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11/21/17, 07:46 AM

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Author Topic: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow  (Read 5715 times)
bwalt822
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1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« on: 01/10/17, 06:43 PM »

We played hookey from work to enjoy the bluebird powder day that was promised and it definitely paid off.  Took three laps in cold fast boot top powder on Herman saddle and then followed a skin track up towards the south facing slope of Mt Herman where we were in for a treat.  For we were following the skin track of the Queen Regent of Mt Herman himself!

Normally meeting  Bagley Lakes drainage royalty would be exciting but the Queen Regent was not pleased with us.  He condescendingly referred to us as "followers" and decreed that we should have stayed over on Herman Saddle where there was plenty of terrain.  He must come to this secret pow stash to ski with only a chosen few.  We stopped well short of his chosen line and transitioned. The Queen Regent then stated that we were not to ski over the skin track.  I regret to inform his majesty that we did indeed cross the skin track a couple times while skiinng the awesome snow.

« Last Edit: 01/10/17, 08:21 PM by bwalt822 » Logged
kneel turner
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #1 on: 01/10/17, 08:18 PM »

Ha! Awesome.
I'm pretty sure Silas and I ran into the queen at Bear Gap a few weeks ago.  Good to see he's getting out.
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Scotsman
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #2 on: 01/10/17, 08:58 PM »

You are of course free to go wherever you choose and do what you want, however there are a few rules of back-county etiquette and style that if would be good to consider.

#1 if you follow somebodies skin track , on meeting them you should first thank them for it and compliment them on it.. hopefully you did.
#2 Not excusing his grumpiness... but you were" followers".
#3 Looking at the picture above, skintrack has been crossed and turns are all crossed and over the place... your track is your signature and many backcountry skiers as they become more experienced consider the track they and their partners leave to be a mater of style and want to make them beautiful( evenly spaced, nice shape etc). In busy areas ( and especially with the growing numbers)  it has the added result that nice farmed turns  saves good snow for others.
#4 if you can  avoid crossing a skin-track you should... You should have.

He certainly isn't entitled to tell you to piss off, however imo your posted response is a bit boorish and us older curmudgeons would really wish you younger folks would consider some good old fashioned backcountry manners and style.
Also by referring to him as a queen are you being homophobic.? Why not call him Prince Regent?

I of course have broken all the rules above .
« Last Edit: 01/10/17, 09:01 PM by Scotsman » Logged

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bwalt822
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #3 on: 01/10/17, 09:21 PM »

We didnt get a chance to thank them. We were shouted at from a couple hundred feet above.  It was a very nice skin track however. 

Everyone it there that day was a follower including anyone who broke trail as this it's a week used area even on a Tuesday.  It was the tone that was at issue.

The picture above wasn't from the area in question.  Everyone skis differently including the radius of their turns so its not always practical to nest them perfectly.  It's also not a big deal if my partners cross my tracks and leave some bad handwriting on the mountain. There are better things to worry about.

I've never had any issues with ski tracks across a skin track up mellow terrain.  Of course you don't want to blow out critical kick turns but a crossing it a couple times isn't a big deal.  There was no need to bark instructions at us in that situation.

This was literally the first negative interaction I've had with anyone backcountry skiing since I started.

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Scotsman
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/17, 09:53 PM »

Well, thanks for the reply.

I must beg to differ on the question of crossed, irregular tracks taking up a large portion of a slope, "bad handwriting" as you so aptly put it.

It's not a question of turns being closely nestled as in classic farming but turns being nicely spaced and not crossing. I guess it's a question of aesthetics.

Skiing a slope with you and your partners turns looking nice I think enhances the mountain whereas I cringe when I see tracks like in the picture above.

I remember looking at two sets of perfect tracks from the top of the Interglacier to the bottom, no other tracks, just these two perfect tracks. I couldn't stop looking at them and admiring not only the skill and control that it took to make them but they were aesthetically pleasing and beautiful. I'm sure whomever put them in enjoyed placing them and looking at them afterwards..double pleasure.
I even photographed them.

Im still trying to emulate them, probably never will... but I try and fail most of the time.
Just an opinion...you are entitled to yours.
Namaste.
« Last Edit: 01/10/17, 09:57 PM by Scotsman » Logged

Chief Etiquette Officer of TAY and TAY's #1 Poster
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" Knows what he is talking about"
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" Scotsman may be correct"....Mikerolfs
dberdinka
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #5 on: 01/10/17, 10:08 PM »

If you can't handle other people being around the LAST place you should be skiing is Bagely Lakes Basin.   And getting bent about turns over a skin track is ridiculous.  $&@# that guy.  Ski as you wish.

