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04/28/17, 01:20 AM

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Author Topic: Dear NCH, go away please  (Read 8339 times)
freeski
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Dear NCH, go away please
« on: 01/17/17, 12:25 PM »

For the last two days i went into the North slopes of Blue Peak area to ski tour.

I chose that area because I was looking for a conservative terrain choice and because skiing down below (east of) cutthoad road is dangerous right now due to low cover and a snowpack that is rotten to the ground, making it easy to snag buried trees and rocks. These are the scraps that are usally available to us during the commericial heli operations.

On day one, i made sure i was seen touring up and the helicoptor relocated. This is how it's supposed to happen and was discussed during the 2002-3 Enviornmental Assesment as a way to limit your impact.

So thanks for following the rules on that day and it looks like your clients had fun ripping up what safe limited powder is availabe right now to human power skiers.

However, yesterday, your heli machine didn't leave. In fact, it flew right in over us and lingered while observing us right above our heads. And the sound caused my ears to ring. Then several more passes over us at a more respectable higher altitude.

And what about my safety? I hope that you can understand my concern about the risk you pose flying so close to me. After all, three helicoptors have already crashed under that special use permit.

It is obvious that our shared terrain policy is not working.

This is real conflict as was that last tree cutting incident.

My opinion is that the forest service is in violation of law by not successfully mitigating the impact of motorized use upon the public and the fragile envoirnment.

I am now fully recovered from that last tramatic experience which required me to file a police report. 

(my alligation)  Harrassment does work on some people and i did experience fear for awhile when ever i came to visit Mazama.

However, if i do not stand up to what i consider to be fear tactics, what kind of person am i?

I am ready to re-engage the forest service concerning these issuses.

My hope is that we can somehow peacefully co-exsist.

I believe that any heli activity has to take place on public land which can not be easily accessed by a human powered ski touring group from our points of departure along hwy 20.
« Last Edit: 02/08/17, 03:46 PM by mosetick » Logged

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snoqpass
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #1 on: 01/17/17, 03:51 PM »

I'm slightly confused here, you filed a police report because a helicopter flying over you was that traumatic?
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dkoelle
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #2 on: 01/17/17, 04:06 PM »

Ditto above.  Unpleasant but what is illegal?
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aaron_wright
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #3 on: 01/17/17, 04:21 PM »

It probably is illegal to fly less than 500 ft over a person if you know they're there.
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snoqpass
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #4 on: 01/17/17, 07:04 PM »

The way the post is written it sounds like he was touring in an area where NCH has a permit to operate
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aaron_wright
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #5 on: 01/17/17, 10:01 PM »

The way the post is written it sounds like he was touring in an area where NCH has a permit to operate
That doesn't make it legal to fly that close to people. Does their permit allow them to fly less than 500 ft over someone they can see, or the ground for than matter, unless it's to land in a designated landing zone? I don't know how close the heli was but they don't have free reign over their permit area. I would imagine if someone is standing in one of their approved landing zones they aren't allowed to land on top of them.
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AlpineRose
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #6 on: 01/17/17, 10:09 PM »

Sounds like a thoroughly unpleasant experience.  Helicopters are like flying snowmobiles, eh?  The world of wild snow is certainly getting to be a more crowded place, with multiple (ab)users all wanting their piece (as in, go get some).  The usual response to complaints of this type (i.e., too many skiers, dogs, snowshoers, snomos, and so on) is to point out how there is so much space available and why don't you just go elsewhere...blah,blah,blah.  Therefore, I'll fine tune my "wild snow" statement to say the world of wild snow reasonably accessible by the average human is getting much more scarce.

Although I sympathize with your plight, I'm curious how you get to those places where you run into conflicts with heliskiers.  Would it perchance be by snowmobile?  Hwy 20 past the winter closure would be a pleasant Nordic ski if it weren't for snomos.    
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andyrew
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #7 on: 01/17/17, 11:49 PM »

For me, anyways, it's still been a more-or-less pleasant nordic ski, only having been passed by snow mobiles briefly in the mornings and evenings.  Often times you can even skate it since it's been packed down.
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Pete_H
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #8 on: 01/18/17, 08:30 AM »

Wouldn't be much of a "Nordic" ski, if you are referring to groomed track skiing, without snomos packing it down in the first place.
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snoqpass
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #9 on: 01/18/17, 09:46 AM »

That doesn't make it legal to fly that close to people. Does their permit allow them to fly less than 500 ft over someone they can see, or the ground for than matter, unless it's to land in a designated landing zone? I don't know how close the heli was but they don't have free reign over their permit area. I would imagine if someone is standing in one of their approved landing zones they aren't allowed to land on top of them.
It possible they didn't see the group right away then kept their distance but given the OPs and NCHs history it's anybody's quess either way the post isn't clear
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Good2Go
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #10 on: 01/18/17, 10:07 AM »

Methow locals have a laughable sense of ownership and entitlement when it comes to untracked snow on public land.  Makes it all the more enjoyable to smash "your" pow with my sled and my skis. In fact, I think I'll do just that this weekend.  Thanks for the inspiration!
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BCSchonwald
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #11 on: 01/18/17, 11:05 AM »

How many miles did you snowmobile in? Would you chose the same terrain if you skinned in from the gate? How many other people used a snowmobile to get to similar terrain?
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aaron_wright
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #12 on: 01/18/17, 12:11 PM »

How many miles did you snowmobile in? Would you chose the same terrain if you skinned in from the gate? How many other people used a snowmobile to get to similar terrain?

