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Author Topic: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge  (Read 37800 times)
JimD
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Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« on: 01/24/06, 01:22 AM »

Last Sunday the trail up Heather/Skyline Ridge was repeatedly laped by a 4 machine crew of snomobilers ferrying a lazy ass bunch of snowboarders to the top. At least they were well behaved enough to politely pass us, and didn't blast down the slope cutting it up like many yahoo motorheads would, but it was quite a bummer. I wonder what if anything we can do about it. My thought would be talking to the ski area managment about a sign prohibiting unautorized snowmobiles on the access road (if I lived in one of the cabins I wouldn't have appreciated it). I'm more than willing to chip in some $ to pay for such a sign. Of course bone heads like this might not pay any attention. Angry
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altasnob
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #1 on: 01/24/06, 01:32 AM »

Are snowmobiles prohibited up there? If not, good luck getting the forest service to act quickly on anything.
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Skier X
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #2 on: 01/24/06, 05:58 AM »

Backcountry users seem to come in two flavors , motorheads and motorheads in denial. X
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #3 on: 01/24/06, 09:09 AM »

Dear Jim D:

Most of us would prefer to be away from snowmobiles while bc skiing. But such language and such assumption, presumption, assumed selfish pre-eminence, and preadolescent fit is certainly a bore.

Did you bother to speak to those offending individuals, or did you lack the courage? If you did not bother to speak to them, is your anger justified? Aside from offending you, how were they in the wrong ("well behaved")?

I would suggest don't be such a "lazy...", check your spelling, work on improving your vocabulary and verbal expressive ability, and go hike to a place that snowmobiles cannot go.

« Last Edit: 01/24/06, 09:16 AM by Randonnee » Logged
Skier X
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #4 on: 01/24/06, 10:34 AM »

Eloquent articulation Randonee,apropos.   X
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #5 on: 01/24/06, 10:55 AM »

That place is packed with people: skiers, snowshoers, hikers, kids sledding, etc... seems like a dangerous spot for snowmobiles.
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Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #6 on: 01/24/06, 11:26 AM »

Good grammar... err and point, Phil.  Wink

And those who have skied with me know I have no knee-jerk aversion to being around snowmobiles. In fact, I sometimes take great advantage of their trailbreaking and grooming functions.
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sean
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #7 on: 01/24/06, 12:40 PM »

A friend of mine was up there on that day and also told me he had seen snomobiles. I am pretty sure they our not allowed up there on the route, but I could be wrong. I have worked At Stevens for a couple years and have never seen them on the ridge in all the Winters I worked there.
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tdave
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #8 on: 01/24/06, 01:19 PM »

Quote
Good grammar... err and point, Phil.  Wink


Actually..."preadolescent fit" needs an article; and it would still be fairly awkward.
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Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #9 on: 01/24/06, 02:01 PM »

Quote


Actually..."preadolescent fit" needs an article; and it would still be fairly awkward.


That's not Phil you're editing there, but I was referring to him...
« Last Edit: 01/24/06, 02:02 PM by jim_oker » Logged
tdave
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #10 on: 01/24/06, 03:58 PM »

Oops, sorry. You're right, Phil's grammar is good.
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John Morrow
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 Please goRe: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #11 on: 01/25/06, 02:37 AM »

Perhaps JimD's language is a bit inflammatory, but many of us share his feelings.  Skyline Ridge is one of the shortest approaches around.  Perhaps those compelled to use machines to access there ought to stay in the lift assisted backcountry of the ski areas.  
Historically, Skyline has always been non-motorized.  Leave it for those who earn their turns by skinning up from the a parking lot.  There are many other places day touring skiers cannot access that are available for the snowmobile assist crowd.  Some simple map study will reveal thousands and thousands of acres of legal snowmobile assisted terrain out of reach of a day ski tour and outside of the wilderness.  Please go there.
Areas that have historically been non-motorized should stay that way.  We as a community should pursue legal closures with the USFS when courtesy no longer works.  Now is the time for us to make our concerns known.  So far this could be done without a single snowmobile groomed trail mile being lost.  My experience with the progression though is this:
First discovery by a few snowmobiles...
They tell snowmobiling friends...
Groomer councils advocate adding the area to groomed snowmobile routes, effectively eliminating all non-motorized users from wanting to go there.    
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #12 on: 01/25/06, 03:32 AM »

