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Author Topic: source lake uphill dog park trail  (Read 72152 times)
flowing alpy
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source lake uphill dog park trail
« on: 01/09/16, 04:31 PM »

plenty of parking in lot4
groomed trail just 4 fido
bring your fanciest PDS ski, rockerrocker
use Radical Speed tiny clamps
800$ footwear should help but
the floaterAvy pack complete's ya.

now about that cattle/ladradoodle/pug whatever you want to have chase around in nature, sure is cute, huh? playing in the snow, huh you big tour studs.
way to get after it in one of the most over populated areas in the Cascade Mountains, bet you'd break trail picking up the shit your dogs left behind.
No leash
No problem
the ski and board community that respect this place will pick up the slack, hope an edge never catches fido as fido chases uphill into downhill rider traffic.
nobody like's seeing the mess it leaves behind.

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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #1 on: 01/09/16, 07:56 PM »

Wow sounds like a real serious issue. What do you propose we do as a country to come together to solve this very pressing serious problem?
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sconey
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #2 on: 01/10/16, 05:53 AM »

We are going to build a wall, and the dogs are going to pay for it!
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #3 on: 01/10/16, 08:23 AM »

Definitely a few nice dogs on tour  up thattaway yesterday. Lots more dogs with booters down around the water tower and a ways above. Good luck getting the PSA to them (and the snowshoe dog buddies)...
« Last Edit: 01/10/16, 08:29 AM by Jim Oker » Logged
flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/16, 05:03 PM »

Wow sounds like a real serious issue. What do you propose we do as a country to come together to solve this very pressing serious problem?
i'd have all the corporate and club groups that use the area for clients, teach their clients the proper areas to let their dog run off leash, how to bag and properly dispose of their animals feces and look up when they are using a downhill trail for their uphill travel. there are no lift served ski hills on Mt. Snoqualmie, that would be a good place to start.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #5 on: 01/10/16, 07:24 PM »

I saw folks sledding on the side of I-90 today, between the WB onramp at Denny Creek and the highway. At least those folks don't have enough brain cells to make it up the pass and get in bobby's way. Today a group of snowshoers headed back to the parking lot asked me which side of the trail I preferred them to be on. I thanked them for their thoughfulness and responded, "either, as long as you stay on it".

The folks with only boots on their feet are the ones I'm most concerned about. Can we start a punchcard system for the dogshit? Every 10 piles you run over you get a free wax and tune?
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Moral of story is don't ski when you can snowboard
Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #6 on: 01/10/16, 08:48 PM »

The folks with only boots on their feet are the ones I'm most concerned about. Can we start a punchcard system for the dogshit? Every 10 piles you run over you get a free wax and tune?

That is a free wax job. The special xtra stinky brown wax
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #7 on: 01/13/16, 05:11 PM »

lot4 is groomed and ready for the saturday mass snoshoo trudge to source lake.
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Chuck C
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #8 on: 01/13/16, 07:53 PM »

lot4 is groomed and ready for the saturday mass snoshoo trudge to source lake.

Yays.

I'm wondering how mobbed it'll be Friday night.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #9 on: 01/15/16, 07:53 PM »

the uphill migration on webbed plastic devices has begun, the dogs were less abundant but saw a big ole black spotted Great Dane going up the Snoqualmie side with his owner. Awesome looking animal!
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glenn_b
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #10 on: 01/15/16, 09:04 PM »

Got totally pissed off by two dog owners today while teaching 5&6 yo kids at the  Summit Nordic center at Hyak. One let their dog, some kind of Labradoodle mutt, get away onto the lower teaching area from the adjacent Rampart Drive, barking and running at skiers. Later, snowshoers sorting out their kit at the lodge allowed their burly Lab mix to freely run around barking at people before finally leashing it.
« Last Edit: 01/15/16, 09:11 PM by glenn_b » Logged
Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #11 on: 01/16/16, 09:55 AM »

Oh the horror.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #12 on: 01/16/16, 02:02 PM »

hey pete, some of us dog owners control our animals in places that are NOT classified as OFF-LEASH. Know what sucks, teaching a small human being to ski at a ski area and having some schmucks precious lil snowflake labrabull charge towards and around them on the cat-track.
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glenn_b
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #13 on: 01/16/16, 06:44 PM »

Pete,
Didn't your dog(Rainy?) disappear chasing deer or something up at Blewett a while back?  Care to tell us how that worked out?
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #14 on: 01/17/16, 09:50 PM »

Geez Glenn I'm sorry you were acosted by a marauding labradoodle. It really sounds like a horrible situation that warrants a good old internet rant. What that has to do with losing Rainy (nice job remembering her name!) I'm not really sure. Perhaps you can tell me!
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #15 on: 01/17/16, 10:16 PM »

hey pete, some of us dog owners control our animals in places that are NOT classified as OFF-LEASH. Know what sucks, teaching a small human being to ski at a ski area and having some schmucks precious lil snowflake labrabull charge towards and around them on the cat-track.

