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03/29/17, 04:01 AM

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Author Topic: Uphill policy in Ski areas  (Read 5085 times)
Chuck C
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #25 on: 02/16/17, 04:20 PM »

Quote-
The only way to fight prejustice is through education.
 
It used to be the only way to fight poor spelling too.  "prejudice", "waiver"  Smiley
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freeski
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Posts: 504


Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #26 on: 02/17/17, 06:06 AM »

It used to be the only way to fight poor spelling too.  "prejudice", "waiver"  Smiley
for sure my spelling is poor, i can read just fine, however words never look correct when i try to spell.

 may be due to a brain injury when i was in the 4th grade due to pnemonia and extreme dehydration. It took awhile for the exploding objects falling from the ski to go away. The monkies coming out of the walls were a trip. You may also notice that i don't have the normal social filters.

lucky for me, i took the iq tests before that illness occured, but i never thought that i belonged in the 'smart' classes that they used to divide us into.

BTW, i consider the whole thing  a gift. Life.

 
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"I'm not making love to anyones wishes, only for that light I see." Cat Stevens
kolockum
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #27 on: 02/17/17, 01:14 PM »

Quote- ''Dare I say start working with the snowmobile clubs because I hear similar rumbling from my sled-neck friends.''
unquote] i can see why you would say 'dare i say' on this site given the prejustice and bias that permiates TAY toward, as you call them 'sled-neck', which could be a consided a slur word onto itself.

Well, i'm a sled-neck and many of us build your houses, build offices, plow your roads, log, mine (where do you think copper and wood comes from), keep your ski areas working and do much of the physical labor that is required to sustain our communities, and we love what we do and why we do it.

 We take that overabundance of energy that was gifted to us and we rip on our days off.

The only way to fight prejustice is through education.

Relax. That was a friendly jab towards the anti-motorized guys. I have two sleds, one for me and one for anybody who wants to tag along and they get used almost as much as my skis. In my neck of the woods a lot of guys embrace the name especially after some of the land management meetings and internet bashing. And if you read my post I am a blue collar guy also.

Back on topic:
Don't forget about the Washington Winter Recreation Program that runs the Sno-Park areas. This program provides great services to all forms of recreation (motorized and non-motorized) and probably will be the most likely group to be responsive with our ideas. If you don't think that will work look at the group who worked with Olympic National Park to provided funding to open the Hurricane Ridge road several extra days during the week. And that was just skiers, no snowmobile or snowbike guys.
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Live Hard and Die Old
Stügie
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #28 on: 02/17/17, 04:54 PM »

Relax. That was a friendly jab towards the anti-motorized guys. I have two sleds, one for me and one for anybody who wants to tag along and they get used almost as much as my skis.

I'm down almost anytime that I can get time off. Wink
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"The mountains are not stadiums where I satisfy my ambitions to achieve; they are cathedrals, where I go to practice my religion."  -Anatoli Boukreev
~Link~
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #29 on: 02/18/17, 11:58 AM »

Avy control on the slide paths that cross those sections of 410 and the Sunrise Road would be apart of that equation of plowing to White River Camp Ground and/or Sunrise. 

I believe in the possibilities and that the money does indeed exist; I don't buy into governmental claims of lack of funding.  That's all code-speak for get active and make them do it.

A conscientious movement is needed.  These times of social-media reactivity, and ubiquitous distractions from devices, news, advertising, etc leads to a lot of finger pointing and apathy.  It's been documented that we receive more education on operating a motor vehicle than we do on applying the art/science of listening (Daniel Goleman, Emotional Intelligence).
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Ian
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #30 on: 02/20/17, 05:33 AM »

An example of a non-profit funding plowing operations: http://www.hyalite.org/what-we-do/winter-road-plowing

Doesn't cross any avalanche paths, but it does give the idea of what is possible with funding from a much smaller community.
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BRSmith
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #31 on: 02/21/17, 07:08 PM »

It seems to me that the first step towards beginning to address any of the problems discussed here is finding a unified voice with which to advocate for our community of users (as suggested by Martin, Kamtron, ~link~, and many others).

By my eye, TAY is about as close to this as currently exists (even with what seems to be a recent drop-off in use), but is not really formalized in any way, beyond whoever shows up to the forum. It has always baffled me that the backcountry skiing community in Washington has not organized in a more formal manner in order to advocate for themselves, as so many other local recreational groups have (see: Washington Climber's Coalition, Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance, Washington Trails Association among many others).

Obviously, there are many conflicting opinions even among our own community on what this advocacy would look like, but why not hash that out in the context of a unified organization? Everyone here is on this site because they enjoy skiing in the mountains, which I would think is enough to get us going in the right direction.

This sport is growing at an undeniably rapid rate, and it would stand to reason that access problems aren't going to get any better as long as there are more and more people trying to access the backcountry through the same limited access points. If (when) we, as a community, want to advocate for some kind of improved access - be it more parking, more plowing, better dispersion of users, whatever - we will have a more effective voice if it is unified.