No snowmobiles in that area would be welcomed by most self-powered users. That would be fine with me. I am suggesting that one needs to take a reasonable and civil approach. It sounds like some are just getting all fired up and have not even discussed their concerns with the snowmobilers. There is no signage to prohibit  snowmobiles, so neither user has priority until something is established. If some of you want to make a change, find out who owns the land and contact them to express your concerns.

Thoughtless complaining, name calling, and swearing is not helpful. Similarly, neither are sideways chicken comments similar to the manner of Beavis and Butthead.

As far as I know, that is not USFS land nor is it owned by the ski area. It is likely that there is an established easement through the ski area cabins property. There is no precedent, I snowmobiled up there a few times to ski tour about 15 years ago. That is a summer road, I have driven it in summer for a rescue, and snowmobiles have been used there in winter for rescues. The road goes to the lake. I do not plan to snowmobile up there again, nor do I plan to cry and whine if I see a snowmobile there since I have no greater right to be there than that person on the snowmobile.

At times it would appear that some self powered bc users assume a selfish, superior, arrogant attitude. A disrespectful bc skier is no less annoying that a disrespectful snowmobiler. The joy of being self powered is that one can travel away from snowmobiles, other people, noise, etc.- I can easily travel out of hearing range of all the whiners rather quickly.

Snowmobilers (where allowed), those walking in a skin track, etc. all have an equal right to use that land.
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 06:25 AM by Randonnee » Logged
Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #13 on: 01/25/06, 05:21 AM »

Quote
A direspectful bc skier is no less annoying that a disrespectful snowmobiler.  

That is true, for sure. When I ski around bilers, I strive to interact positively with them. I've shared my food on ridgetops (and politely turned down offers of their beer). Other than perhaps the original post, I'm not seeing disrespect toward the motorized users in this thread (discussion as to whether use of a given area is appropriate is of course not in and of itself disrespectful). My quick take is a blend between Randonnee's and Phils - BC skiers have plenty of other options, and even w/o the biles that hillside is above an interstate and across from a busy ski area, but on the other hand it seems like a very short bile ride and at least moderate risk to mix them in with all the kids and such that are on the access trail most of the time (I have worried about my own metal edges being a hazard on that trail at times).
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #14 on: 01/25/06, 06:29 AM »

Good one. That uppity Randonnee should check his spelling, as well!

User groups sometimes make negative assumptions about other user groups. Those assumptions are sometimes accompanied by name calling. Name calling is a lot of fun, but does not accomplish much.

Oh, please- don't drag the kids into this. I tend to keep my six year-old daughter away from hazardous areas or activities.
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 06:31 AM by Randonnee » Logged
David_Coleman
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #15 on: 01/25/06, 07:06 AM »

Randonnee - as if you should be talking.  Coming from a fellow that ACCUSES Amar of Fraud simply because of a difference in the reported gas price at a station & what it said on his receipt! I think you need to work on your vocabulary with the assistance of a Thesaurus. Huh
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 07:08 AM by David_Coleman » Logged
Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #16 on: 01/25/06, 07:12 AM »

I didn't notice the typo until you pointed it out. I'm not intending to call anyone names, if "bilers" is an offensive term, let me know and I'll cease and desist. I certainly am not trying to paint you as "uppity" Randonee - sorry if you truly took my post in that light, though perhaps you're reading more into it than was there? I meant what I said about striving to interact positively, as I do ski around them a fair bit, and see no point in inflaming the us/them divide. I sometimes choose to ski in "their" terrain, and it's my own choice. The only snowmobilers that bug  me are the ones who violate closed areas or that accelerate as they pass at about 50MPH in such a way as to spray us with snow, but these are the rare exceptions. Mostly, they're just good family folk out for their own brand of fun.