Hey friend, I'm not trying to defend any heinous off-leash perpetrators, brown wax non picker-uppers, or Great Danes in the mountains or anything, I'm just saying there's a lot worse things to get worked up about. Like snowshoeing the skin track. Now that shiz is just not right!
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aaron_wright
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #16 on: 01/18/16, 10:56 AM »

Hey friend, I'm not trying to defend any heinous off-leash perpetrators, brown wax non picker-uppers, or Great Danes in the mountains or anything, I'm just saying there's a lot worse things to get worked up about. Like snowshoeing the skin track. Now that shiz is just not right!
What these guys are ranting about are real safety hazards. Someone could get hurt or hurt a dog running loose in crowded areas with skiers.

Maybe Glenn was implying that you don't really understand responsible dog ownership?

Snowshoeing in the skin track is just annoying.
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #17 on: 01/18/16, 11:32 AM »

At times I'm able to view the dog issues with a sense of humor and my day goes on just fine.  However, safety issues do arise along with the disgustingness of dog crap everywhere.  Too bad it's not worth money because there's a treasure of frozen dog chodes in the lot 4 snow banks.

About 10 years ago I was tucking to keep my speed up and a big yellow lab jumped in front of me near the water tower.  I nailed him going 40 or more, lost my ski and crashed.  I gave an earful to the owner about not using a leash and everything else he and his wife were doing wrong.  I think I broke the dog's leg as it wouldn't put any weight on it and it looked jacked-up.

If people must hike with dogs summer or winter put them on a leash.  Maybe you love your dog, I sure as hell don't.
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andyski
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #18 on: 01/18/16, 01:39 PM »

Hey friend, I'm not trying to defend any heinous off-leash perpetrators, brown wax non picker-uppers, or Great Danes in the mountains or anything, I'm just saying there's a lot worse things to get worked up about. Like snowshoeing the skin track. Now that shiz is just not right!

I and the OP have seen unleashed dogs get seriously wounded in this area as a result of getting hit by passing skiers. Maybe that's cool with you.

Feel free to focus on super important issues like reliable mid-week opening times for the road to Paradise.
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BrianT
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #19 on: 01/18/16, 02:27 PM »

As a dog owner (who let's his dog go play unleashed in 'leashed' area's and as a skier) I see both sides of this with valid points.

My take on this is the following:

As a dog owner. If you're dog is always in the way (like mine) leash it or don't take it to a popular area. Clean up after it and make sure you do the right thing.

As a skier. If you're so out of control that you hit a dog on a small trail, I kinda feel like you're in the wrong here. Yes, maybe the dog was unleashed, but had that dog been a person, you would have hit them as well.  Had the dog been eratic (see first response) then the dog owner is at fault.

The short answer to this just like the don't hike in the skin track/etc.. is, it's going to happen, and you should just learn to either report the issues to the authorities, or deal with it in a polite manner.  Bitching about something on a forum isn't really going to fix anything, unless you're addressing a specific person/group that troll this forum, which I'm fairly certain you are not.
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aaron_wright
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #20 on: 01/18/16, 03:00 PM »


 
As a skier. If you're so out of control that you hit a dog on a small trail, I kinda feel like you're in the wrong here. Yes, maybe the dog was unleashed, but had that dog been a person, you would have hit them as well.  Had the dog been eratic (see first response) then the dog owner is at fault.
 
If you let your dog run out of control on an established downhill return to the ski base area you're inconsiderate and stupid. If a person is on that trail they're inconsiderate and stupid too.

It's just like stopping in a blind spot on the piste.
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #21 on: 01/18/16, 03:01 PM »

If you're referring to my collision you absolutely false.  I was 100% in control and the dog jumped in my path leaving zero time to do anything but ram it.  It would be like jumping off a freeway overpass and blaming a driver for hitting you.

If you're so out of control as a dog owner your dog likely will get hit by skiers, cars, bikers etc.  It's your responsibility to keep your dog out of the way of fast moving traffic.


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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #22 on: 01/18/16, 04:25 PM »

As a skier. If you're so out of control that you hit a dog on a small trail, I kinda feel like you're in the wrong here. Yes, maybe the dog was unleashed, but had that dog been a person, you would have hit them as well.

Yeah, no...
People will look up and react accordingly when incoming skiers yell a warning, like "skier on track"...
People move over - dogs not so much.

Had the dog been eratic (see first response) then the dog owner is at fault.

There you have it...

If you let your dog run out of control on an established downhill return to the ski base area you're inconsiderate and stupid. If a person is on that trail they're inconsiderate and stupid too.

It's just like stopping in a blind spot on the piste.

^^^
This

That trail is a ski area exit, down hill traffic.
People heading up that trail need to exercise awareness to their surroundings and immediate dangers (such as incoming traffic).

And, for all the p00baggers, please carry that crap out with you...
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glenn_b
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #23 on: 01/18/16, 04:48 PM »

Maybe Glenn was implying that you don't really understand responsible dog ownership?
Bingo!
« Last Edit: 01/18/16, 04:56 PM by glenn_b » Logged
flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #24 on: 01/18/16, 06:52 PM »

thing is, i never see dogs running around the golf course. I don't think a ski area should be any different, with respect to the guest experience, as far as dog/human interactions are concerned. Andy brings up a good example that I wasn't even going to mention, the safety for the dog issue is real.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #25 on: 01/18/16, 06:58 PM »

Hey friend, I'm not trying to defend any heinous off-leash perpetrators, brown wax non picker-uppers, or Great Danes in the mountains or anything, I'm just saying there's a lot worse things to get worked up about. Like snowshoeing the skin track. Now that shiz is just not right!
...or snowshoeing up the downhill ski track out of source lake with unleashed dogs.
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #26 on: 01/18/16, 10:20 PM »

Bingo!

