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Author Topic: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder  (Read 5795 times)
cumulus
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April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« on: 04/11/17, 08:47 AM »

was going to head up early today before the sun gets to cookin' but didn't make it... so putting up some armchair fodder instead, from last Sunday -

Beautiful day out





Rob cloud surfing


looking back


« Last Edit: 04/12/17, 03:59 PM by mosetick » Logged

Stefan
flowing alpy
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Re: snoq armChair fodder 170409
« Reply #1 on: 04/12/17, 06:51 AM »

we still have a few open seats on the TGR bandwagon
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natefred
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Re: snoq armChair fodder 170409
« Reply #2 on: 04/12/17, 08:45 AM »

Geesh, he was just trying to put your post title into the site format and apparently botched it. When you say "last Sunday" on a Monday, it means the previous Sunday. Get a grip.
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cumulus
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Re: snoq armChair fodder 170409
« Reply #3 on: 04/12/17, 02:06 PM »

Geesh, he was just trying to put your post title into the site format and apparently botched it. When you say "last Sunday" on a Monday, it means the previous Sunday. Get a grip.

I think you would feel differently about it if someone were putting words in your mouth.  If he's going to botch it on all fronts (the date was there) perhaps he shouldn't be so cavalier about being invasive.

and btw I posted this on Tuesday, not Monday. Easy enough to read the date.

If mosetick had left a comment like anybody else, I would have had absolutely no problem with that.
« Last Edit: 04/12/17, 02:25 PM by cumulus » Logged

Stefan
mosetick
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Re: snoq armChair fodder 170409
« Reply #4 on: 04/12/17, 03:58 PM »

Cumulus, your insults have absolutely no effect me. Feel free to bash me as much or as often as you want. My only concern is that post titles in the trip reports section here use a title format that is accurate and relevant to the majority of the members and viewers of trip reports. If you can't do that, rather than attempt to correct your post title, we'll simply delete your posts.
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cumulus
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Re: snoq armChair fodder 170409
« Reply #5 on: 04/12/17, 04:51 PM »

Cumulus, your insults have absolutely no effect me. Feel free to bash me as much or as often as you want. My only concern is that post titles in the trip reports section here use a title format that is accurate and relevant to the majority of the members and viewers of trip reports. If you can't do that, rather than attempt to correct your post title, we'll simply delete your posts.

wow.

No apologies for screwing up my post..?  just a threat to comply with strict bureaucracy or I get kicked to the curb?

I always thought of skiing, and especially backcountry skiing, as a creative and playful sport, but apparently there's no room for that in trip reports?

And apparently it's OK that you can invade anybodies trip report and make fallacious edits with impunity? That you can make post titles and dates that are completely inaccurate and irrelevant, and yet hold everybody else to a different standard?

And you will delete posts that don't follow some strict rule that appears not even you can follow? 
And why is that even so important in the first place, this strict bureaucracy of title/date rules?  Nobody is forcing anybody to click on anything...  If you don't like it don't click on it, same as always.

And when you say "we" would it not be more accurate to say"I" ?  Or is there more than one mosetick?

I'm not going to be disingenuous and claim that your insults mean nothing to me. They do. I find it insulting that our trip reports can be so imperiously botched.

I'm missing the basic civility of Marcus and Charles already...


If you're going to wield the power of administrator please do so with civility and accuracy.

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Stefan
cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #6 on: 04/12/17, 05:24 PM »

I see. You deleted all the parts of this thread that show where you invaded my post and inserted an inaccurate date and title. Very convenient.

Thank god for the wayback machine.



* TAY_moseDeletes.jpg (243.38 KB, 800x576 - viewed 1912 times.)
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Stefan
mosetick
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #7 on: 04/12/17, 06:58 PM »

Dear Cumulus,
There is no strict hierarchy here. Just a bunch of skiers and boarders that enjoy trip reports that have meaning. We try to curate the post titles and put things in the right places when needed. This is also to help you, Cumulus, with your trip planning, so it goes both ways. If you are not comfortable with this, you should probably go elsewhere. Also, you accomplish nothing by insulting the administrators.

All members have been asked to read the Updated TAY Community Guidelines.

There is minimum expectation of decency.

Thanks and looking forward to your polite and meaningful contributions in the future!
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cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #8 on: 04/12/17, 08:47 PM »

There is no strict hierarchy here.

I wish that were true...  But everything about this thread proves otherwise. You have the power to invade and manipulate posts, as you have demonstrated several times here.

Think about it: if you posted a trip report and I were to trespass and manipulate what you wrote to something you never intended--and that was moreover completely inaccurate--while still containing your signature, you too would be rather disconcerted. Anybody would, including me.