Fact is, there have always been tons of kids on that path whenever I've gone there (about a decade of infrequent trips), so someone is dragging the kids into this, and it's not Phil or me. I doubt their parents are reading this board. Seems to me that both snowmobilers and wilderness cravers have plenty of other options than that one location. I don't go there enough to get my knickers in a twist or lobby the FS one way or another, I just found the discussion interesting and found some value in both your and Phils' points, and thought I'd say so.
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JimD
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #17 on: 01/25/06, 08:54 AM »

Dear Rando,

Sorry to bore you with my poor writing, selfish pre-eminence, and preadolescent fit. You are right on all counts - I'm afraid this incident brought out the worst in me. I admit to being a cranky old timer (with preadolescent tendencies when worked up) who does believe that muscle powered sports are better for both the practitioner and the environment than motorized. Of course the use of a car to get up there negates my ecological superiority, and why should I care if they get a good cardio work-out? I also admit to being selfish - I dislike the noise and smell of an ORV passing me - especially when seeking peace and quiet in an area that is traditionally machine free.  

I fully understand that it might be legal for them to be there, which is why I did not talk to them. Given the fact that they were blithely motoring up and down a trail being heavily used by skiers and snowshoers didn't lead me to believe it would do much good to argue that this was a traditional muscle powered area and their intrusion was unpleasant for others. I assumed their response would be, It is a free country, and they would be right. My partner and I tried to come up with an approach that might work, but decided it was better not to not rile them up (might cause snow rage) and make the situation worse.

The obvious answer is to avoid them (which is why I never climb the Easton Glacier on Baker until the trail melts out), but I have never seen snowmobiles here, so I did not think I had to worry about it. I love this little hill, especially on high avy danger days, so I will be very sad if it gets discovered as a snowmobile playground. We were lucky that the crew last week was well behaved; others may run up and down the slopes high marking. Hopefully the ski area can help us keep it machine free. If not I'll go somewhere else. Cool
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 08:57 AM by JimD » Logged
juan
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #18 on: 01/25/06, 09:17 AM »

I have seen the bilers up there this season too (and no I dont think this is an offensive term- I actually prefer bubblehead).  And yes, I did stop and speak with them, letting them know that I was under the impression the area was non-motorized.  He told me that the front side is usable, but not Heather Ridge and not the backside past Skyline lake, which leaves them only with some pretty flat and short terrain-and fairly lame IMO to deal with the burden of a snowmachine.

I am in the camp that thinks this area should stay non-motorized, due to the high usage.  I've skied near 50 days in this area and only seen the bilers this year.  I have called the Skykomish Ranger district to investigate and the preliminary report is that the entire area is USFS land, and that the front side was aquired in a land swap in 1997.  So if it is USFS, the next step is to find out what uses are permitted.  I'll update when I learn more.
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #19 on: 01/25/06, 09:31 AM »

I think it's likely to become a more and more frequent occurrence, give the rising popularity of backcountry skiing, especially sled-assisted bc skiing.
No self-respecting sledhead would go there for the sledding itself - your day would be done in 5 minutes.

I wonder if we'll see them on Arrowhead soon too...
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #20 on: 01/25/06, 09:42 AM »

Cool, Juan. Non-motorized designation would be good. The area is close to Wilderness.

JimD,
No apology necessary, and the intent was to encourage more productive communication. Don't get offended, as long as we don't swear and name call I say just argue back if you wish. We all get fired up, and sometimes certain language is not helpful.

It is hardly worth snowmobiling up there to ski tour. One point was that if no one told those snowmobilers that they were offensive, how would they know? Apparently they attempted to be considerate.

Hey Oker,
I think it was funny that I had a spelling error after pontificating! Serves me right. You can criticize me in fun or seriousness, I will not cry, but I do like to argue.



I have been a Forest user in about every category, and  I continue to use motorized travel appropriately on the Forest. I tend to react to one Forest user group assuming superiority to another. In my old-age-endless-quest for the elusive fitness of 20 years ago, I usually engage in self-powered travel now on the Forest.