Nice job fellas on the brilliant insight. Unfortunately, I wasn't the one with my dog on the day she was lost. There also wasn't any irresponsible activity on anyone's part that day anyway. But thanks for bringing up the happy memories! 

At any rate, no one is arguing that frantic hordes of dogs should be loosed onto the piste to trample innocent ski school children practicing their pizza and french fries. However, I have a hard time getting too worked up because one dog ran around on the groomed run a bit. Inappropriate, yes. The end of the world, no.

As for the OP and his complaint of running into dogs on the out track: I know its fun to go fast there and everything but it is also a popular trail open to uphill traffic and a trail where its completely legal to have off-leash dogs. So please just exercise some patience and realize that even though you are a super rad big line shredder it is is foreseeable that you may encounter uphill traffic and dogs and ski appropriately.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #27 on: 01/18/16, 11:25 PM »

Yeah whenever I ski out that way I just expect it to be a bowling alley. Expecting any less is like expecting folks not to illegally camp in the left lane on the way home. Fine to ask, but good luck with that...
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #28 on: 01/19/16, 06:16 AM »

Nice job fellas on the brilliant insight. Unfortunately, I wasn't the one with my dog on the day she was lost. There also wasn't any irresponsible activity on anyone's part that day anyway. But thanks for bringing up the happy memories! 

At any rate, no one is arguing that frantic hordes of dogs should be loosed onto the piste to trample innocent ski school children practicing their pizza and french fries. However, I have a hard time getting too worked up because one dog ran around on the groomed run a bit. Inappropriate, yes. The end of the world, no.

As for the OP and his complaint of running into dogs on the out track: I know its fun to go fast there and everything but it is also a popular trail open to uphill traffic and a trail where its completely legal to have off-leash dogs. So please just exercise some patience and realize that even though you are a super rad big line shredder it is is foreseeable that you may encounter uphill traffic and dogs and ski appropriately.
completely legal to have a dog run off-leash during ski area operation is something i'd like to see in print by the USFS.
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #29 on: 01/19/16, 07:45 AM »

Dude i agree with you its probably a good idea to leash your dog on a trail that empties out runs from a ski area, at least till you get above the congested section down low. But Jim Oker pretty much sums it up in his previous post. If I remember correctly there are also signs warning skiers to watch for uphill traffic.

I could be wrong but I don't think that trail is technically part of the ski area, so therefore it's just like any other piece of FS land, where there are no dog leash laws.
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snoqpass
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #30 on: 01/19/16, 07:52 AM »

Dude i agree with you its probably a good idea to leash your dog on a trail that empties out runs from a ski area, at least till you get above the congested section down low. But Jim Oker pretty much sums it up in his previous post. If I remember correctly there are also signs warning skiers to watch for uphill traffic.

I could be wrong but I don't think that trail is technically part of the ski area, so therefore it's just like any other piece of FS land, where there are no dog leash laws.
It's in the permitted area and there is FS land that requires you to leash your dog
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #31 on: 01/19/16, 07:57 AM »

Obviously. Like a ski area, for example. Maybe the out run is in the permitted area but a quick glance at the trail map shows it as outside the ski area boundary, so go figure.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #32 on: 01/19/16, 08:54 AM »

It's in the permitted area and there is FS land that requires you to leash your dog

This...
And he is in a position to know.

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snoqpass
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #33 on: 01/19/16, 09:14 AM »

Obviously. Like a ski area, for example. Maybe the out run is in the permitted area but a quick glance at the trail map shows it as outside the ski area boundary, so go figure.
A quick glance at the map shows it as the "Back Bowls Boundary" which are within the ski area boundary. Most all FS trails on the I90 corridor require dogs to be leashed
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Jsper
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #34 on: 01/19/16, 09:46 AM »

Hi Pete! Much love to you and Rainy wherever she may be!
     Super tacky of someone to bring that up. I would advise
you stop the conversing with these dorks man. When u bicker with
idiots eventually they'll wear  you down and bring you down to there
rule abiding, sheep following thoughtless, mindless ways brother.
We live east of the crest, in the mts. , with tons of space to roam
for a reason homey. When I see poop, I Ollie that shit.
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JPH
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #35 on: 01/19/16, 09:53 AM »

Most all FS trails on the I90 corridor require dogs to be leashed

Most trails on the north side of I-90 (not so much on the south side), but I doubt the FS considers this a trail. The Snow Lake trail would certainly require a leash.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #36 on: 01/19/16, 09:55 AM »

When I see poop, I Ollie that shit.
Which reminds me - folks should be careful about what they ask for. I often see folks asking that dog owners carry the poop out. Which I am guessing is a higher standard than most apply to their own craps when they gotta go while out on tour. But I also bet most folks don't just drop their own poo in the track or nearby and leave it there for all to see and possibly ski on or fall into.

