warped Dynafit TLT 6 boots

Is there an acceptable level of discrepancy in symmetry between the left and right tech ski boot in the industry?

I recently made the discovery that my Dynafit TLT6 boots were significantly asymmetrical. It was the third time mounting bindings for these boots. I've never got the boots to fit 100% smoothly into any of the binding mounts but I always figured the discrepancy was in the mount--easy enough to do. It was inconceivable to me that a boot I payed several hundred dollars for could be defective so it never crossed my mind to check that. But after the third mount I was frustrated enough at the results (I was super meticulous mounting them) that I delved a bit further into examining the situation. This is what I found:

the right boot would slot well on ski1 and ski2:


but the left boot was significantly off on both ski1 and ski2:


I've tested this dozens of times letting the boots down gently and the left boot consistently comes down to the left of the tech heel pins whereas the right boot slots right in. Even without the pins the difference is 4mm+ between the boots. Boots are straight out of the box, no mods.

In the past there were times where I would have to slam my boots into downhill mode more than once due to the boot hitting and being repelled by the pins. This can't be good, so I contacted the Dynafit/Salewa folks in Boulder.

I went through three weeks of back and forth with the the Dynafit/Salewa folks, even sent in my boots. Essentially (after the standard "you need to re-mount your binding") I was told by Mike Eisenbrown the Warranty Coordinator (tester) that "there's nothing wrong with your boots".  He refused to directly address the discrepancy of my boots being quite obviously not symmetrical and not slotting equally. I pressed him to do an easy test: just use the toe piece, mark where the boot heel comes down for the left boot, and the right boot. To this he answered that  "they are within 1mm of each other." I've measured it too and it's a solid 4mm. I guess after telling me there's 'nothing wrong with your boot' he had to downplay it? And lie? Or maybe he didn't even bother measuring it... in any case, bizarre behaviour from the dynafit warranty folks.  My last email asking for an explanation of the seeming huge discrepancies went unanswered.

What a weird experience...  I was even starting to doubt myself.  So I got my boots back and once again tested them. Did the same experiment that I had proposed to Mike Eisenbrown. Here's the results:

RIGHT boot:


LEFT boot:


test set up-


I invite anybody to do the same test with these boots and I am 100% confident they will find the same results.  Not sure what they're smoking over there at Dynafit.

I guess it's true about what folks are saying about Dynafit over in the thread cascadeclimber started recently.


After this experience I'm done with Dynafit.
Quality control and standing behind your product seem to be a thing of the past for them.  Lots of other options these days.

FWIW, Dynafit/Salewa just sent me 2 new up-to-date Speed Radical heels and base mounts to replace my eary (1st?) edition heels.

I don't doubt the discrepancy you have observed--I think it is common and I find enough play in the heel (and toe) to be able to to seat the heel w/o slamming it down (that would make me nervous!).

I wonder if anyone has measured other mfr's variance in front pin-holes placement -> rear pin hole offset; I presume the rears are centered on the heel--altho it looks like one is offset.

Glad you brought this up, might make people aware of the need to check alignment before stomping.

Had similar issue (not as severe) with my recent binding mounting exercise. I discovered problem midway through second ski. That's when it hit me -- don't use the same boot to do both skis, i.e. dedicated mount for each boot. Seems obvious in retrospect. So I've got one A grade mount, one B grade. First-world problem...

I have not had a dedicated Right and Left ski for over ten years... is that still common?  Do shops mount skis (with dynafits) differently according to boot idiosyncracies so that there's a left and right ski?

Am I wrong to expect symmetrical boots that fit either of the two bindings equally?

I don't know what shops do, probably use a jig, probably with mixed results given the sensitivity of tech bindings to boot alignment. I do not think you are wrong to expect interchangeable boots. But remember the words of our late great leader, "Trust, but verify". In practical terms, once you have one mount completed, check the other boot for fit. Then proceed accordingly. I wish I'd thought of that before I drilled my new skis.

My experience with Dynafit TLT4, ZZero4, ONE, and several friends' TLT5s, as well as Megarides and Maestrales has been consistent at the ~mm level (I've never noticed an interchangeability problem with any of the above).  I'd be similarly grumpy to see such a manufacturing error.

A mount error would look the same for both boots on one ski. This looks like a boot error.  Does anything look funny up at the toe-end of the boot?

Mounting to accommodate a screwy boot seems sub-par; you'd never be able to use any other boots reliably, nor could a ski partner use the skis in a pinch/demo.

Mounting to accommodate a screwy boot seems sub-par; you'd never be able to use any other boots reliably, nor could a ski partner use the skis in a pinch/demo.

Exactly. Just the other day I was going to try out a friends ski (same boot sole length), but he wouldn't let me 'cause it was his first day on them. Maybe next time
Never gave a thought as to left and right; boots and bindings should align regardless. Isn't that part of why we pay a premium price for this equipment?

A mount error would look the same for both boots on one ski. This looks like a boot error. Does anything look funny up at the toe-end of the boot?

I imagine even a slight misplacement of the tech toe if set wrong during manufacturing would have a magnified effect on heel alignment (the longer the boot the more displacement). So I did take a look at the toe but there's nothing visible to the naked eye. I imagine it would take some precise caliper work to determine that...

And yes I am disgruntled. Not only because the boots do not line up equally, but also because of the complete denial and deceit while addressing the issue with the warranty folks at Salewa/Dynafit in Boulder.