FYI I have considered snowmobiling up the road to Arrowhead since the trees on the bottom grew in too thick to really ski falline up/ down from the RR trestle. But I usually avoid Arrowhead because there are often so many skiers up there.
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 09:48 AM by Randonnee » Logged
Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #21 on: 01/25/06, 10:24 AM »

Quote
Hey Oker,
I think it was funny that I had a spelling error after pontificating! Serves me right. You can criticize me in fun or seriousness, I will not cry, but I do like to argue.

I must admit, the humor was not lost on me after you pointed the typo out. Just wanted to be sure you didn't think I was calling anyone names. I like to debate too, as you may have gathered in the past  Wink.
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Scole
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #22 on: 01/25/06, 11:20 AM »


If for no other reason, I'm sure Stevens Pass would prefer it be snowmobile-free since the 'bilers would take up waaaay too much parking area with their trucks and trailers..
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wolfs
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #23 on: 01/25/06, 11:24 AM »

Like Phil points out, snomo assist is really a totally different usergroup than pure snomo (BTW Phil, do you still own that sled? Wink  ) The  Skyline riders probably wouldn't even care if the discrete snomo rider group that represents snowmobiling's public and policy-setting face stated they'd agree to not ride up there anymore. They're either taking turns or trading uptrack for sixpack, the sled is means to end.

I noted this same issue in a Skyline TR from a while back. My concern was more with them crossing the ridgeline eventually (someone will, they always do eventually, lines on the map mean nothing if you know enforcement is nil even in the most egregious cases), and perhaps to a lesser degree the inconvenience and collision risk of snomos on such a heavily traveled foot route.
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #24 on: 01/25/06, 12:33 PM »

Wolfs,

Great point. A closure near the base of the slope would buffer the Wilderness.

Snowmobiles are licensed. If you see a violator, get the number, or take a photo, turn 'em in.

I think that there is a lot more snomo terrain available than close-to-parking ski touring terrain.

I have been skiing Wedge Mtn. above Snow Lakes for over 20 years, sometimes snowmobiling the many miles of road to get there. It is not a great tour, but handy just above town.  For about 7 or 8 years now I have seen snomo tracks to the summit of Wedge Mt. I actually know the two brothers who do it. That ridgeline is the ALW boundary. It looks extreme to me- if you lost it at the top your machine could bounce down a kilovert of cliff face- so I think that limits much snowmobile use there so far. It is impressive where the sleds are going now.
« Last Edit: 01/25/06, 12:46 PM by Randonnee » Logged
juan
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #25 on: 01/26/06, 05:20 AM »

Update:

According to folks in the Skykomish Ranger Station, the area is USFS land, and there are no restrictions in motorized use on the front side.  However, no mo's are allowed past Skyline Lake, or past the upper cell tower, which means they cant go to the good skiing spots anyway. So lets just keep them honest to where they can access and maybe I'll try to catch a tow up the front side next time.

Cheers
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90%
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #26 on: 01/26/06, 05:52 AM »

A collective bunch of Leftist PC clowns.  Get over yourselves.  
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jdclimber
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #27 on: 01/26/06, 06:10 AM »

I have heard of people using orange ribbon stuffed in their boots on powder days in the event of skiis getting lost in a crash.
However, I have found about 100 yards of 30lb test fishing line works way better, but you gotta let it drag behind you. It has the added benefit of keeping rude sled heads away. Of course some sled heads are considerate outdoor people and some are something other than that (same issue with people in SUVs and people in general).