The "carry it out, please" has sort of worked for lots of busy I-90 hiking trails. Sort of. Like halfway. The bad half. Many of these trails are now littered with dog poop in bags - people bag it but don't want to carry it up with them. And surprise surprise, some percent of those folks forget and the bags hang around forever compared to an ollied poop.

But damn, the meltout of both the part of that trail near the upper lot as well as the bottom of the gold creek XC/snowshoe/circus trail is not pretty!
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aaron_wright
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #37 on: 01/19/16, 10:31 AM »

Nice job fellas on the brilliant insight. Unfortunately, I wasn't the one with my dog on the day she was lost. There also wasn't any irresponsible activity on anyone's part that day anyway. But thanks for bringing up the happy memories!

Letting your off leash dog chase deer is not only irresponsible but illegal. I'm sorry you, your wife actually, lost your dog but that doesn't excuse the fact that you or your wife didn't have your dog under strict verbal control as required by law in both Chelan and Kittitas counties and on all FS lands. I've been there, it sucks but it's my fault if my dog chases wildlife.

Below, Jsper says it's all okay because we live east of the crest. I live east of the crest. Most everyone I know over here is very intolerant of uncontrolled, off leash dogs.
 
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Jsper
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #38 on: 01/19/16, 10:40 AM »

Aaron you're the master of putting words in people's mouth bud.
I've seen your snide comments before on a variety of forums. Never
said it's ok but what is real is that, now listen close Aaron , is we accept
responsibility for our actions . Don't care what county policies are. I'm sure
Rainy was yelled at but she didn't listen. So the consequences are they go
home with no dog and are sad. They live with that.
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aaron_wright
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #39 on: 01/19/16, 10:48 AM »

Aaron you're the master of putting words in people's mouth bud.
 I've seen your snide comments before on a variety of forums. Never
said it's ok but what is real is that, now listen close Aaron , is we accept
responsibility for our actions . Don't care what county policies are. I'm sure
Rainy was yelled at but she didn't listen. So the consequences are they go
home with no dog and are sad. They live with that.
So, Pete said no one was irresponsible but it's illegal for someone to let their dog chase wildlife, how is that not irresponsible? He said that, I didn't. How is that putting words in his mouth?

I take personal responsibility for everything I do and if my dog were lost or shot by a game warden for chasing deer that would be my fault and I would accept any legal consequences that I faced. I wouldn't claim I wasn't being irresponsible. Do you know why it's illegal to let your dog chase deer?

Are you above the law? That seems to be what you are saying for yourself and also for Pete.

The only people that have been truly snide in this thread are you and Pete.
« Last Edit: 01/19/16, 10:52 AM by aaron_wright » Logged
Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #40 on: 01/19/16, 12:57 PM »

Hey I'll be the first to admit I've made sarcastic comments on this thread. But if you don't think that was warranted please go back and reread the original post, which was caustic and patronizing to all those who earn their turns, regardless of the dog issue. I have thick skin and I can handle someone being rude on the Internet but don't whine when it comes back around.

At any rate, i hope dog owners be responsible and leash their dogs when appropriate and others can relax a bit and forgive an indiscression or two unless there is a genuine safety issue, like the gentleman who posted about running into the golden retriever.
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #41 on: 01/19/16, 02:48 PM »

To clarify someone's guess on signage, they've never had a sign telling skiers to watch out for uphill traffic.  They did however used to have a sign near the lot saying no uphill traffic and to watch for high speed on-coming traffic.

Near the lot is the critical area for leashes.  Once you're a 1/4 mile up the trail it's much less of an issue and collision risk.

Very true that poop left sitting for eternity in a plastic bag is ironic and depressing.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #42 on: 01/19/16, 03:10 PM »

BTW, I get that the posters who called out Pete for his lost dog likely think this was totally relevant to the thread, but FWIW, in the context and given the wording, the first reference to this loss on page 1 came off as a very personal sort of "insert knife and twist" sort of personal dig versus a really clear argument for proper handling of dogs. It's hard to read this as not being meant as being a personal dig as anything else. Yes, good voice control is important as Aaron points out, but IMO it's not sufficient and thus not super on-point with respect to the blind-curves-bowling-alley of this stretch of the Alpental border - the interactions just happen so fast along there that voice control won't be quick enough in many cases.

As for snideness, some might read the OP's reference to "you big tour studs" outfitted with full regalia as possibly just a teensy bit snide too - I know I did when I first saw that post. Perhaps understandable given the "righteous rant" nature of this anti-poo thread, but snide is snide. Not a good excuse to respond in-kind if you don't like snideness of course.

