So I put together a set up for in-bounds. I use the same boots as my fit is really dialed in. I went with Marker Griffon ID binding(compatible with touring soles) and picked up some Blizzard Bonafide's.
For myself I have found the resort set up is better suited for what the resort has to offer, whether groomers, tight trees, short stashes and skiing laps.
In the back-country, I find I want to enjoy the effort I worked for, so I tend to ski slower and enjoy the ride.
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- DG
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Since there is no real weight penalty with resort skiing, if you do it enough, it makes sense to ski with a different set up that can be heavier to handle different conditions.
I know that everyone's preferences are different, but I couldn't imagine skiing only backcountry. Lift skiing on a storm day is just so much fun, and being able to ski aggressively inbounds is a different experience to me then the cautious approach required for backcountry skiing. By the same token, I wouldn't want to be restricted to what's lift-served since there is so much more around here that is only accessible with touring gear.
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- Kiddch
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- hillybilly
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I have yet to have an issue. My bindings have released when they should. There are guys sending and skiing harder than me in the same setup. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am trying to save the cash so I was actually about to go the opposite and stop funding my resort lineup. My plan was to buy two liners for my Vulcans. A powerwrap and a pro-tour intuition. With the saved cash I can now invest in a better mountaineering setup. Climbing volcanoes with 120 underfoot is a bit excessive.
I am 5'8" and 170#. Hope this helps.
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- ron j
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At the time my Dynafit bindings seemed to hold up hell for stout so I finally just started using my dynafit boots and the skis under my Dynafit bindings for all the lift serviced skiing I did. When I saw skis for sale with the Dynafit bindings I liked and the seller was asking what I would pay for the bindings I'd just buy them and give the ski away unless I liked them. So I have maybe 4 or 5 sets of the older Dynafits, which for me is probably a life's supply.
Anymore I usually just have a quiver of two; a pair of fatties for fresh dumps, and some skinnier, turnier ones for hard snow and summer skiing both used for resort or backcountry. I just use different poles and a helmet inbounds.
I did get a painful lesson the hard way and it cost me a pair of boots to learn it. At the time I was covering a lot of ground and time in the summertime chasing lines in my dynafit ski boots. And the mileage was taking it's toll on the soles of the boots... especially at the toes. I did notice that there was starting to be a fairly good sized gap between the toe sole and the binder toe cross piece between the pincers. I didn't much care though because the pincers held the boot toe cups in position. So with the toe pincers closed on the boot toe and the heel pins snapped in the boots were properly positioned regardless of how worn the boot soles were.
But after a year or two of skiing hard all year, I starting realizing that particularly hard turns to the left would cause my right ski to come off. After a couple of heinous crashes, I thought I'd better look into it. While watching the inboard right boot pincer pin/cup interface while in a hard left turn (not that easy for a geezer to do without crashing) I saw that the extra pressure was forcing the right boot down (no support underneath because the sole was worn down) and the pin up in the cup. Upon further investigation, I realized that the pin had worn a huge groove in the upper wall of the cup. I could partially mitigate the problem by skiing with the toe piece in tour mode, which I did for a bit, but to the detriment of releasabilily. Being a geezer, chose not to go for the lack of releasability long term. I built the sole back up to stock thickness at the toe with freesole so that it rested on the crossbar like stock, and that helped a bit, but the cup on the boot was trashed and I couldn't figure how to replace it without replacing the boot, so it was new boots for me.
So the moral of that story is make sure your boot toe has some support beneath it when locked in, so you don't wear out your boot toe pincer cups.
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- TN
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On lifts I ski the Vulcan on an Atomic Vantage 100. For a short "sidecountry" tour I have LaSpotiva High 5s with a Fritche frame AT binder.
Touring, I ski the Arcteryx boot now after being on TLT6 since I switched to pin tech.
I cannot imagine being able to ride lifts repeatedly in those tour boots. I demoed the Atomic Backland Carbon recently and would say the same about it. I would have to fiddle buckles at the top and bottom of every lift ride to get into walk mode for the ride up! (Too cold and uncomfortable in ski mode) I've seen folks riding lifts in these light, thin, lesser buckled boots, so some can make it work. The compound problem is that these and a few other boots are"pin-tech only" boots. In 'beefier' boots like the Vulcan or the new Atomic Hawx, the liner is thicker and stiffer materials distribute the buckle pressure better. Those boots will stand up far better to repeated use on lifts.
One major problem with pin-tech on lifts comes when some find they must ski in walk mode on Dynafits because otherwise they pre-release. In addition, many Dynafit models have way too much ramp angle. This can be seen in the backseat stance of many users and their "dancing tips" in powder. (That backseat stance becomes even more of a problem on-piste.) Older Dynafits have kind of a fake ski brake that I wouldn't trust anywhere.
I have three pair of pow tour skis with Vipecs, none of the skis are all that fun "in-area". The Vipec and especially new models like the Techron, Kingpin and Salomon Shift have big advantages in both wear and safety categories.
While many have expressed that they have done fine lift skiing on their pin-tech so far, I agree with Mike Rolfs and many others that the safety is just not there. Also, there is no way that the boot to ski connection is as positive with "pin" connections front and rear! Additionally, It doesn't make sense to me to wear out the bindings and boots that I depend on for backcountry delight!
Totally agree with those who have expressed how much extra gear is out there at a good price, go get some!
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- Pete_H
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I think that if you're planning to just ski the resort on powder days your should just stick with the DPS with Vulcans. If you want to go up whenever and will be skiing chop, bumps, groomers, etc. you may want to consider getting a burly more versatile setup.
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