Everyone uses snowmobiles up there, what does that have to do with being buzzed by a helicopter. Would it make a difference if he skinned the whole way? I don't know how close the heli was but have you ever had a heli 50' over you? How about a 100'? I have and it's an uncomfortable position to be in even if you're ready for them to land.
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Good2Go
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #13 on: 01/18/17, 12:42 PM »

Get a grip!  There's no way they intentionally buzzed this guy.  You think the pilot would risk his license to mess with this kook?  He's a seasonal hired gun. Plus, they have clients on board, etc.  Totally defies common sense.  It's also totally ridiculous to claim that the presence of the heli is endangering you, because it might fall out of the sky.  I feel sorry for law enforcement and the FS having to deal with this vendetta.  I skied several days up there last season with the heli operating in the same valley (Willow Creek - which is great - everybody hit it ASAP) and had no issues whatsoever.  Better get used to sharing, because backcountry skiing is blowing up and good used sleds can be purchased for around $3k. If anybody wants beta on where to go at WA Pass, hit me up. I'm blowing that spot up as much as possible from now on.
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BCSchonwald
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #14 on: 01/18/17, 01:54 PM »

Everyone uses snowmobiles up there, what does that have to do with being buzzed by a helicopter. Would it make a difference if he skinned the whole way? I don't know how close the heli was but have you ever had a heli 50' over you? How about a 100'? I have and it's an uncomfortable position to be in even if you're ready for them to land.
Exactly, it would. Each group is using mechanized access, so the vehicle does not matter. In the Wasatch human powered access trumps mechanized. Up at WA Pass crowding is by choice so not sure why the drama.

And yes I have been around helicopters and never found myself terrorized, not like in 'Nam...
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aaron_wright
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #15 on: 01/18/17, 03:11 PM »

I have no problem with NCH operating in the area or with snowmobiles. I'm just saying that if they did fly too close to this guy and knew he was there that's illegal. I haven't been "terrorized" by helicopters but I have worked in close proximity to them and it can make you uncomfortable until you get used to it.

I bet Good2go would say that the employees of NCH would never cut and clear unauthorized landing zones either.
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Good2Go
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #16 on: 01/18/17, 03:34 PM »

Oh really?!?  In my book there's a huge difference between cutting trees in the name of safety and intentionally menacing somebody with a heli.  One is believable, the other isn't.  NCH got busted for the trees and now they operate on "pins and needles".  You think they're going to risk their permit over this guy?  If so, you're more of a sucker than I originally thought.
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aaron_wright
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #17 on: 01/18/17, 04:21 PM »

I'm not a sucker, people are unpredictable and do strange things. I'm not even saying the op was buzzed.
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Good2Go
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #18 on: 01/18/17, 07:38 PM »

Sorry man, that was uncalled for. You were taking the OP at his word. This guys rants just push my buttons.
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str8ryder
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #19 on: 01/18/17, 10:57 PM »

Apparently to this self-righteous hypocrite, a 30 mile round-trip sled ride equals "human powered". Are you sure you ears weren't ringing from that 15 mile approach on your snowmachine? Your mode of access must have left you traumatized. Walk from the gate and earn some credibility bud.
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Scotsman
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #20 on: 01/18/17, 11:15 PM »

I was on the heli that day ......see photo.

We tried to get him but the bugger kept zigzagging!!!

Its a very exclusive, very expensive charter tour they offer that I helped put together called " Tag  Freeski "

Non-lethal paintball gun with of course, bio-degradable paint.
I got the idea after reading of Mike Rolf's tour with his skeet gun.
Then I read of Sarah Palin shooting wolves from a heli and it seemed the logical next step.
As they say, you haven't really hunted until you've hunted humans.



* nchfreeski.jpg (100.45 KB, 1000x562 - viewed 1414 times.)
« Last Edit: 01/18/17, 11:52 PM by Scotsman » Logged

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shred
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #21 on: 01/19/17, 06:19 AM »

Get some!!
https://youtu.be/DiufKFfnrfA
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Pete_H
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #22 on: 01/19/17, 08:22 AM »

"How can you possibly shoot backcountry skiers and snowboarders!?"

"Easy. Just have to lead 'em a little bit more."
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cumulus
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #23 on: 01/19/17, 09:25 AM »


Sure it's easy to jump on the cruel joke bandwagon... seems there's been plenty of that going round lately... look where that got us, Dumpster elect.

I got no opinion on the OP, just uncomfortable with the direction of the thread, kinda funny but kinda not funny.
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Stefan
David_Lowry
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Re: Dear NCH, go away please
« Reply #24 on: 01/19/17, 09:50 AM »

No joke, dark angel medical makes some nice blowout kits.

But yeah, like pointing a firearm, I wish folks wouldn't do that unless they mean it.
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