FWIW, I would never tuck above and past the water tower to make it across the flat above the upper parking lot (especially getting to upwards of 40 MPH in that circus zone =8-O ). Regardless of what the circus crew should be doing there, I know what they actually tend to be doing, and I would rather skate a little alongside the parking lot than take what I see as a significant risk of collision - same deal further up the hill closer to Source Lake where it's a bit roller-coaster-y - I accept a little skating, sidestepping, or herringboning as a cost of avoiding hitting a goomba or their dog. Regardless of who I could say would be technically "at fault" in case of a collision there, I'd still prefer to avoid the risk. YMMV
« Last Edit: 01/19/16, 03:40 PM by Jim Oker » Logged
Mofro
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #43 on: 01/19/16, 04:12 PM »

In all my years of slack country skiing Alpental I have never hit anyone unintentionally Wink. Small children may dart from time to time but generally don't try to run toward you and nip like some off leash dogs will.  I was there when one of our group (3rd to go past) couldn't avoid one of the 2 dogs charging at us on the upper ski trail out above the water tower run out to lot 4, resulting in a lot of blood and doggie carnage. Nothing reckless or careless by the skier, all on the off leash dogs.  And I remember that another dog lover in our group took it upon himself to use his shirt to stop the bleeding, and then spent the rest of his afternoon driving the dog and the owner to the animal clinic in north bend to get mended.


As for dogs on the ski hill, in the nineties before chair 1 was replaced with the lovely high speed quad, my dog at the time would occasionally wander up from the loop road to look for hand outs from the female (that dog had a thing for the ladies) parking lot ski school crowd. On more than one occasion he spotted me while I was loading the chair and would run up the entire length of the chair, beating it to the top and meeting me at the off ramp. One spring day he met his match as we continued up to 2 and that darn dog tried to run up the Fan through the slush, no way could he keep up with the chair on that rise. I thought he was going to implode his little doggie heart and found him exhausted in the flats of tower nine. We skied back down the Fan and he got a free ride up the lift for a run down Nash.   
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #44 on: 01/19/16, 05:30 PM »

Ha. Funny story Mofro (the second one).

Glenn, by the way, you didn't deserve my snide comment to your first post. I could have made my point in a lot less of an assnholish manner. Sorry for that.
« Last Edit: 01/19/16, 05:53 PM by Pete_H » Logged
glenn_b
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #45 on: 01/19/16, 07:19 PM »

Pete,
I'm sorry, too, and my condolences to all re Rainy, a dog I went looking for a couple of times after you'd reported her missing. I'm sad you didn't have a better outcome.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #46 on: 01/19/16, 07:34 PM »

I would advise
you stop the conversing with these dorks man. When u bicker with
idiots eventually they'll wear  you down and bring you down to there
rule abiding, sheep following thoughtless, mindless ways brother.
We live east of the crest, in the mts.
good way to have a conversation, huh?
Pete, the source lake trail policy reads as such;
The trail is located within the Alpental Ski Area Special Use Permit Boundries and is designated for Downhill Ski Traffic Only.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #47 on: 01/19/16, 09:04 PM »

Discussion of boundaries and policies aside, I saw a fella charge up the groomed trail from the lot in his truck the other night. Imagine facing that as a downhill skier in the dark. I didn't wait around long enough to see if he returned.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #48 on: 01/20/16, 11:57 AM »

Pete, the source lake trail policy reads as such;
The trail is located within the Alpental Ski Area Special Use Permit Boundries and is designated for Downhill Ski Traffic Only.
Not to beat the dead horse, but it's worth sharing what Gib had to say on the Summit uphill travel policy sticky thread:
Quote
For getting further afield - even though "technically" you might be skirting along and somewhat through our permit area, we do not preclude you from heading up the South Fork valley towards Source Lake in order to access points beyond our operating area.  ie   Great Scott, The Tooth, Chair Peak, Kaleetan, etc.  But the savvy traveller must be aware that all of the left hand slopes are avalanche prone terrain and may in fact have very happy little triggers riding every feature.  Natural and human triggered slides have often endangered and trashed those commonly used up-valley skin and snowshoe routes.  We ask that you stay trail right when on the groomed return trails and once those peter out you should make your own way rather than following the downhill ski area return tracks.  VERY hazardous high speed (sometimes less-skilled) oncoming traffic will be on those tracks.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #49 on: 01/20/16, 03:32 PM »

I like that gib calls us happy little triggers:-)


My original point, was triggered over the weeks from witnessing groups of equipment rich young people, that were using lot4 as their base to explore the backcountry. Many,  appeared very avalanche and weather savvy, by the looks of their gear and had very expensive snow travel tools.
The interesting part was seeing the different way those that brought their dogs behaved. Some owners were very courteous, kept their animal close and usually had or was using a leash. Some owners knew their animals habits and attempted to not have their animal be a nuisance, 50/50 successful.
The owners of most concern were those that felt as if the trail is an off-leash dog area and showed NO concern for the people their animal comes in contact with.
these are my observations and are in no way scientific or fact, this I know.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #50 on: 01/20/16, 07:17 PM »

Who cares about the cost of their tools, but yeah that sounds like a typical spread of human behavior. Years ago I took my dogs up that way and kept them on leash and to my right on the edge of the trail while climbing, as much for their own protection as for the sake of courtesy. Those clueless owners aren't taking good care of their loyal companions, which is the truly big bummer to me, though I also understand why out is annoying to you, and even dangerous to those who tuck and go 40 along there. Last time I skied out that route, a few weekends ago, the snowshoers and booters were the real obstacles to avoid.
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alecapone
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #51 on: 01/21/16, 05:01 AM »

I'm sorry to hear you never found rainy pete. I still remember her handing Kololo her first butt whoopin on the summit of rock mountain. Don't mess with another dogs smoked salmon!