Just my thoughts.
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BCSchonwald
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #32 on: 02/22/17, 07:45 AM »

For comparision to what other regions have"
http://backcountrymagazine.com/uphill-travel-guide-resort-skinning-policies/
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freeski
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Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #33 on: 02/24/17, 02:32 PM »

Hi all;
Backcountry skiing is popular. Getting to our beloved backcountry via the established access points like mountain passes and ski areas is also very popular because, well, you can actually get there.
Sometimes this creates a bit of conflict because bc skiers want to recreate on public lands and feel that seemingly restrictive uphill policies from various ski areas infringe on their basic rights of roaming the land.
I would like to speak to that.
When a ski area obtains a "Special Use Permit" from any Forest Service District, they have to go through a pretty painful process of submitting an Operating Plan among other things. Owning a guiding service, I am familiar with these hurdles. In this Operating Plan you have to state most and foremost how you are going to keep the resource intact and keep the public safe. Once this document has been approved, the Forest Service entitles the concessionaire to enforce the agreed upon rules on their terms and this is important to remember. This may mean that in order to ensure public safety during avalanche control, there have to be temporary closures of certain areas.
This makes a lot of sense, since this is the most efficient way to assure access for the recreating public as quickly as possible when (for example) doing avalanche control. If now the Dept of L and I gets involved because a ski area cannot assure safety for the public while doing avalanche control, you are uncorking a potential chain of events that we do not want to mess with.
It could mean that suddenly ski areas don't get to use explosives and have to therefore close areas for a longer time to ensure safety.
Furthermore, the Federal Land Management agencies hate the prospect of getting sued and I have personally seen them make very non-nuances safety decisions in order to avoid that potential. It could mean that they could just categorically shut down all uphill travel period in a particular Special Use Permit Area.
I really don't think that the bc community wants to go there.
Personally, I would like to advocate for strong communication with the various ski areas and trying to partner in increasing safety for all. This means basically that we need to be compliant on their turf. Remember, it is their Special Use Permit. It is crucial to realize that there would no bc ski industry in Washington without the ski areas. No shop would survive without the important ski culture contribution that our local ski areas bring to the bigger ski industry picture.
One thing that I agree with is that we could use more access to back country ski terrain. Here is where I would love to focus our energy. Washington State offers literally thousands of square miles of skiable backcountry terrain and only a small portion of it is accessible with a reasonable effort. If we could convince the Forest Service to keep a few more access points open (speak plow a few more roads), we would be a lot further along.
I have flown over our beloved Cascade Range for many hours during the making of the Washington ski touring book and I can assure you that the possibilities are endless.
Does any of this 'safety' talk have anything to do with guide outfitters partnering with ski areas for paid guided tours accessing the  ski resort side backcountry?

How do those programs work exactly? Is uphill ski area access to the bc going to cut into profits for these types of tours?

 
Nice touch on all that L & I shutting down explosives use at ski areas because of uphill traffic stuff. Really? Any Facts?

I would love to focus at least some energy on safety measures that would put an end to guides getting themselves and clients killed.

Let's start with transparency shall we?   
« Last Edit: 02/24/17, 02:49 PM by freeski » Logged

"I'm not making love to anyones wishes, only for that light I see." Cat Stevens
ron j
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Posts: 2566


Re: Uphill policy in Ski areas
« Reply #34 on: 02/24/17, 09:02 PM »

Does any of this 'safety' talk have anything to do with guide outfitters partnering with ski areas for paid guided tours accessing the  ski resort side backcountry?
How do those programs work exactly? Is uphill ski area access to the bc going to cut into profits for these types of tours?
Nice touch on all that L & I shutting down explosives use at ski areas because of uphill traffic stuff. Really? Any Facts?
I would love to focus at least some energy on safety measures that would put an end to guides getting themselves and clients killed.
Let's start with transparency shall we?   
Freeski, it seems like everyone else on this thread is discussing skinning in resorts and more access to more terrain for bc skiers. But you seem determined to keep trying to change the discussion to the same old worn out drum that you have been beating on for years implying that all professional guides are incompetent and/or killers.
Martin obviously took a lot of time to contribute to this topic with good and helpful information to add, which was on topic. But you have repeatedly quoted him and then made disparaging comments regarding guides and their safety practices. I think Martin is a pillar of our community and deserves better. And I have heard of nothing of him killing himself or his clients. If you want to rip on the guiding community at least have the decency to start your own thread so you can at least stay on topic. You have had a lot of you posts deleted in the past for good reason. This forum does not exist solely for you to conduct your personal war with the professional guide community. If you continue the way you at going you can again expect to see a lot of your posts disappearing.
« Last Edit: 02/24/17, 09:43 PM by ron j » Logged

"When I stop having fun I'm turnin' around"
"Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." - Niels Bohr
"If a given person makes it a priority not to die in an avalanche, he or she stands a very good chance of living a long, happy life in the mountains." - Jill Fredston
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