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Author Topic: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge  (Read 35958 times)
juan
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #25 on: 01/26/06, 05:20 AM »

Update:

According to folks in the Skykomish Ranger Station, the area is USFS land, and there are no restrictions in motorized use on the front side.  However, no mo's are allowed past Skyline Lake, or past the upper cell tower, which means they cant go to the good skiing spots anyway. So lets just keep them honest to where they can access and maybe I'll try to catch a tow up the front side next time.

Cheers
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90%
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #26 on: 01/26/06, 05:52 AM »

A collective bunch of Leftist PC clowns.  Get over yourselves.  
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jdclimber
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #27 on: 01/26/06, 06:10 AM »

I have heard of people using orange ribbon stuffed in their boots on powder days in the event of skiis getting lost in a crash.
However, I have found about 100 yards of 30lb test fishing line works way better, but you gotta let it drag behind you. It has the added benefit of keeping rude sled heads away. Of course some sled heads are considerate outdoor people and some are something other than that (same issue with people in SUVs and people in general).

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wolfs
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #28 on: 01/26/06, 08:22 AM »

OK 90% troll, I'll bite.
If obeying the law is "leftist", that explains quite a bit of what I see happening in this country.
One usergroup with big overlap here that's seen a lot of access issues spiral out of control because of a few stubborn violators is climbers, particularly craggers. When they have cases where just a few people violate a bolt ban or cut private property lines, the usual reaction from either public agency or landowner is to close the whole thing and screw everyone. If you want a really messed up example run a search for "Dishman" on CascadeClimbers. I don't usually paint either the landowners or government as "leftist" in this very closely analogous case, it's just about what the law is and what the punishment turns out to be for breaking that law. If some usergroup has this kind of issue from either side, they need to communicate to resolve it. This is a user group for BC users, troll. We are communicating.
Now that I know the law and have been suggested a methodology, I'll be bringing my camera up. I've got no problem with helping to kick machines off the ridge in general because it's inappropriate per historical usage, and if documenting illegal boundary violations as leverage turns out to work, hot damn.
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BrianLee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #29 on: 01/26/06, 09:21 AM »

I am admittedly torn here and have avoided posting on this subject since I first saw it. Sleds in this area will cause many headaches for the FS ans Stevens. I know people who don't give a rats ass about whether it is legal to ride their snowmos wherever they damn well please and are only concerned with getting the best line possible. I usually berate these people for their offense of using motorized vehicles in the Wilderness. I am not sure Skyline is the place for this battle to play out. It would be great if the sleds stuck to the endless amount of terrain that is available for them in the surrounding areas, but I have to agree with those who say that once one finds it, many more will come. I worked at stevens for many years and know that we always thought taking a sled up there would be sweet. I have only been up there self powered. Don;t know where I am going with this, but if its soalce you are looking for, there are many options that you can use that you will never see a sled on your tour, but I do think that that the FS should stop sledders from going up on Skyline for saftey issues. I guess I will shut up now
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dberdinka
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #30 on: 01/26/06, 10:43 AM »

Quote

Snowmobiles are licensed. If you see a violator, get the number, or take a photo, turn 'em in.


Is this a realistic strategy?

Has this ever actually resulted in the ticketing or executation of snowmobilers in the state of Washington?
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #31 on: 01/26/06, 11:21 AM »

Quote


Is this a realistic strategy?

Has this ever actually resulted in the ticketing or executation of snowmobilers in the state of Washington?


The licenses are the size of a postage stamp.  Good luck getting close enough to take a picture of it!
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #32 on: 01/26/06, 12:35 PM »

It would be tough. If I was really motivated when seeing a snomo in the Wilderness, I can think of some ways to catch them at a stop and try to get the number. A photo would be easier. Perhaps catch them at the parking lot.

Perhaps we should ask our legislators to require prominent licensing on snowmobiles? Perhaps this user group (bc skiers) needs to be heard, speak up. There is $$ behind lobbying for snowmobiles. We should step up.

