Newbie Advice (Etiquette Etc.)

I want to earn a few turns this summer for the first time. The photos and trip reports on this page are inspiring. I've never been AT skiing before, so I was going to buy my first set-up before heading out. After calculating expenses, I've decided to wait before purchasing new gear.

I short: How dumb is it to just boot up a couple hills with my standard equip? Is avalanche safety a bigger/lesser concern in summer? I'm trying to read as much as I can, but maybe some of you can shorten the learning curve.

I'm heading out to RMNP in mid-June, maybe head out to Rainier mid-July.

Plenty of people hike to Camp Muir in the summer with regular alpine skis and boots strapped to their packs -- avalanche hazard is a fairly low concern June-July-August -- unless a recent storm has dumped 18+ inches of new snow. (which can happen)

Watch the weather reports carefully: www.atmos.washington.edu/data/rainier_report.html

I would only go when a sunny and low wind day is in the forecast -- but note that conditions can change very quickly as Mt Rainier tends to generate its own weather. 

While hiking up, be sure to "look over your shoulder" periodically and look for clouds or fog forming and heading your way and be willing to head down quickly before getting enveloped by clouds.   Skiing the Muir snowfield in the fog is not enjoyable -- and it has killed a number of people over the decades.

Also be sure to bring very dark sunglasses and SPF-50+ sunscreen -- a baseball cap + bandana to shade the face and neck are very useful to avoid getting fried.  I've seen the combination of high altitude, reflective snow and long summer days result in 2nd degree burns (blisters) on unprotected skin.

The park service desk at the Jackson visitor center has a handy map with compass points that can help you navigate back from the Muir Snowfield in the fog if you do get caught -- you need to know how to use a map and compass.   You can download and print out a copy before you go: www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/upload/ca...arings-map-oct11.pdf

Buying used gear off craigslist or the "yard sale" section can save a lot of coin www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi.../index.php?board=5.0

Excellent advice! Thanks! Rainier is much more likely now

with some fear of getting eviscerated here by saying avy concern is less of an issue in the summer....it is less of a concern for ME in the late spring and summer. There are still risks but not so much those that are associated with winter snow cycle.

I don't think it would be particularly dumb to boot up a hill with your standard stuff as long as you're prepared.

Not sure how RMNP is faring but I think things will be a little meager/towards the end on Rainier in Mid July as far as skiing is concerned, maybe others can offer more encouraging feedback.

Might consider doing a few rentals from local gear shops, most have demo AT setups, as indeed it is a bit of a steep cost curve to jump into fullon AT kit, especially when you include the concomitant safety equipment and training. Would let you at least get a feel if you're on the fence about it or want to try some things before committing to a size of ski/skin/brand of binding/etc.

I'm mostly going to be hiking, but whenever possible I'd rather be earning turns; nothing too huge. I'll be in RMNP until June 25th (tentative Flattop Mountain, Sundance Bowl), then up to Glacier Park until the 4th, then maybe west over to Whistler/Rainier for a week or two if I'm not burnt out or broke.

In the summer months, I often find it faster to take waterproof shoes and A-Frame my ski's (AT Setup) and not skin up from Pebble Creek to Muir towards mid/late summer. However, that being said, take your own skis, strap them on your back and hike them up. Have fun.

Sunny days are keys for this if you're new, and lots of sunscreen/water/food. Take your camera and enjoy the hike.

Thanks! Also: Any snow-specific equipment that I might not have that you would say is mandatory (for that location/season)? Maybe ice axe, Yak Trax, etc.?

I'm concerned about white-out conditions, so I have my eTrek (GPS) + map/compass. I've been at the top of several resort lifts (Timberline, Steamboat, A-Basin, etc.) that became near white-out (which provoked an extremely unsettling feeling

Will possible "quick storms" be more likely in the afternoon?

At the park entrance ask for the blue map. It is a free sheet they hand out that has a crude map on it but it also has the bearings from several sight points to the next, etc. As you go up LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER (as said) and get comfortable with the bearings--you may need to repeat them coming down in dense fog.

