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Author Topic: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017  (Read 2095 times)
avajane
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Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« on: 12/07/17, 01:50 PM »

Skied 2 days of light to medium to heavier chop in Whistler Singing Pass
Area with no release issues at all. (Came off once in the chop when I buried a tip)

On way back to lifts I was in a wide tuck going 35-40mph down the runout to the closed Harmony lift. Been doing that same straight tuck for 25 years to avoid walking the flat. This time I started to fall and was first surprised then scared! I couldn’t believe I could be falling, and started to stand up to correct and saw my ski fall off! I think when I stood up the binding had already released, but was still with me for a fraction of a second...Whatever...hard tumbling crash, hurt left knee and ankle, spread out over 50’, missed beer at Seppos😡.

Total user error...Should not be going that fast on those Dynafit Radicals on hard pack I guess. Snow was flat but had hardened up in the shade and was a little rough.

Now I just hope I heal fast. Consider your setup at speed.

Brian
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Brian Izdepski, Facebook TAY
Andrew Carey
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #1 on: 12/07/17, 03:23 PM »

For sure.  Skimo.com has done binding release tests and found it surprising how far flexing the ski can bring the heel pins to the front of the heel.  Varies of course with boot and ski model.
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... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
RonL
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #2 on: 12/07/17, 03:42 PM »

My usual experience with this has been bits of ice keeping them from properly gripping the boot. Once I take the time to make sure it's clear no more issues.

This is a different issue then? Flexing the ski too much can release them? I have just recently begun to use them at the resort to teach the kids. Will I need something beefier if they advance past the blue runs?I don't ski aggressively too often.
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avajane
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #3 on: 12/07/17, 06:38 PM »

You know it might have been bits of ice....There was some shock at that speed, but no bumps to create much bend. Personally, I don’t use my bc skis or bindings inbounds except when really needed. Release is not as sophisticated, the bindings are expensive and wear out fast, and the skis are thin and hurt everything on hardpack. Add this to Andy’s remark about flexing on Bumps, and my incident...But I love to look Backcountry Chic in resorts😜😜😜😘
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Brian Izdepski, Facebook TAY
RonL
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #4 on: 12/07/17, 06:56 PM »

Ha, looking goods important out there. Hope you heal fast. I enjoy the whistler intel.
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Kiddch
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #5 on: 12/08/17, 04:47 AM »

I’ve had frighteningly similar pre-release issues, and I don’t think it had anything to do with bits of ice or ski flex.  Granted, my sample size is small as I only expanded my touring quiver beyond the Barons mid season last year, but on two inbounds days (one at Whiteface and one at Baker) I had very unexpected pre-releases. 

I’ve skied the Dynafit setup hard in both the Tahoe and Baker backcountry, as well as skied The Fingers and Ah Chute at Squaw on them, and in good (soft/powder) snow conditions they’ve performed like a trooper.  Heck, if you want to see what kind of ski flex the Dynafits can really handle take a look at my survival skiing video of a steep and narrow chute that I navigated off the Elbow at Baker.  (Don’t judge me, please! Embarrassed Like I said....I navigated, not skied, that one in survival mode.  I’m a near 50 year old east coast skier, so please forgive my lack of stomp-age.  Wink )

https://vimeo.com/210708421

I just don’t think the Dynafits respond well to a hard, icy surface under foot.  There’s nothing in the toe to provide cushion or absorb the shock that an icy surface can transfer through the ski.  I love the Dynafit setup but it has its limitations, and isn’t a great choice for less than ideal inbounds conditions.  Not surprising, because that’s not what it was made for!

My Whiteface pre-release was similar to yours.  Skiing powder on Skyward I hit a transition to a hard, wind blown, icy stretch at speed.  No hard turn, no bumps, just a smooth transition onto ice.  All of a sudden a feeling something isn’t right, then I watch my right ski head off on its own.  The high speed yard sale  that followed could have been a lot worse, thankfully.  Cranked the bindings and added a pair of Dynafit leashes after that experience....
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Norseman
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #6 on: 12/08/17, 05:46 AM »


I just don’t think the Dynafits respond well to a hard, icy surface under foot.  There’s nothing in the toe to provide cushion or absorb the shock that an icy surface can transfer through the ski. 