I would be interested to know if anyone sees snomos in Wilderness, when and where.
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nothing
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #33 on: 01/26/06, 01:35 PM »

i was up there sunday and was suprised to see the sleds.  although i'm a backcountry skier and wasn't overly excited to share tracks with those assisted by sleds, i didn't have a problem with them.  they have every right to be there that i do  (per juan's previous post regarding the skykomish ranger).  i'm not into special rights or entitlement just because i'm a backcountry skier.  if it gets to the point where the sleds bother me, i'll go somewhere else.  those of you that are concerned with safety should do the same (i didn't see a safety issue).  i recommend the lift assisted areas, where you can be safe and complain to the ski patrol if someone creates an unsafe condition.  sounds like one more war created by the "i'm special/entitled crowd".

can we talk about the people with dogs that poop on the skin track.
« Last Edit: 01/26/06, 01:36 PM by nothing » Logged
Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #34 on: 01/26/06, 02:08 PM »

Quote
the "i'm special/entitled crowd"

And who would that be? I think this particular bit of name-calling is in the eye of the beholder (could mean those who want to regulate others' land use, could be those who want to use their own or public land as they see fit, for instance, or those who want specific social freedoms that suit their lifestyles, or those who want to ensure our society promotes their sense of family values, the list goes on and on...).

This thread actually has a surprising amount of constructive discussion - no need to poop on it, you can just ignore it!
« Last Edit: 01/26/06, 02:10 PM by jim_oker » Logged
nothing
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #35 on: 01/26/06, 03:13 PM »

jim,

i agree that this is a constructive discussion.  my closing comment was not intended to minimize the importance of the topic or ridicule it. it was a vent about having to manuever around animal waste on the skin track last sunday.

- not a post pooper
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #36 on: 01/26/06, 05:32 PM »

Quote
it was a vent about having to manuever around animal waste on the skin track last sunday.


If that bothers you, you should just go to a national park, or somewhere where dogs aren't allowed.
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #37 on: 01/26/06, 05:43 PM »

And while I don't have a big issue with sleds there, since 1) it is allowed, 2) it's already a crowded area, not exactly peaceful, 3) they can only go on the south slope...
wouldn't it be a great place for those sled folks to introduce themselves to human-powered backcountry?  I mean c'mon, it's like a 30 minute climb to the top - it doesn't get any easier than that.  Taking a sled up there is like driving to the grocery store 2 blocks away.
It's just too bad that folks are afraid of a little exercise... that's the thing that upsets me most about seeing sleds there.
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90%
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #38 on: 01/26/06, 05:47 PM »

"This is a user group for BC users, troll. We are communicating."

Get over yourselves…get a clue…BC users should not be grouped in this ridiculous thread.  I have been “trolling” this site for 2 years looking at great pics and even better real time data. This site has pointed me in many prime directions of powdery travel.  My 1st  indulgence into this sadness is simply to say enough! Move on and look at the pics of Top of Table Mountain>
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jondufay
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #39 on: 01/26/06, 06:22 PM »

i think that there needs to be a united front, not the bc people against the snowmobilers.  the more people that we have advocating the recreational aspects of the land, the better off we are against developers and logging.  there is plenty of room out there for everybody.   you never know, it may be a snowmobiler that comes to your rescue in the backcountry. besides, we have convinced a few snowmobilers to give me us and our kakays a shuttle when the roads of trails are snowed in...can't we all just get along?
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wolfs
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #40 on: 01/27/06, 06:06 AM »

Sigh. Get over the fact that when I see snowmobiles for the first time in 20 years of touring there, in one of the most popular (traditionally) nonmotorized areas with reliable trailside parking and access in the Western Cascades, that I and others have the right to have opinions about it.
If I invest a day's effort going somewhere that I know snowmobiles are legal and might be, and I see them tracking up slopes in 20 minutes that could have been a whole day's turns, oh well, rolled the dice and lost.
Same thing in a wilderness area, I'll be pissed, and I'll at least give an anecdotal report to the rangers.
Same thing in an inbetween case  like Skyline Ridge is, where perhaps they are legal but I know for certain the precedent is there hasn't been motorized use before, I'm interested in hearing others opinions about but my personal opinion is I'd rather it stayed nonmotorized by tradition. And I do believe that if it keeps up either Stevens or USFS is going to get involved in some way.
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Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #41 on: 01/27/06, 06:21 AM »

90%, welcome! I look forward to seeing your own great pics and pointers to awesome powdery travel.
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Lowell_Skoog
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #42 on: 01/27/06, 06:58 AM »

Imagine that I'm really wealthy and I buy myself a Pisten Bully. I like to ski groomed slopes, but I don't like to ski with other lift skiers. So I go up on Skyline ridge and pack myself a nice big ballroom slope. I don't see why it should be a problem, since motorized access is legal up there.