You have the power to do that to anybodies post here. The inverse is not true.The majority of folks here on TAY do not have administrative powers. So for you to suggest there is no hierarchy is somewhat disingenuous.

I think most folks here would agree that trespassing and manipulation of a post would defy common TAY decency. That is what I am not comfortable with. That is what I'm reacting to.

You have this power; wield it wisely, judiciously and accurately. Such that it fulfills the guise of no hierarchy.


Anybody who has been on TAY for a while knows I post a decent amount and I've never had a problem until now.

If the winds of TAY are changing to an invasive and bureaucratic mindset, favoring the pedantic over the playful, you probably won't be seeing me here much.


All in all it was an interesting post... my title "armchair fodder" took on whole new unintended meanings...  that I rather wish it wouldn't have.  On the other hand, it should be in strong running for the "most titles of any TAY post ever" category ...also completely unintended...  I guess I have you to thank for that.  Thanks!
Good to be thankful for something, eh?   Wink

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Stefan
Chamois
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #9 on: 04/13/17, 02:12 PM »

There's always hope this whole thing gets deleted and spares us from further......
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cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #10 on: 04/14/17, 05:48 PM »

There's always hope this whole thing gets deleted and spares us from further......



totally agree with you Chamois. This thread sucks. I suck. Mosetick sucks. The whole damn thing sucks.

I don't even want to post again--but it would be great to put it all behind us.

So I need your help for this Mosetick.

I'll start--I apologize for any insults, I'm sorry I called you a moron... if we were in the same room I probably still would have called you a moron 'cause that's just the kind of dickhead I am... heh--no seriously, if you knew me you would know that it was only half serious and delivered with a grin. I realize that doesn't translate with the written so yeah, that was overkill on my end. Sorry. I realize I probably over-reacted.

Please understand it was a bit shocking when I looked for my post and couldn't find it--did I not post it??--but then saw my name--associated with a place I hadn't been to and some random date. And when you told me that you did this in order for the titles and dates to be more accurate and relevant... well that made it all the more frustrating. They were accurate and relevant when I first posted them--and then they weren't.

Anyhow that's water under the bridge. I don't really care about it. we all make mistakes. It would be nice if you could have acknowledged what you did... but maybe that's not even important either. I guess, going forward, it would be great if you could talk to me like a person rather than an administrator so that, like you say, there's no hierarchy here.

On a similar note it would be great to avoid situations like this in the future. Can we agree that we will try to resolve discrepancies more directly?  It would be great if you could alert with a PM or a comment rather than going straight to editing a post.  I think this whole thing could have easily been avoided that way.  I certainly don't want to do this again...

Alright, that's all I've got to say. You can pm or email me if you don't want to write here. ...or just buy me a beer! ha


PS  my wonky method of writing dates is something I do with all my photos--YearMonthDay--I think of it as metric since all photos (or whatever you label) resolve perfectly chronologically automatically in any database by title.
So sometimes I'll just cut and paste that for the title 'cause it's easy.


PSS  Got out this morning... was very reactive in the Snoqualmie environs when I left shortly after noon... top heavy snow around 4Kish. Prob better up over 5K, definitely more reactive than the trip in this post (170409) even though that day was 'considerable' and today was 'moderate'... go figure, you never know until you go. 
Just wanted to end this on a relevant note...


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Stefan
skibacks
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #11 on: 04/15/17, 01:10 PM »

"Relevantly decent" he said in appreciation of attempts to lighten up.
My best days are when I don't tak myself to seriously.  :-)
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skibacks
KLW
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #12 on: 04/15/17, 04:02 PM »

Nice job Mosetick. You'll have this place run into the ground in no time. I don't know what the fuck your plan is, but whatever it is, it's not going to work if you keep pulling stupid shit like this. Do you not understand that without people posting content here you are administrator of absolutely nothing and you'll be the direct cause of the end of TAY? In case you haven't noticed there isn't a mob beating down the gates to post TR's here anymore and if you start fucking with them without permission do you think that will incentivise MORE people to put in the time and energy to post free content for you on your message boards? If you don't want the job then give it to someone else and walk away. Or keep doing what you're doing and watch it crumble around you. The OP of this thread isn't the only one around here who's had you edit their posts without so much as a conversation or a comment and your attempts to cover up the fact that you're editing posts without permission makes you untrustworthy and obviously ill suited to administrate a gem of a site like this one.
« Last Edit: 04/15/17, 04:12 PM by KLW » Logged
mosetick
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #13 on: 04/17/17, 03:19 PM »

Quote from: cumulus
Can we agree that we will try to resolve discrepancies more directly? It would be great if you could alert with a PM or a comment rather than going straight to editing a post.  I think this whole thing could have easily been avoided that way.