I like touring with my dog, but go through great lengths to make sure she is not a problem. Never has been, and she rarely gets leashed. I've gotten nothing more then hellos from Stevens pass patrol by choosing the appropriate days, time, and routes. (Is, early/ late season, partial openings, etc.). I don't think I would consider taking an unleashed dog head on vrs unknown ski traffic, like in the source lake trail. For the safety of all.

Similar might be Heather ridge, as far as the scene goes... Minus the resort traffic. I guess it's how you view it all. I see happy people doing their things in snow, having fun.  I smile, wave, say hello, to pretty everyone, snow shoes, machines, k9', regardless. I don't want to judge, and harsh someone elses good time. Even though I may quietly complain of a ruined skintrack.








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scott
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #52 on: 01/21/16, 05:14 AM »

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=28866.0

I could have posted a rant about how this aggressive brown dog came charging out of the woods, barking at me. I was solo, and my first primal response was "bear!"...  But no, I I took knee, produced some treats. Had nothing but smiles and hellos , and highfives for the k9's companions. Thanked the youngest of the group for the boot pack..

See above post, couple pics down. Most handsome fellow in photo was on top, drinking whiskey with me. Wink
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scott
flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #53 on: 01/21/16, 06:50 AM »

She does look like a lil teddy:-)
Thanks for not taking her out on the narrow trail back to windy pass.
That was a great spring for skiing!
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #54 on: 01/21/16, 08:10 AM »

Thanks Scott! Yeah that cat track up Heatherr Ridge / Skyline is a good comparison. Never know what you're going to run into on the way down: dogs, snowshoers, boy scout troops, ten piece marching band, ...
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Griff
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #55 on: 01/22/16, 11:00 AM »

The General Public does not read posts on this site. So I think everyone can expect that 80% of the actions noted above will continue.

If I travel up the Source lake trail with my dog, I only will leave by 8 Am to assure that I will be  avoiding downhill traffic and take lower skin tracks. Of course, poop is done and bagged within 5 minutes of us arriving. I know my dog.

All good dog owners know their dogs. She will only follow me in the skin track. She does not approach other people or other dogs for that matter. She is trained that way. She is 100% voice control to sit, stop and has never once acted aggressively to any person or animal (living with 3 cats helps).

I have been blessed with 2 dogs like this in my life.
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Robie
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #56 on: 01/25/16, 07:29 PM »

 Hmmm whats this? Edit to say I'm a dog lover till they chase me.


* dog_shit.JPG (129.31 KB, 600x800 - viewed 2290 times.)
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #57 on: 01/26/16, 07:33 AM »

Hmmm whats this? Edit to say I'm a dog lover till they chase me.

^^^
Hahaha - Awesome post!
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #58 on: 04/26/16, 10:29 AM »

Oh the horror.
the shit coming to the surface during the thaw sure is.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #59 on: 04/27/16, 08:54 AM »

For perspective on horror, go check out the meltout on the road in  from the sno-park at Gold Creek sometime =8-O

And very few of those folks have $800 footwear. Go figure...

Same as it ever was - somehow it's just too  much trouble for some to do  the  poop-put when fido does his business right after getting out of the  car.
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #60 on: 04/27/16, 04:01 PM »

Well known in culinary circles is that properly aged dog poop is a pleasing substitute spread for Vegemite.  I hope to see all the proud owners of free-pooping dogs in the snow bank this weekend with butter knives and fancy crackers.  It pairs charmingly with a good cabernet.


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skykilo
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #61 on: 04/27/16, 04:10 PM »

I get sick of seeing dog poop on trails where I skin regularly in the winter.  Sometimes there's so much that it's hard to avoid at certain points on a trail, near the trailhead.
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haggis
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #62 on: 04/28/16, 08:50 AM »

Gold Creek is brutal, having never been up that way in winter and during our trip up Alaska a few weekends ago I couldn't believe the minefield over the 1st 1/2 mile - brutal and disgusting.  Sun cup dog poop, not really awesome at all.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #63 on: 05/23/16, 07:23 PM »

Damn, almost 17,000 fools have viewed this thread!!!!
I think I got the message out, maybe next year less shit.
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T. Eastman
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #64 on: 05/23/16, 10:18 PM »

Could be worse...

... camp at the base of Alpamayo in Peru...

... turd city and snow-for-drinking water-zone...

... at least the dogs would eat the human exhaust!
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #65 on: 12/01/16, 06:18 PM »

Since we're talking about it, let's revisit this shit.
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Eric Lindahl
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #66 on: 12/03/16, 09:55 AM »

I rarely go to alp any more so not an issue for me but I happened upon this thread and cracked up at Sconey's post #2 last January.  Worth repeating for the laugh:  "We are going to build a wall, and the dogs are going to pay for it!"  Maybe it'll happen now.
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T. Eastman
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #67 on: 12/03/16, 06:35 PM »

Sky, it's not called a "trail-head" for nothing...
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khyak
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #68 on: 12/04/16, 08:27 AM »

I think the poop and pee is gross.  Not to mention the little kids that are trying to play in the snow.   The ski patrol use to put up signage warning hikers and various idjits that they were going against the flow and to watch out for downhill traffic.  I really think they need to do that again.   I use to hear  talk of the forest service marking a different snowshoer route up valley.   Wish that would happen, at least for the first section.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #69 on: 12/10/16, 05:12 AM »

time to get the pooper throwing motion greased for a new season.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #70 on: 12/17/16, 06:46 PM »

