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Author Topic: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!  (Read 7052 times)
Andrew Carey
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Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« on: 12/23/16, 03:19 PM »

(1) holiday season lots of families unused to snow going to Paradise.
(2) This morning I arrived at the Longmire Gate ˝ hour after it opened and still had to wait in line about 10 minutes because the LEO was checking every AWD and 4WD to determine if their tires had "M+S" on the sidewall, if not turn aroiund and put chains on.  Note that the signs almost always say "Chains require ... except on AWD with traction tires."  With all these flatlanders coming up with their kids it appears the LEOs are being judiciiously cautious and checking for traction (M+S) tires.
(3) Leaving the mountain today, I was behind people with chains who appeared to be scared to death by the packed snow and ice and poor visibility.  Not so the Casino enthusianst in a Toyota Tundra with his family  behind me who decided to pass 3 SUVs on a blind curve becuase the lead car was going so slow.  Be aware, be prepared to be patient, and to deal with those who can not be patient.
(4)  I found 5 inches of very nice powder on Mazama but it was lying on hard ice crust with no bonding whatsoever.  Winds were blowing pretty good above treeline and by the time I left I experience a grauple storm and heavy snow blowing sideways.

I stayed to low angle slopes.  YMMV
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... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
flowing alpy
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #1 on: 12/24/16, 04:59 AM »

I can't wait till they add a sledding park and dedicated wi-fi!
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Andrew Carey
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #2 on: 12/24/16, 06:51 AM »

I can't wait till they add a sledding park and dedicated wi-fi!

The sledding park is open.
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... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
vogtski
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #3 on: 12/24/16, 06:59 AM »

Yesterday was the first day of operation for the snowplay / sliding area (no hard-runner sleds or toboggans, for safety).  I must say the design is much improved over last year's, which had runs so long they interfered with the trail to Edith Basin and frightened away some of the customers who'd waited over a half-hour in line.  I had a nice chat with a couple staff, who seemed open to establishing gates near the access ramp with roped lanes to try to help separate the through-traffic from the snowplayers. 
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I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
jds
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #4 on: 12/24/16, 09:26 AM »

Are they checking for chains in AWD cars?
Not intending to distract from this topic, but I've read about that issue in other threads on this site and I'm curious what the current requirements are. (We have AWD plus winter snow tires and are wondering if we need to get chains.)
Thanks for any info on this!
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blackdog102395
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #5 on: 12/24/16, 10:51 AM »

Are they checking for chains in AWD cars?
Not intending to distract from this topic, but I've read about that issue in other threads on this site and I'm curious what the current requirements are. (We have AWD plus winter snow tires and are wondering if we need to get chains.)
Thanks for any info on this!

I've never been asked to put them on my Suby Crosstrek, but they have checked to see if I have them...made me open the tailgate and show them. You have to carry chains in the winter every time you head up to Paradise.  They can turn you around if they want, regardless of 4wd/Awd.

I do not have mud and snow tires.  I was planning on going on Monday.  The thought of chaining up when never having to ever before has me thinking about heading to Hood instead.  I have a very low tolerance for such things.
« Last Edit: 12/24/16, 11:15 AM by blackdog102395 » Logged
davidG
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #6 on: 12/24/16, 11:09 AM »

I wonder how the Park feels about the AutoSock .  Not as durable as chains, but work quite well, are easy to install and don't create the clearance issues some cars have with chains, not to mention the warranty issue of some car makers.
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"Maybe we should ban hikers from anywhere that there is a potential threat to surface water?"   [courtesy Newtrout, 2011]

"Good for you for getting it and thank goodness I wasn't there with you."  [courtesy mikerolfs, 2014]
Andrew Carey
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #7 on: 12/24/16, 11:39 AM »

@ JDS: Yes, there have been days when the Park has required putting chains on AWD/4WD with M+S (Mud and Snow) tires.

Frequently they will ask AWD/4WD if they have chains; they sometimes then ask to see the chains.

@DavidG: Yes, the Autosock is being recommended by the Park. IMHO because they have gotten so much blowback from smart AWD owners whose manual says do not use chains (like Subaru; and like many vehicles with 20 inch wheels).