Dunno if Panorama face will still be skiable in late July, but for a newbie/timid traveller who's a good skier (like me) that is the only pitch worth skiing. There are others but they're off the beaten track. Nothing wrong with stashing the ski gear at the top of Panorama point and walking the rest of the way.

If you have gaiters for your running shoes that is ideal. If you have yak traxx or similar that will help in the early morning. You can also wrap rough tape a foot or so below your pole grips for a shorter grip on the way up. Take your poles all the way up!

Summer snow conditions are fairly stable but use your own judgement. If there was a hard freeze overnight and Pan face is icy, decide on the way up whether you want to come back down it. It's not a difficult ski slope but it can be a rather exciting glissade.

John is right to make note of Pan Face. It's the only steep pitch you have to contend with on the way to Muir. It can present difficulties for some getting up it when it's firm, and has been the site of avalanche accidents. Even if your skills and comfort level are good, the boot pack can get backed up by those who are less comfortable. Some folks might like an ice axe or whippit - having one may allow you to bypass the gong show of the main bootpack and go your own way. If you have arrest skills I would just bring an ice axe, it being your first time there.

I have to disagree that Pan Face is the only part worth skiing though, the upper snowfield can be a complete pleasure to cruise down!

Whiteout is no joke, I learned that the hard way on my first visit as a total newbie straight from the northeast. I got completely disoriented and nauseous in a whiteout, had to take my skis off and walk down, checking compass bearings the whole way and still almost missed the parking lot at Paradise - which would have been bad. First day of summer that year and in a blizzard!

Will possible "quick storms" be more likely in the afternoon?

That's more of Rockies thing -- the west side of the Cascades doesn't tend to have the "afternoon thunderstorm" pattern that can happen in Colorado (and to a lesser extent, the east side of the Cascades)

Weather on Mt Rainier is (for the most part) driven by what is flowing in from the ocean (which lies to the southwest, not too far away) Because Mt Rainier sticks up so much more than the surrounding mountains -- clouds form to a much greater extent around it than other less bumpy bits of the cascades.

Maybe twice in four decades have I encountered "lightning hazards" on Cascade volcanoes -- once on "old" Mt St Helens and once on the Muir snowfield. In both cases -- as soon as St Elmo's fire started buzzing on pointy metal things in our group we headed down immediately and were lucky.

As for other gear -- stuff like a whippet and crampons do make travel easier and safer, but add weight and cost Plenty of people make the trek to Muir without such items -- passing Panorama Point is the spot where these are of the most use, but there tends to be so much traffic that way that -- unless you head up very early in the morning, there will be a well established boot pack up Pan Face before you get there.

For safety the most important thing to use is your brain/gut -- if footing seems marginal -- turn around -- or wait until the sun softens the snow a bit more or someone else kicks a deeper set of steps.

Whiteout is no joke, I learned that the hard way on my first visit as a total newbie straight from the northeast. I got completely disoriented and nauseous in a whiteout, had to take my skis off and walk down, checking compass bearings the whole way and still almost missed the parking lot at Paradise - which would have been bad. First day of summer that year and in a blizzard!

Man, that's terrifying! Did you learn anything from that experience, like something you should have planned or done differently? Was it avoidable, in retrospect?

All the above advice is good. If you go to Paradise on a summer weekend get there EARLY! Arrive mid-morning and you'll be walking a mile just to get to the parking lot - it's a circus. That said the 4.5 mile summer conga line to Muir gives a person a certain amount of comfort when going solo - safety in numbers and all that. Climbing rangers and/or guides flag the route to Muir and the hundreds who are ahead of you will have kicked in steps so you'll know the way up.

I can't think of a better place to pack your alpine skis uphill to get the flavor of backcountry skiing and the view from the Muir Snowfield on a sunny day is extraordinary. Good luck.

(Ditto on the rental option. Check out Pro Ski in North Bend).

You could take my approach and only go to Muir on days with a clear/sunny forecast. I don't mess with a partly sunny/partly cloudy forecasts. I agree it's good to check if clouds are rolling in while hiking up. I got in a dense white-out once but luckily I was already near the top of pan point. There's always a boot pack to follow, but I managed to lose it based on making turns or something. I heard some nearby voices and met up with a few other people. We slowly proceeded down and we went a bit too far skiers right of the parking lot but figured it out. After that I decided if I'm going to do the 3 hour drive to Paradise from my house, it's going to be on clear days only.