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wolfs
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #28 on: 01/26/06, 08:22 AM »

OK 90% troll, I'll bite.
If obeying the law is "leftist", that explains quite a bit of what I see happening in this country.
One usergroup with big overlap here that's seen a lot of access issues spiral out of control because of a few stubborn violators is climbers, particularly craggers. When they have cases where just a few people violate a bolt ban or cut private property lines, the usual reaction from either public agency or landowner is to close the whole thing and screw everyone. If you want a really messed up example run a search for "Dishman" on CascadeClimbers. I don't usually paint either the landowners or government as "leftist" in this very closely analogous case, it's just about what the law is and what the punishment turns out to be for breaking that law. If some usergroup has this kind of issue from either side, they need to communicate to resolve it. This is a user group for BC users, troll. We are communicating.
Now that I know the law and have been suggested a methodology, I'll be bringing my camera up. I've got no problem with helping to kick machines off the ridge in general because it's inappropriate per historical usage, and if documenting illegal boundary violations as leverage turns out to work, hot damn.
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BrianLee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #29 on: 01/26/06, 09:21 AM »

I am admittedly torn here and have avoided posting on this subject since I first saw it. Sleds in this area will cause many headaches for the FS ans Stevens. I know people who don't give a rats ass about whether it is legal to ride their snowmos wherever they damn well please and are only concerned with getting the best line possible. I usually berate these people for their offense of using motorized vehicles in the Wilderness. I am not sure Skyline is the place for this battle to play out. It would be great if the sleds stuck to the endless amount of terrain that is available for them in the surrounding areas, but I have to agree with those who say that once one finds it, many more will come. I worked at stevens for many years and know that we always thought taking a sled up there would be sweet. I have only been up there self powered. Don;t know where I am going with this, but if its soalce you are looking for, there are many options that you can use that you will never see a sled on your tour, but I do think that that the FS should stop sledders from going up on Skyline for saftey issues. I guess I will shut up now
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dberdinka
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #30 on: 01/26/06, 10:43 AM »

Quote

Snowmobiles are licensed. If you see a violator, get the number, or take a photo, turn 'em in.


Is this a realistic strategy?

Has this ever actually resulted in the ticketing or executation of snowmobilers in the state of Washington?
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #31 on: 01/26/06, 11:21 AM »

Quote


Is this a realistic strategy?

Has this ever actually resulted in the ticketing or executation of snowmobilers in the state of Washington?


The licenses are the size of a postage stamp.  Good luck getting close enough to take a picture of it!
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Randonnee
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #32 on: 01/26/06, 12:35 PM »

It would be tough. If I was really motivated when seeing a snomo in the Wilderness, I can think of some ways to catch them at a stop and try to get the number. A photo would be easier. Perhaps catch them at the parking lot.

Perhaps we should ask our legislators to require prominent licensing on snowmobiles? Perhaps this user group (bc skiers) needs to be heard, speak up. There is $$ behind lobbying for snowmobiles. We should step up.

I would be interested to know if anyone sees snomos in Wilderness, when and where.
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nothing
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #33 on: 01/26/06, 01:35 PM »

i was up there sunday and was suprised to see the sleds.  although i'm a backcountry skier and wasn't overly excited to share tracks with those assisted by sleds, i didn't have a problem with them.  they have every right to be there that i do  (per juan's previous post regarding the skykomish ranger).  i'm not into special rights or entitlement just because i'm a backcountry skier.  if it gets to the point where the sleds bother me, i'll go somewhere else.  those of you that are concerned with safety should do the same (i didn't see a safety issue).  i recommend the lift assisted areas, where you can be safe and complain to the ski patrol if someone creates an unsafe condition.  sounds like one more war created by the "i'm special/entitled crowd".

can we talk about the people with dogs that poop on the skin track.
« Last Edit: 01/26/06, 01:36 PM by nothing » Logged
Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #34 on: 01/26/06, 02:08 PM »

Quote
the "i'm special/entitled crowd"

And who would that be? I think this particular bit of name-calling is in the eye of the beholder (could mean those who want to regulate others' land use, could be those who want to use their own or public land as they see fit, for instance, or those who want specific social freedoms that suit their lifestyles, or those who want to ensure our society promotes their sense of family values, the list goes on and on...).

This thread actually has a surprising amount of constructive discussion - no need to poop on it, you can just ignore it!
« Last Edit: 01/26/06, 02:10 PM by jim_oker » Logged
nothing
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #35 on: 01/26/06, 03:13 PM »

jim,

i agree that this is a constructive discussion.  my closing comment was not intended to minimize the importance of the topic or ridicule it. it was a vent about having to manuever around animal waste on the skin track last sunday.