How were the winds affecting snow quality during the day?
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AlpineRose
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #6 on: 01/11/17, 12:08 AM »

Two words:  good grief.
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bwalt822
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #7 on: 01/11/17, 06:13 AM »

The winds weren't hurting the snow for the most part except maybe near the very top of Herman saddle.  Before that they were helping fill tracks if anything.

Scotsman, I agree that when possible we should try to take up as little snow as practical. I generally try to make my turns nice.

I also dont want to blow this situation up to much, this wasn't a shouting match or anything, just some comments directed our way.  I was just trying to write about a weird situation that we mostly found perplexingly humorous.  We couldn't understand why someone would be so protective of such a large area.  It's not like we followed then up some couloir that they had to wait for us to get out of the way.
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skier8484
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #8 on: 01/11/17, 06:26 AM »

It's hilarious how some Baker locals view Herman as their secret stash. Keep shredding and having fun!
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Jason4
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #9 on: 01/11/17, 08:38 AM »

Typically my touring partner opens the 8s and I close them. 
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altasnob
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #10 on: 01/11/17, 09:45 AM »

Figure 8s waste too much pow. We all need to work on farming turns a la the famed agrarian of the Wasatch.


« Last Edit: 01/11/17, 11:08 AM by altasnob » Logged
jwplotz
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #11 on: 01/11/17, 01:29 PM »

A powder slope is like an Etch a Sketch.  It eventually all gets erased anyway. 
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Troy
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #12 on: 01/11/17, 03:38 PM »

Like many issues in the backcountry I've seen lately, it's about manners, and common decency.  These goals are elusive in the age of Trump, but I suggest the following:

- defer to those that have set a skin track for you to follow, you owe them your day of pow

- enjoy your freedom to do as you wish

- help educate others that don't know what you know

I usually don't spend much time in popular areas so I don't have to deal with others that much.  Usually, it's dealing with snowshoers that mess up our uptrack completely.  Let's all be tolerant and share the stoke.
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Scottk
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #13 on: 01/11/17, 04:37 PM »

I find spiritual bliss in free and unconstrained high-speed GS turns that respond to the seductive curves of glacially sculpted slopes.  I could never find peace in the totalitarian confines of a scripted Zen garden.  To each their own.

Scott
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aaron_wright
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #14 on: 01/11/17, 05:01 PM »

We played hookey from work to enjoy the bluebird powder day that was promised and it definitely paid off.  Took three laps in cold fast boot top powder on Herman saddle and then followed a skin track up towards the south facing slope of Mt Herman where we were in for a treat.  For we were following the skin track of the Queen Regent of Mt Herman himself!

Normally meeting  Bagley Lakes drainage royalty would be exciting but the Queen Regent was not pleased with us.  He condescendingly referred to us as "followers" and decreed that we should have stayed over on Herman Saddle where there was plenty of terrain.  He must come to this secret pow stash to ski with only a chosen few.  We stopped well short of his chosen line and transitioned. The Queen Regent then stated that we were not to ski over the skin track.  I regret to inform his majesty that we did indeed cross the skin track a couple times while skiinng the awesome snow.



The tracks in this picture are an abomination.
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haggis
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #15 on: 01/11/17, 05:27 PM »

Look fine to me, wish I was there.  If you have to blow over the skin track then do a hop and its all good.  If you climb up the slope then ski down it however you chose, this ain't the Augusta Country club.
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Salal
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #16 on: 01/11/17, 05:36 PM »

 Roadside blowhards and spooning tracks. Yuck on both fronts.
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Troy
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #17 on: 01/11/17, 05:50 PM »

Some of us are out there every day.  We know what the weekend warriors are up to.  Let's strive to ensure we all have the max fun for all.  I'll be breaking trail tomorrow and I hope others will also have a great time.

Cheers.
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slacker
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #18 on: 01/11/17, 09:40 PM »

I of course have broken all the rules above .

I too did 3 laps on Herman on Tuesday. I put the skin track in at 730 am. Lots of riders followed. No one thanked me. I don't care but I appreciate manners. . 95% or more of the people I meet in the backcountry are happy, friendly, and respectful.
I have asked around about his nibs and have been assured that he is the owner of mt Herman.  Man that's great!  How do I  get to own a mountain  too?