Yeah man, I accept your apology. I'm sorry for changing the title of your post without alerting you. My only point was that since you did not include a 'specific' location in your title, nor in the post itself, it's overall relevance to the TAY community was marginalized. I prefer ISO 8601 standard date formats too. However, the long running tradition here is to use the drawn out date format. If you want to make a campaign for changing the date format for posts, please post something in Random Tracks and let's see what everyone else has to say.


Quote from: KLW
untrustworthy and obviously ill suited to administrate a gem of a site like this one

Thanks for your thoughts.
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cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #14 on: 04/17/17, 05:13 PM »


Thank you and likewise, I appreciate the apology.

My only point was that since you did not include a 'specific' location in your title, nor in the post itself, it's overall relevance to the TAY community was marginalized.

On this point I beg to differ... the location was both in my title and rendered visually in my post. It was no accident that I called it armChair. Think of it as verbally analogous to sussing out a creative line... just ask Mr. Tabke or any number of skiers here on TAY about that. I generally prefer not to spell it all out... good to leave something to the imagination.  Wink  I do appreciate your concern for the marginalization of my posts... but I'd rather be marginalized than forcefully edited any day.

As for the date, the one you labelled ISO 8601 just now, I would not use that unless I had full faith in my fellow TAYers ability to figure it out. We are a smart bunch here are we not? As such I could care less about the particulars of date rendering. Absolutely no desire to start a Random Tracks post. Just looking for a little flexibility and common courtesy.




Thank you KLW for the big picture view. Seems it's easy to lose the forest for the trees sometimes.
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Stefan
flowing alpy
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #15 on: 04/17/17, 08:40 PM »

I hope everyone feels better.
The armChair terminology was hilarious
TAY could use a bit of light humor,
though not the reason I'm lurking.
8^]
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Lowell_Skoog
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #16 on: 04/17/17, 10:01 PM »

My only point was that since you did not include a 'specific' location in your title, nor in the post itself, it's overall relevance to the TAY community was marginalized.

The original post was a teaser. Teasers are a perfectly valid sort of trip report.

I've never considered the format for a trip report title anything more than a suggestion.

cumulus' report included both the general location and the date. Everyone knows that "snoq" means Snoqualmie. And if you don't, just stick around for a week or two and it will become obvious. We were all newbies once.

TAY is not a guidebook or a textbook.  It's a culture.  When a culture becomes too regimented, it becomes boring and oppressive.  And brittle.  Not a good place to hang out.
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thatcherk1
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #17 on: 04/18/17, 06:44 AM »

This all reminds me, is there any work being done to migrate TAY to a more modern format, something easier for smartphone use? With a modernized Site, TRs could have a form where you select a date from a drop down and even put a pin drop on a map that will categorize TRs easily by date and General or specific location. Then the poster could still make creative titles. Just one of many benefits of modernizing.

On the other hand if it ain't broke, don't fix it. TAY stays pretty active despite the old fashioned design. And as a millennial with a beard who wears flannel and loves irony, I think there is something special about the dated style of TAY. It's like the days of angelfire sites. Can someone please add a hit counter and a midi loop to the main page?

That is all.
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mosetick
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #18 on: 04/18/17, 09:58 AM »

Quote from: Lowell_Skoog
TAY is not a guidebook or a textbook. It's a culture.

Thank you Lowell, it is in fact the culture that I care about most.

Quote from: thatcherk1
This all reminds me, is there any work being done to migrate TAY to a more modern format, something easier for smartphone use? With a modernized Site, TRs could have a form where you select a date from a drop down and even put a pin drop on a map that will categorize TRs easily by date and General or specific location. Then the poster could still make creative titles.

I think there is something special about the dated style of TAY.

Yes, I have started a behind the scenes effort to modernize the TAY site. No ETA at this point in time. Smartphone use, GPS style pins on a map, selecting a date from a drop down, etc, etc, are all items that I'm keen to include in the updated site.

The new site will not be flashy or eye catching, just functional on mobile and desktop with some modern day convenience.
« Last Edit: 04/19/17, 02:53 PM by mosetick » Logged
Stefan
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #19 on: 04/19/17, 09:02 AM »

I never thought of eating a sandwhich from the back of my hand.

New perspectives I see.  Maybe I will try.
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kamtron
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #20 on: 04/19/17, 10:09 AM »

Yes, I have started a behind the scenes effort to modernize the TAY site. No ETA at this point in time. Smartphone use, GPS style pins on a map, selecting a date from a drop down, etc, etc, are all items that I'm keen to include in the updated site.

I do not intend for the new site will not be flashy or eye catching, just functional on mobile and desktop with some modern day convenience.