- not a post pooper
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #36 on: 01/26/06, 05:32 PM »

Quote
it was a vent about having to manuever around animal waste on the skin track last sunday.


If that bothers you, you should just go to a national park, or somewhere where dogs aren't allowed.
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #37 on: 01/26/06, 05:43 PM »

And while I don't have a big issue with sleds there, since 1) it is allowed, 2) it's already a crowded area, not exactly peaceful, 3) they can only go on the south slope...
wouldn't it be a great place for those sled folks to introduce themselves to human-powered backcountry?  I mean c'mon, it's like a 30 minute climb to the top - it doesn't get any easier than that.  Taking a sled up there is like driving to the grocery store 2 blocks away.
It's just too bad that folks are afraid of a little exercise... that's the thing that upsets me most about seeing sleds there.
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90%
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #38 on: 01/26/06, 05:47 PM »

"This is a user group for BC users, troll. We are communicating."

Get over yourselves…get a clue…BC users should not be grouped in this ridiculous thread.  I have been “trolling” this site for 2 years looking at great pics and even better real time data. This site has pointed me in many prime directions of powdery travel.  My 1st  indulgence into this sadness is simply to say enough! Move on and look at the pics of Top of Table Mountain>
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jondufay
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #39 on: 01/26/06, 06:22 PM »

i think that there needs to be a united front, not the bc people against the snowmobilers.  the more people that we have advocating the recreational aspects of the land, the better off we are against developers and logging.  there is plenty of room out there for everybody.   you never know, it may be a snowmobiler that comes to your rescue in the backcountry. besides, we have convinced a few snowmobilers to give me us and our kakays a shuttle when the roads of trails are snowed in...can't we all just get along?
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wolfs
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #40 on: 01/27/06, 06:06 AM »

Sigh. Get over the fact that when I see snowmobiles for the first time in 20 years of touring there, in one of the most popular (traditionally) nonmotorized areas with reliable trailside parking and access in the Western Cascades, that I and others have the right to have opinions about it.
If I invest a day's effort going somewhere that I know snowmobiles are legal and might be, and I see them tracking up slopes in 20 minutes that could have been a whole day's turns, oh well, rolled the dice and lost.
Same thing in a wilderness area, I'll be pissed, and I'll at least give an anecdotal report to the rangers.
Same thing in an inbetween case  like Skyline Ridge is, where perhaps they are legal but I know for certain the precedent is there hasn't been motorized use before, I'm interested in hearing others opinions about but my personal opinion is I'd rather it stayed nonmotorized by tradition. And I do believe that if it keeps up either Stevens or USFS is going to get involved in some way.
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Jim Oker
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #41 on: 01/27/06, 06:21 AM »

90%, welcome! I look forward to seeing your own great pics and pointers to awesome powdery travel.
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Lowell_Skoog
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #42 on: 01/27/06, 06:58 AM »

Imagine that I'm really wealthy and I buy myself a Pisten Bully. I like to ski groomed slopes, but I don't like to ski with other lift skiers. So I go up on Skyline ridge and pack myself a nice big ballroom slope. I don't see why it should be a problem, since motorized access is legal up there.

90%, will you stand with me when the leftist PC clowns complain? If not, why not?
« Last Edit: 01/27/06, 09:15 AM by Lowell_Skoog » Logged
Scotsman
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #43 on: 01/27/06, 10:06 AM »

I've been waiting for someone to mention pisten bullys or snowcats. I am not rich but I have a share in a snow cat that my partners and I found when we where doing a remote project in Adak in the Aleutian chain. We bought it for vitually nothing and spent the entire summer renovating it. Trouble is we don't know what to do with it?
My friends have talked about taking it to snow-mobile areas but I have told them that's too dangerous as a snowmobiler could come around a corner too fast and crash into it. We contacted the Forest Service to ask where we could  use it for some snowcat skiing but they where just befuddled because they had no policy regarding privately owned snowcats.  >:(Silas Wild also has a snow cat that I helped move recently and he has the same problem.
I have a snowcat but don't know where to use it legally to get some skiing. Huh
Any ideas anybody?Prehaps I should start a new thread but Lowell's lead in was irresistable. Grin
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philfort
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #44 on: 01/27/06, 10:24 AM »