Yup. Elastic travel! One of the main selling points (deservedly) for high-end alpine clamps. The feel of pintech is absolute dogshit on firm/mixed compared to a proper downhill binder. Pins inbounds sorta work till you push em.
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avajane
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #7 on: 12/08/17, 10:57 AM »

I’ve had frighteningly similar pre-release issues, and I don’t think it had anything to do with bits of ice or ski flex.  Granted, my sample size is small as I only expanded my touring quiver beyond the Barons mid season last year, but on two inbounds days (one at Whiteface and one at Baker) I had very unexpected pre-releases. 

I’ve skied the Dynafit setup hard in both the Tahoe and Baker backcountry, as well as skied The Fingers and Ah Chute at Squaw on them, and in good (soft/powder) snow conditions they’ve performed like a trooper.  Heck, if you want to see what kind of ski flex the Dynafits can really handle take a look at my survival skiing video of a steep and narrow chute that I navigated off the Elbow at Baker.  (Don’t judge me, please! Embarrassed Like I said....I navigated, not skied, that one in survival mode.  I’m a near 50 year old east coast skier, so please forgive my lack of stomp-age.  Wink )

https://vimeo.com/210708421

I just don’t think the Dynafits respond well to a hard, icy surface under foot.  There’s nothing in the toe to provide cushion or absorb the shock that an icy surface can transfer through the ski.  I love the Dynafit setup but it has its limitations, and isn’t a great choice for less than ideal inbounds conditions.  Not surprising, because that’s not what it was made for!

My Whiteface pre-release was similar to yours.  Skiing powder on Skyward I hit a transition to a hard, wind blown, icy stretch at speed.  No hard turn, no bumps, just a smooth transition onto ice.  All of a sudden a feeling something isn’t right, then I watch my right ski head off on its own.  The high speed yard sale  that followed could have been a lot worse, thankfully.  Cranked the bindings and added a pair of Dynafit leashes after that experience....

Loved your terrain selection! No matter how old we get there is still an idiot inside who comes out every so often. Obviously they did deal with flex😜
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Brian Izdepski, Facebook TAY
avajane
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #8 on: 12/08/17, 11:14 AM »

Elasticity is the winning answer. Makes perfect sense. I have seen my toe piece on an alpine binding go so far to the side it actually stayed there for a second and gave me time to pop back in, instead of taking a nasty early morning springtime fall on Gunbarrels’s huge hard bumps.

Which all comes nicely back to my original comment -‘stay safe out there. There are a great
Many ways these bindings can underperform an alpine setup.

Thanks all, I seem to have just a minor strain. Now the left knee hurts like the right one...Might balance me out better.😉⛷
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Brian Izdepski, Facebook TAY
Andrew Carey
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #9 on: 12/08/17, 06:30 PM »

Certainly icing in the pin pockets can be a problem; I suspect most of tech binding users have experienced such a pre-release--even after two strides of clicking in.  That's why Dynafit pins have a cutting edge and one is wise to rotate those pins a bit when first stepping in; I also use a lilttle silicon lube on the fittings to prevent icing but YMMV.  Elasticity is a major issue in skiing fast as well.

But remember flexing that influences heel pin retention only occurs on the rebound (bowed with tips and tails lower than the heel) not on the decambering (or with tips and tails higher than the foot as that compresses the heel of the binding against the heel of the boot); rebound is magnified at high speeds and on hard surfaces.  Of course "minding the gap" setting the gap between heel of boot and binding heel piece is a major requirement of effective use of tech bindings without spring-loaded mobile heels.
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... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
SKIER-X
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #10 on: 12/08/17, 08:02 PM »

 I have found that the safest best place for pin bindings is in the garbage . X
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rippy
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Re: Tech Binding Pre Release Dec 6,2017
« Reply #11 on: 01/09/18, 03:12 PM »

Had my first "surprise" release a couple weeks ago on Ion 10's. Smooth surface, hard underneath and a few inches of cut-up fluff over it. On the un-weighted segment of the turn where the ski (corrected: rebounds ), felt a big grab which was a brake. That occurs as I'm weighting the next turn. Ski is departing and I'm pulled around and barrel downhill over the remaining ski. Could not see any rocks around, ski bases no different, what was that all about? The Ion's heel has movement and the front pins claim to have excellent retention. Maybe shock and vibration can affect Tech-type binders? Really doubtful there was any snow/ ice problems and they navigated 2,300 feet of variable before doing the deed. Hhmmm?
« Last Edit: 01/10/18, 03:02 PM by rippy » Logged
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