90%, will you stand with me when the leftist PC clowns complain? If not, why not?
« Last Edit: 01/27/06, 09:15 AM by Lowell_Skoog » Logged
Scotsman
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #43 on: 01/27/06, 10:06 AM »

I've been waiting for someone to mention pisten bullys or snowcats. I am not rich but I have a share in a snow cat that my partners and I found when we where doing a remote project in Adak in the Aleutian chain. We bought it for vitually nothing and spent the entire summer renovating it. Trouble is we don't know what to do with it?
My friends have talked about taking it to snow-mobile areas but I have told them that's too dangerous as a snowmobiler could come around a corner too fast and crash into it. We contacted the Forest Service to ask where we could  use it for some snowcat skiing but they where just befuddled because they had no policy regarding privately owned snowcats.  >:(Silas Wild also has a snow cat that I helped move recently and he has the same problem.
I have a snowcat but don't know where to use it legally to get some skiing. Huh
Any ideas anybody?Prehaps I should start a new thread but Lowell's lead in was irresistable. Grin
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #44 on: 01/27/06, 10:24 AM »

Maybe Cascade Powder Cats near Stevens Pass would let you use their land :-)

http://www.cascadepowdercats.com/

In fact, I'm kind of suprised no one has brought this up on these forums this season... apparently the Leavenworth cat operation merged with the Snoq pass operation, and moved to Stevens this year.
I've often wondered about snomo-assisted skiing on the back side of Windy Ridge and Captain Point (in fact I scoped it out in December 2004, but found some key roads gated, w/o enough snow to cover the gate).  I bet they don't want snowmobiles in there now that they operate a cat (on what is apparently private land).
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Lowell_Skoog
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #45 on: 01/27/06, 11:01 AM »

Quote
We contacted the Forest Service to ask where we could  use it for some snowcat skiing but they where just befuddled because they had no policy regarding privately owned snowcats.


Which means there is probably no law or rule against it. So there may be nothing stopping you from driving your snowcat up Skyline ridge. Or even grooming it, assuming that you don't harm any trees. And yet, I doubt many people would consider that an appropriate use of the area, mainly due to historical usage. Which leads me to think that snowmobile access is also not appropriate.
« Last Edit: 01/27/06, 11:13 AM by Lowell_Skoog » Logged
gusk
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #46 on: 01/27/06, 03:10 PM »

Quote
I have a snowcat but don't know where to use it legally to get some skiing. Huh
Any ideas anybody?Prehaps I should start a new thread but Lowell's lead in was irresistable. Grin


Definitely start a thread on that one.  Would be awesome to hear how many folks actually have those.

While these might be spots to go in and just use it for access, couldn't you use it on any forest service road?  Some thoughts that come to mind.
Smith Brook Road, and anywhere above the Lake Wenatchee area?
Three Fingers access road?

What about up to Twin Lakes? or Mt Baker's south side.
Or Mt Adams?  I bet there are a few good spots above Index.

What's a snowcat's range anyways?





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Scotsman
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #47 on: 01/27/06, 04:24 PM »

Lowell, I completely agree with you that
Skyline ridge is an inappropriate place to use either a snowmobile or a snowcat .I ski there aswell and think it should be free of both.

However, if it is legal then the snowmobilers have a right  to be there without being hassled aslong as they don't endanger or hassle me.

However, those that don't think it is a good use for the area( and I am one of them) have the right to lobby the USFS to ban them. Until someone gets them banned it should be live and let live.

On the question of snowcats, I believe if I can find the right area, where I will not endanger anyone or cause damage, or add to congestion, then I should be allowed to reap the awards of the considerable effort I have put in to renovating the cat and enjoy some cat skiing.
My problem is I can't find any authority to tell me where  it would be legal.
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ron j
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #48 on: 01/28/06, 01:33 AM »

Quote
... My problem is I can't find any authority to tell me where it would be legal.
My guess is that you'll get lots of advice if you just find a place that works for you and start using it.  I might start with the area that CPC was using out of Snoqualmie.
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Scole
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #49 on: 01/28/06, 05:50 AM »

Quote

My guess is that you'll get lots of advice if you just find a place that works for you and start using it.  I might start with the area that CPC was using out of Snoqualmie.


My memory might be a little fuzzy but I believe they were using a combination of USFS *AND* Plum Creek Timber land.

Then again, the one time I did use CPC, we were greeted by a series of slednecks at one of the "innermost" portions of our day so who knows..  Huh
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