Maybe Cascade Powder Cats near Stevens Pass would let you use their land :-)

http://www.cascadepowdercats.com/

In fact, I'm kind of suprised no one has brought this up on these forums this season... apparently the Leavenworth cat operation merged with the Snoq pass operation, and moved to Stevens this year.
I've often wondered about snomo-assisted skiing on the back side of Windy Ridge and Captain Point (in fact I scoped it out in December 2004, but found some key roads gated, w/o enough snow to cover the gate).  I bet they don't want snowmobiles in there now that they operate a cat (on what is apparently private land).
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Lowell_Skoog
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #45 on: 01/27/06, 11:01 AM »

Quote
We contacted the Forest Service to ask where we could  use it for some snowcat skiing but they where just befuddled because they had no policy regarding privately owned snowcats.


Which means there is probably no law or rule against it. So there may be nothing stopping you from driving your snowcat up Skyline ridge. Or even grooming it, assuming that you don't harm any trees. And yet, I doubt many people would consider that an appropriate use of the area, mainly due to historical usage. Which leads me to think that snowmobile access is also not appropriate.
« Last Edit: 01/27/06, 11:13 AM by Lowell_Skoog » Logged
gusk
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #46 on: 01/27/06, 03:10 PM »

Quote
I have a snowcat but don't know where to use it legally to get some skiing. Huh
Any ideas anybody?Prehaps I should start a new thread but Lowell's lead in was irresistable. Grin


Definitely start a thread on that one.  Would be awesome to hear how many folks actually have those.

While these might be spots to go in and just use it for access, couldn't you use it on any forest service road?  Some thoughts that come to mind.
Smith Brook Road, and anywhere above the Lake Wenatchee area?
Three Fingers access road?

What about up to Twin Lakes? or Mt Baker's south side.
Or Mt Adams?  I bet there are a few good spots above Index.

What's a snowcat's range anyways?





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Scotsman
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #47 on: 01/27/06, 04:24 PM »

Lowell, I completely agree with you that
Skyline ridge is an inappropriate place to use either a snowmobile or a snowcat .I ski there aswell and think it should be free of both.

However, if it is legal then the snowmobilers have a right  to be there without being hassled aslong as they don't endanger or hassle me.

However, those that don't think it is a good use for the area( and I am one of them) have the right to lobby the USFS to ban them. Until someone gets them banned it should be live and let live.

On the question of snowcats, I believe if I can find the right area, where I will not endanger anyone or cause damage, or add to congestion, then I should be allowed to reap the awards of the considerable effort I have put in to renovating the cat and enjoy some cat skiing.
My problem is I can't find any authority to tell me where  it would be legal.
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ron j
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #48 on: 01/28/06, 01:33 AM »

Quote
... My problem is I can't find any authority to tell me where it would be legal.
My guess is that you'll get lots of advice if you just find a place that works for you and start using it.  I might start with the area that CPC was using out of Snoqualmie.
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #49 on: 01/28/06, 05:50 AM »

Quote

My guess is that you'll get lots of advice if you just find a place that works for you and start using it.  I might start with the area that CPC was using out of Snoqualmie.


My memory might be a little fuzzy but I believe they were using a combination of USFS *AND* Plum Creek Timber land.

Then again, the one time I did use CPC, we were greeted by a series of slednecks at one of the "innermost" portions of our day so who knows..  Huh
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Re: Snomobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge
« Reply #50 on: 01/28/06, 03:09 PM »

I started a "snowmobile vs. skier" thread over in the Hot Air forum. I think this topic deserves its own thread, separate from this trip report.

http://www.turns-all-year.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=ha1;action=display;num=1138511078;start=0
« Last Edit: 01/28/06, 03:10 PM by Lowell_Skoog » Logged
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