Man, that's terrifying! Did you learn anything from that experience, like something you should have planned or done differently? Was it avoidable, in retrospect?

Sure, we should have thought about the forecast more carefully, talked to experienced people and taken their advice! Also, we shouldn't have been young and care-free! Just kidding about that! Doesn't seem that long ago, but in those days I got my forecast from the evening news. We were young, stoked to be where there was snow in summer, and keen to explore regardless of conditions. So we'd pick someplace we could find snow and go there on the weekend and take whatever came our way.

We should have turned around when it started dumping snow (or before)! Instead, we ran up the bootpack to get to Muir before the tracks disappeared! All in all it was actually a good experience that I'll remember until my mind drifts south. It was the first time I saw a barrel marked human waste, and first summer snow storm!

Had a similar day on St Helens that first year in the PNW. Up, up, and up we went in the cloud, until visibility was down to 20' or so and we were upon a slope that steepened suddenly. Probably just a little wind feature in retrospect, but it made us realize we could possibly stumble off something or take a fall and get hurt. We turned around and descended to better visibility and better skiing, even though it was drizzling down under the cloud .

All the information available now makes for more informed choices & "better" experiences but kind of takes some of the fun out of it too.

All the information available now makes for more informed choices & "better" experiences but kind of takes some of the fun out of it too.

Ha! Classic!

I'm psyched. Driving from Calgary-ish July 4-ish. Can anyone chime in on whether it's worth stopping by Whistler for a few lift/glacier runs? Maybe even for the novelty? I've never skiied Whistler, and it's kind of on the way, but I'm also ready to hit Rainier.

I'm psyched. Driving from Calgary-ish July 4-ish. Can anyone chime in on whether it's worth stopping by Whistler for a few lift/glacier runs? Maybe even for the novelty? I've never skiied Whistler, and it's kind of on the way, but I'm also ready to hit Rainier.

Whistler isn't really on the way to Calgary from Washington... Would recommend you skip the crowds and ski one of the numerous pocket glaciers in the Selkirks/Purcells/Rockies. Mt. McCrae out of Revelstoke is the easiest, but countless others are available by way of logging roads. Just make sure you bring a can of bear spray with you (; Perhaps Farnham will still be good, but I suspect it may not look so pretty by that time, this year.

Whistler isn't really on the way to Calgary from Washington... Would recommend you skip the crowds and ski one of the numerous pocket glaciers in the Selkirks/Purcells/Rockies. Mt. McCrae out of Revelstoke is the easiest, but countless others are available by way of logging roads. Just make sure you bring a can of bear spray with you (; Perhaps Farnham will still be good, but I suspect it may not look so pretty by that time, this year.

Good tips; any other season-worthy spots by name (between Calgary and Rainier)?

Skier of the "HOOD" apparently could not recall the location of North America's best lift-served summer runs. While technically not between Calgary and Rainier, it's easier to get to from the Seattle area than Rainier is.

Coming this far, you should do a quick shot down to [name withheld]. Four lanes of freeway the whole way, it's a doable day trip.

If your a newbie Chinook Pass is a good place to go this time of year. You have 2 peaks and many different lines to chose from, its easy access and parking is not bad. I was up there last weekend with my son and it was great. Still 10-20 feet at the road level, the best place to park is the parking on the east side of the summit. Lots of others hiking so its not hard to see where to go.

If your a newbie Chinook Pass is a good place to go this time of year.  You have 2 peaks and many different lines to chose from, its easy access and parking is not bad. I was up there last weekend with my son and it was great.  Still 10-20 feet at the road level, the best place to park is the parking on the east side of the summit.  Lots of others hiking so its not hard to see where to go. 

Good tips...how's the Avalanche hazard here in July? I'm going solo, with no backcountry snow experience beyond resorts; any must reads before going up?

No avalanche danger on Naches Peak (Chinook Pass) but be mindful of the cornices.

Give Charlie's thoughts on spring skiing a read:

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=36616.0