IMHO, smart AWD with winter tires--temp sensitive rubber, snow clearance channels, hard knobs on edges, ceramic beads/walnut shells provide the best wet/icy/compact snow/snow covered pavement traction; Hakkepellita with studs are the best for ice and snow (not as good for wet); but I don't want studs..  To be better, chains have to be on all 4 wheels (can't do that on my Subaru according to manual or on my Jeep because the 20-inch wheels + tires are too close to the steering linkage in the front).  But the Park can mandate chains so I have chains that can be used on the rear in both vehicles but never had to use them (because of potential damage to the vehicle or its computer--but since I live so close I would turn around and go home anyway when conditions are that bad--like I did this morning.

the best alternative to chains I've seen pictures of are clamps that fit over the tires and that are tightened done by a ratchet at wheel center--even saw a car with them on in the park the other day.
Logged

... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
Andrew Carey
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #8 on: 12/24/16, 12:54 PM »

autosock review

PUTlinkTEXThere
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... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
jds
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #9 on: 12/24/16, 02:46 PM »

Thanks for the replies!

Andrew Carey, we just got the winter snow tires as a safer alternative to the M+S, and the suggestions for the autosock or chains for the rear wheels are appreciated.

(For our older FWD VW wagon we have always used true snow tires in the winter and they make a big difference. We also carry 'low profile' chains for emergency, but never want to be driving when they are needed!)
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AlpineRose
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #10 on: 12/24/16, 05:21 PM »

The chains topic comes up with some regularity.  The requirement to C-A-R-R-Y chains in winter applies to A-L-L vehicles and not just on the road to Paradise.  It also applies to mountain passes and where posted, such as between Greenwater and Crystal Mountain.  The WSP is not moved by what your owner's manual says.  On one particularly bad day, I saw AWD/4WDs without chains in their vehicles being turned around on Hwy 2.
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weaver
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #11 on: 12/24/16, 05:58 PM »

..the best alternative to chains I've seen pictures of are clamps that fit over the tires and that are tightened done by a ratchet at wheel center--even saw a car with them on in the park the other day...

They are 'spike-spiders'. They are pricey and they work.
« Last Edit: 12/24/16, 06:41 PM by weaver » Logged

boom lacka lacka lacka boom lacka lacka lacka boom lacka lacka lacka boom
flowing alpy
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #12 on: 12/24/16, 06:43 PM »

I heart chains required days
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aaron_wright
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #13 on: 12/25/16, 08:14 AM »

..the best alternative to chains I've seen pictures of are clamps that fit over the tires and that are tightened done by a ratchet at wheel center--even saw a car with them on in the park the other day...

They are 'spike-spiders'. They are pricey and they work.
The CHP used to use those, maybe still do, in CA. Lots of front wheel drive cars with those in the mountains down there. They work very well and are very easy to put on.  http://www.spikes-spiders.com/
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vogtski
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #14 on: 12/25/16, 08:42 AM »

I don't mind NPS folks being able to spend Christmas with their families, but surely this 'Closed... insufficient staff' announcement could have been made sooner than 8:12 of a bluebird powder day:
https://twitter.com/MountRainierNPS/status/813054945519730688
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I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
blackdog102395
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #15 on: 12/25/16, 10:57 AM »

Gate now open.
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Andrew Carey
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #16 on: 12/25/16, 04:49 PM »

Lost snowhoer found; spent the night w/o any of the 10 essentials; Rangers surprised he made it alive.
Logged

... want your own private skintrack? Better move to the yukon dude. (B'ham Allen, 2011).
...USA: government of the people by corporate proxies for business.

Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
flowing alpy
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #17 on: 12/26/16, 06:22 PM »

Probably didn't know the strength of a full blown snowhoer.
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davidG
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #18 on: 12/26/16, 06:41 PM »

I'm throwin down 20 bucks that not five people in a row here can agree on the '10 essentials'
Logged

"Maybe we should ban hikers from anywhere that there is a potential threat to surface water?"   [courtesy Newtrout, 2011]

"Good for you for getting it and thank goodness I wasn't there with you."  [courtesy mikerolfs, 2014]
blackdog102395
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #19 on: 12/26/16, 07:01 PM »

I'm throwin down 20 bucks that not five people in a row here can agree on the '10 essentials'

BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER
BEER

That should improve the odds considerably.

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davidG
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Re: Paradise Riders: Be Prepared!
« Reply #20 on: 12/26/16, 07:10 PM »

all proceeds to number 5.  It will suck to be #4...
Logged

"Maybe we should ban hikers from anywhere that there is a potential threat to surface water?"   [courtesy Newtrout, 2011]

"Good for you for getting it and thank goodness I wasn't there with you."  [courtesy mikerolfs, 2014]
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