Busy busy busy day at LoT4 dog park, the shit was intense.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #71 on: 12/26/16, 08:05 PM »

So far this holiday season I've had more close calls with kids than their four-legged companions. I even watched a lady scoop her pupper's poop off the groomed cattrack on Christmas Day. Also it's been so dang cold Lot 4 is packed ice/snow, affording the ability to ski/ride back to one's vehicle from the far corner.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #72 on: 12/31/16, 07:09 PM »

Sledding Droning Sloshoeing Dogging SkiMoBro Ding Dongs going to source via the skied down trail past the icefall has been rather interesting this holiday season.
the poop is buried under a cold blanket of snow, waiting to greet us again in the spring!
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #73 on: 01/01/17, 03:24 PM »

The new upper tier groomed trail
above the lower water tower trail
is a great relief to exiting ski traffic.
It's nice to be able and avoid the sledders, feral dogs, sloshoers, unleashed kids, first date romantics, new gear testers,
lost Franklin Falls seeking urbanites, drone flying folks
trying to negotiate their way upstream.
Thank You Summit Safety Managers!
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AlpineRose
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #74 on: 01/01/17, 05:46 PM »

Sounds like a sensible solution
To combat the people pollution...
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #75 on: 01/02/17, 02:54 PM »

This solution has given us hope.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #76 on: 01/04/17, 06:39 AM »

after a week of change I hope this remains
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #77 on: 01/08/17, 01:14 PM »

Lots of folks using the source lake dog park trail this weekend
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Chuck C
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #78 on: 01/08/17, 03:16 PM »

I've decided to abandon climbing up that trail anymore.  Too much traffic and I can reach enough terrain from Chair 2 and the upper gate.  Too many people, too many dogs, too close to town.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #79 on: 01/09/17, 10:02 AM »

Good Call
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #80 on: 01/17/17, 05:47 AM »

Off-Leash dog trail was fairly busy this weekend.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #81 on: 01/24/17, 06:18 PM »

The blue ice has kept SLDP quiet.
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Norseman
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #82 on: 01/24/17, 09:32 PM »

You need a big gold badge with "SLDP Citizen Patrol" or something like that... with a Ranger hat. Or maybe sombrero.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #83 on: 01/25/17, 06:05 AM »

Source Lake Dog Park may need a wall on the upslope side
to protect legal downhill movement from the uphill migration.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #84 on: 01/25/17, 11:19 AM »

Last time I went up thattaway and over to the Snow Lake side, I was stunned/impressed to see how much it looked like we were still w/in lift-served terrain from how tracked out almost everything decent was. We scored some nice turns over on Roosevelt as the hordes we'd narrowly beaten  out there were working their way up  for the  sloppy seconds. On the  luge run out from  Source  Lake, I  wondered how often there  are head-on collisions on that stretch (even up above  the  exit from  lift-served "backcountry" terrain). It was like playing a video  game. Not my cup of white tea.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #85 on: 01/27/17, 05:00 PM »

Day like today was my cup o tea. Nobody going up the down!
plenty of elbow room on the luge track outta the bc
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #86 on: 01/29/17, 04:11 AM »

Uphill traffic was out of control yesterday. Seems the Summit is losing control of part of their downhill controlled area to non revenue occupants. Yesterday there was uphill traffic on the actual groomed ski runs where children's lessons were being held. I sure hope an unleashed dog running uphill on the down luge doesn't get severely injured from an accident involving a backcountry card carrying skier or border.
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rlsg
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #87 on: 01/29/17, 06:33 AM »

What these guys are ranting about are real safety hazards. Someone could get hurt or hurt a dog running loose in crowded areas with skiers.

Maybe Glenn was implying that you don't really understand responsible pdog ownership?

Snowshoeing in the skin track is just annoying.

i encourage booters..dogs..snow shoers to use my skin track..other skinners too

don't need any more precious pow destroyed than nesseccary..
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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #88 on: 01/29/17, 09:44 AM »

Uphill traffic was out of control yesterday. Seems the Summit is losing control of part of their downhill controlled area to non revenue occupants.

They are revenue occupants in the sense that they are members of the public and presumably pay federal taxes. The land Alpental operates on is, after all, owned publicly.

I feel ya though. Weekend crowds at ski area = suck. But that's not exactly unforeseeable or surprising.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #89 on: 01/30/17, 01:33 PM »

They are revenue occupants in the sense that they are members of the public and presumably pay federal taxes. The land Alpental operates on is, after all, owned publicly.

Naive statement
The land Alpental operates on is covered by a SUP, which Ski Lifts Inc. pays the Fed for.
As such, they are responsible for all activity on said property within said permit area.
That means that they can close access at any time the like in the course of operating that business.


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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #90 on: 01/30/17, 04:53 PM »

I understand the arrangement between Alpental and the usfs. Of course the ski area has and should have control over all operations including closing and controlling ski runs when necessary.