Ive mounted many dynafit ,diamirs silverettas , etc. Use jig , glue and mount heel first. Mount toe second with screws not quite snug. Dedicate R. and L. ski. Put boot in toe , alaign heel , snug ft. screws , check alaignment . You may need to repeate this . Change screw tightening sequence if necessary . This is how you achive centering on Diamers also. Your boot is the chassis on Dynafits and the mateing of one dedicated boot per ski is imperative . Good luck. X

1. I really didn't post this to get mounting advice. Nowhere in my post do I ask for mounting advice. There's plenty of templates and great advice all over the internet from wildsnow.com to tetongravity, etc. so could we please lay that to rest?

2. As Charlie pointed out dedicating your binding mounts to the idiosyncrasies of your boots is a bad idea for many reasons. No ski shop today worth its salt would mount bindings as dedicated left and right ski. Imperative is that new boots are symmetrical and free of idiosyncrasies so that any given boot sole length can fit any likewise mounted ski interchangeably. That is the point of my post.

But thank you for the good luck wishes. We all need a little of that now and then.

any way you can get wildsnow to play this at all? frankly that's probably one of the best sites to make a loud noise and get proper customer support response. Major bummer

My mistake , sorry , I thought you were asking for professional help. Obviously my salt is saltpeter for you . X

My opinion, you'll get better results taking your issues to a Dynafit retailer and asking them to help you instead of trying to take them on yourself. Let them deal with Salewa USA. Pro Ski and Mountain Service in North Bend is a Dynafit specialist shop, has 20 years of experience dealing with their idiosyncrasies, and has likely dealt with this problem before.

good advice Chris--in fact it's an avenue I've gone down. Brandon (I think it was), a local Dynafit rep at Vertfest, told me that I should take them either to him (which meant driving up to the Pass again the next day which I wasn't planing on doing) or take them to Evo or Proski, official Dynafit dealer/shops. But when I took them to Evo and talked to GregL the first thing he asked me was "did you get them here?" I didn't (I did try though, I got the boots as a 'price match'; Evo wouldn't price match them, Backcountry would, so that's where I got them). So I respected that and didn't push it, Greg's a nice guy. We did do a half-assed trial on the wobbly display demo binding  (I had brought my boots in), but mostly just hobnobbed about skiing in general. No rigorous tests.

I really like the idea of having an official Dynafit shop representative in the NW--it makes a lot of sense. It seems like an efficient way of going about it since there is a big contingent of Dynafit users in these parts... and they wouldn't all have to go through Boulder CO. It would cut down on a lot of shipping and time spent, and streamline the whole communication equipment testing process. I did pass this idea along to Lydia at Salewa/Dynafit Boulder during my initial contact before dealing with Mike.

GregL at Evo told me that they pretty much follow the same process if I had got my boots there--they send them to Boulder. 
So that's what I ended up doing--with obviously mixed results... to put it nicely.  I still have no clue how Mike Eisenbrown came up with "there's nothing wrong with the boots/ they are within 1mm of each other" when they clearly are not.  I feel like I'm dealing with an insurance agent... which I guess I kind of am.

Along those lines, to borrow an analogy from SKIER-X, when an automobile's chassis is no longer square, the car is considered totaled.  My Dynafit TLT6 boots are definitely not square. (but they weren't in a crash, just out of the box)

any way you can get wildsnow to play this at all? frankly that's probably one of the best sites to make a loud noise and get proper customer support response. Major bummer

would be nice but Lou runs that site and picks his topics... I imagine Louie, who is local, checks TAY regularly (unless of course he's in a tent in Alsaka somewhere..). I've skied with him, he's great, but that's a choice they would have to make.

Not to beat this into the ground but to complete the bigger picture the Dynafit Speed Turn binding that I used for the above mount also came somewhat defective. One of the leash loops pulled right out... completely unattached.  It's minor so I never brought it up with Dynafit warranty (not worth the hassle), but just looped some cord in myself.





yeah it was just a leash loop but it makes you wonder about Dynafit quality control... a brand I used to have a good amount of trust level for
.

postscript -

After sending one more email summarizing my experience thus far and the fact that I still had a pair of defective boots (to as many dynafit warranty related addresses as I could dredge up and linking to the documentation here), I got a fairly prompt response from Mike saying that they would send me a new pair of shells.

Finally got them today... immediately tested them; both left and right boot line up square as they should, hallelujah! I think I may be picking up some new boot shopping habits... and the next time I mount a pair of bindings, it'll be a whole lot less frustrating.

Sometime due process requires a little ruckus and persistence--not that it should.

"Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Don Quixote

Hopefully there's some benefit to all this beyond what's here.

nice send after a difficult bushwhack, Stefan. true to style.

appreciate the last two lines of your last post--rich.

Rad; far better late than never. Thanks Dynafit.

yeah it was just a leash loop but it makes you wonder about Dynafit quality control... a brand I used to have a good amount of trust level for

Hi cumulus, I'm not sure exactly how to pull it off, but I know the toe levers are serviceable (replaceable), and I think you might be able to get the loop back on by removing the lever.

ha! funny Eric, bushwhack for sure
with some dense underbrush to negotiate

and thanks for the good 'ol NW politesse Charlie
hard to muster for me with the hours wasted...

and Kam--I took a closer look at the crossbar/fulcrum that holds the spring and around which toe lock mechanism swivels (and around which the loop should loop), and as far as I can see that crossbar is riveted. Always open to having my eyes opened wider tho...

It doesn't sound like it was the case here, but I've seen several boots loose their alignment after punches were done on the shell.

It doesn't sound like it was the case here, but I've seen several boots loose their alignment after punches were done on the shell.

yes, not the case with mine--

Boots are straight out of the box, no mods.

but definitely something to watch out for and keep in mind. Given the event of a modification gone awry I imagine a good shop would warranty the boots (given that it wasn't a DIY-mod).