Anyways thanks for keeping it real Scotsman. Yours is the quote of the thread.  It says experienced, balanced and honest. Desirable  qualities in any touring partner
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bwalt822
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #19 on: 01/12/17, 07:48 AM »

I too did 3 laps on Herman on Tuesday. I put the skin track in at 730 am. Lots of riders followed. No one thanked me. I don't care but I appreciate manners. . 95% or more of the people I meet in the backcountry are happy, friendly, and respectful.
I have asked around about his nibs and have been assured that he is the owner of mt Herman.  Man that's great!  How do I  get to own a mountain  too?

Anyways thanks for keeping it real Scotsman. Yours is the quote of the thread.  It says experienced, balanced and honest. Desirable  qualities in any touring partner

Just to keep readers from being confused, the area I'm talking about is west of where your skin track turned up hill from bagley lakes.  I think many people refer to the sub peak that butts to Bagley lakes as mt herman.  Im not sure what the colloquial name for where our last lap was.
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blackdog102395
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #20 on: 01/12/17, 07:58 AM »

Snowshoeing in the skin track, ignorance vs. high risk tolerance, sharing secret stashes on TAY...but this surpasses them all for inanity.  Holy Hell!  Manners and respect are generally good for social interaction and good will.  I typically support them, but to try and dictate how someone lays down tracks in the backcountry is straight up absurd.  We are past the point of no return.  If you go to places like Bagley Lakes on a blue bird day with fresh snow, you better be prepared to share it with LOTs of people all doing their own thing.  If you are worried about laying down some perfect S turns and being able to admire your work from afar, then you better take your ass afar to begin with.
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powersa
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #21 on: 01/12/17, 09:43 AM »

IMHO skiing is one of the most extreme privileges that exist on the planet. Backcountry skiing is even further up the list. I keep that in mind when I'm out there, and when I read threads like these.

Whether we like it our not, we're a community. We share resources that no individual owns (terrain, water, air). The number of people vying for those resources is on the rise. Change is tough. People are sensitive. If we want to have shared values, we should keep talking about what they might be and do so constructively.
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blackdog102395
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #22 on: 01/12/17, 10:18 AM »

Constructive conversation is always a good thing, but the topic in of itself must have value in the first place.  For me, any discussion of  the appropriateness of one's turns holds little positive benefit to the community.  I just can't wrap my head around the idea of there being an "appropriate" way to lay down tracks in the backcountry, but I don't think of powder as a commodity or resource that is to be preserved as long as possible for the other users around me.  Maybe this is selfish, but it's not my concern whether I leave any space for untracked turns on a face I am skiing.  Especially in the sidecountry.  Powder is there to use by whoever gets there first and in any manner they choose to use it.  For me the answer with these threads is always the same and always simple.  Go further.  Go farther.  To expect to have everyone come to an agreed understanding about skin tracks, turns, etc in the side country is wholly unreasonable.   Turns are as individual as the person making them.  Who is anyone to tell another person how to make them?!?!? 
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discostew
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #23 on: 01/12/17, 12:47 PM »

if i'm following in someone's track and i get a chance to speak to him/her, i will always say thanks and offer to take over, and the trailbreaker always gets to drop in first. if, however, anyone tells me where/where not to ride, and how to make turns, i will arc a few 100m long 100m wide trenches and do my best to make sure that he/she crosses them, cause f@#k those people
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blackdog102395
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Re: 1/10/2017 Herman Saddle Pow
« Reply #24 on: 01/12/17, 01:24 PM »

if i'm following in someone's track and i get a chance to speak to him/her, i will always say thanks and offer to take over, and the trailbreaker always gets to drop in first. if, however, anyone tells me where/where not to ride, and how to make turns, i will arc a few 100m long 100m wide trenches and do my best to make sure that he/she crosses them, cause f@#k those people

Yep.  Look, I don't want to cross anyone's tracks ever.  If given the choice, I don't want anyone trashing my perfectly sculpted S turns either.  I turn like crazy.  I love turning.  I love looking back at my turns from the bottom.  I love looking at my turns on the skin out.  However, to think I can dictate what some else does with their turns or even "educate" them on what an "appropriate" turn looks like,   smacks of backcountry elitism.
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