Please include painless photo uploading!
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Jim Oker
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #21 on: 04/19/17, 10:14 AM »

The original post was a teaser. Teasers are a perfectly valid sort of trip report.

I've never considered the format for a trip report title anything more than a suggestion.
<snip>

Indeed, and I've both  posted and found others' posting of "general area conditions reports" (i.e. w/o specific route info)  to often be both relevant and useful  to me. Yes, I also appreciate and sometimes post more detailed and  specific trip reports - those are great too. But I'd hate to see the "general area conditions" reports stigmatized any further than they've  already been by community members who sometimes crab about the lack of further details (to which other  members reply that  they very much appreciate such reports!!). I'm sure we all  see some reports here that we wish were framed somehow differently, but as more than one member has noted above, trying to squeeze folks into or out of specific approaches is going to strangle the site dry.
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cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #22 on: 04/19/17, 08:09 PM »

I never thought of eating a sandwhich from the back of my hand.

New perspectives I see.  Maybe I will try.

That's hilarious!  I want to see you try.


Thanks for keeping things on topic.
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Stefan
freeski
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #23 on: 05/10/17, 01:27 PM »

The original post was a teaser. Teasers are a perfectly valid sort of trip report.

I've never considered the format for a trip report title anything more than a suggestion.

cumulus' report included both the general location and the date. Everyone knows that "snoq" means Snoqualmie. And if you don't, just stick around for a week or two and it will become obvious. We were all newbies once.

TAY is not a guidebook or a textbook.  It's a culture.  When a culture becomes too regimented, it becomes boring and oppressive.  And brittle.  Not a good place to hang out.

Lowell,I think that culture was a good choice of words

Webster's definition of culture"the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations".

I would say that when threads rise to the level of conduct that is demonstrated here, Maybe it's time for those with apparent anger issues to take a break from the addictive tendencies that social media can have upon a person.

What I've learned from this thread is that I can find my old posts that have been deleted from turns all year, repost them, throw a tantrum and then apologize and my once deleted posts will stand.

So the question I would ask is, is turns all year a culture worth continuing or do we recognize it as an imperfect medium for communication where deep-seated conflict is embedded. In other words is social media a failed experiment?

If it's not a failed experiment,
I would say extend an olive branch to those who have been banned from the site for similar Behavior that has been demonstrated on this thread.

While those that have been shunned may not wish to participate at least it would be a valid peace offering and demonstrate that this culture has a chance of surviving.
« Last Edit: 05/10/17, 01:32 PM by freeski » Logged

"I'm not making love to anyones wishes, only for that light I see." Cat Stevens
cumulus
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Re: April 9, 2017 snoq armChair fodder
« Reply #24 on: 05/12/17, 04:39 PM »

Lowell,I think that culture was a good choice of words

Webster's definition of culture"the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations".

I would say that when threads rise to the level of conduct that is demonstrated here, Maybe it's time for those with apparent anger issues to take a break from the addictive tendencies that social media can have upon a person.

What I've learned from this thread is that I can find my old posts that have been deleted from turns all year, repost them, throw a tantrum and then apologize and my once deleted posts will stand.

So the question I would ask is, is turns all year a culture worth continuing or do we recognize it as an imperfect medium for communication where deep-seated conflict is embedded. In other words is social media a failed experiment?

If it's not a failed experiment,
I would say extend an olive branch to those who have been banned from the site for similar Behavior that has been demonstrated on this thread.

While those that have been shunned may not wish to participate at least it would be a valid peace offering and demonstrate that this culture has a chance of surviving.


...as if this thread hasn't been hijacked enough already.

If you've got a bone to pick, and it sounds like you've got a few, take it to the pet store. Or start your own thread. If you've got something to say about the Snoqualmie environs or Chair Peak or anything relating to the original post, say it here. That's just basic etiquette.


My original post got hijacked from the get go. Hijacked and manipulated beyond my control.

Culture does not thrive under authoritarian manipulation and censorship and I resisted having my words forcefully and erroneously changed. I can't imagine anyone who would enjoy having words shoved down their throats.

As I have stated I certainly didn't enjoy having that position thrust upon me, but as a whole, with some contrition and humor, I feel that we came out ahead on the other side of this thread. I think that's a positive thing for everyone here. I believe my resistance bore a collective benefit. We came to a general agreement that posts here on TAY will not be edited without prior consent.

Your response feels like you never really read this thread. Like you missed the humor and levity.  Like you're just twisting Lowell's words as a pretext to project your personal issues. You are certainly free to do so, but I don't find it any more appropriate here than on many other threads here on TAY that you have similarly hijacked with your issues.

Please, take it somewhere else.



it would be a beautiful thing if we could lock this thread, I feel like it has run its course - - thank you!
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Stefan
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