But I don't think it's naive to feel that it would be unfair to ban uphill travel, if it's conducted in a safe and reasonable manner (which may not have been the case in the matter at hand), because uphill skiers are not revenue customers. It is, after all, still public land.

That said, I personally dont see what the interest is in skinning up a ski resort unless it's before or after the resort is open for the season.
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #91 on: 01/30/17, 07:26 PM »

I don't get the level of teeth gnashing on this subject. 

A good percentage of the angst seems to be about the inconvenience of downward bound skiers having to limit speed in order to be in sufficient control to avoid a collision with an ascending skier (and perhaps their dog)

The problem I have with that complaint is that another downward bound skier could have stopped or fallen at any point on the trail and downward bound skiers have a responsibility to avoid them (both by the  The Skier Responsibility Code and Washington State Law)

Quote
Because of the inherent risks in the sport of skiing all persons using the ski hill shall exercise reasonable care for their own safety. However, the primary duty shall be on the person skiing downhill to avoid any collision with any person or object below him or her.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #92 on: 01/30/17, 07:43 PM »

Thing is, there is a route that avoids the downhill skier traffic.
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #93 on: 01/30/17, 07:46 PM »

Thing is, there is a route that avoids the downhill skier traffic.

Re-read what I said above -- especially the part about some other downhill skier might have fallen in downhill track and be blocking the trail.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #94 on: 01/31/17, 08:08 AM »

Thing is, this is a ski area.
We pay for access to lifts and trails, that includes exit trails.
This has been going on far longer than peoples interest in using the back end of lot 4 as their touring access point.

Take a look at a map.
Consider the relatively small area that Alpental occupies.
Now look at all the terrain that can be accesses surrounding the pass and other areas East and or North of the crest...

To me, I am hearing "why so selfish?" about terrain around Alpental.
AFAIK, why is it that people can't leave the little bit that is Alpental alone for those who have paid for that service and go some place else where there wont be conflict?

The whole "this is public land and I should be able to do whatever I want" is an invalid, self entitled argument for special snowflakes.
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BrianT
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #95 on: 01/31/17, 08:23 AM »

http://www.summitatsnoqualmie.com/mountains/safety/bc-policy

The Alpental Back Bowls are outside of the developed portion of Alpental Ski Area. The Back Bowls lie within the Alpental Ski Area use permit, but have some additional rules of use and require a more self reliant mindset .  The true backcountry lies outside of the ski area boundary and is not managed by the ski area.  Hazards, both in the Back Bowls and in the backcountry; including large cliffs, obstacles, changing snow conditions and avalanche-prone slopes, are unmarked. The Alpental Back Bowls and the backcountry are not actively patrolled by the Alpental Ski Patrol.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/mbs/passes-permits/event-commercial

From my reading this I see that going up the Lot 4 lot is perfectly OK hiking and with a pup. However, forest rules would state that a dog SHOULD be on leash. I have a pup, and take her out off-lease in the national forest when touring, but I try to avoid popular area's like this. I do believe that Lot4 should NOT be used for touring from and should be considered as part of Summit's parking as that area is gated off after the resort is closed which leads me to believe that the area there is private.  Perhaps a parking pass for ski pass holders would be in order to help with some of this?

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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #96 on: 01/31/17, 08:24 AM »

Those are legit points, GravityMK, but I don't think anyone is making an "I can do whatever I want" argument.

IMHO since the land is publicly owned, as opposed to completely private, the ski company has a duty to allow uphill traffic in a safe and regulated manner. An approach that seems to be managed effectively at a multitude of ski areas across the country.

I'll also be the first to admit this is a completely theoretical argument for me. I don't ski at Alpental and if i did I'd buy a ticket!
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #97 on: 01/31/17, 08:25 AM »

Re-read what I said above -- especially the part about some other downhill skier might have fallen in downhill track and be blocking the trail.

OK, sure I can see why you would apply that to support your argument and view...
However, that was clearly written with "ski runs" in mind, not a ski out traverse trail that was created to provide a gravity fed return that is meant to bring "down hill skiers and snowboarders" back to the base.

The reality is, people are playing on parts of it with children on sleds, etc, hiking up against the flow with infants in backpacks etc. Why would you place either a skier or hiker in position that could ruin each others day not to mention life?
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #98 on: 01/31/17, 08:32 AM »

Those are legit points, GravityMK, but I don't think anyone is making an "I can do whatever I want" argument.

Not in so many words - however it has come up here and in other places and it's also sometimes a prevailing attitude of people that are walking up with little or no awareness. My response is also driven by personal experience with a problem (since the beginning of the season) that is getting worse. The last thing i want to see or hear about is people getting hurt (or worse) in a situation that could be avoided.

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JPH
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #99 on: 01/31/17, 10:40 AM »

I park there occasionally to tour.  I also have (and have had for a decade) a season's pass for the Summit, so I don't feel like I'm taking advantage of anyone by parking there or using the shuttle if I start at the Commonwealth TH and finish at Alpental.

What time is the first skier coming down the narrow part of the return track?  Anything accessed from the lower gate would be on the wide, groomed track.  It doesn't seem like there should be much of a conflict before about 10am.  Can't we get our collective asses out of bed a little earlier for a tour and be to Source lake by 10? Who sleeps in on a ski day anyways?

Obviously that doesn't help the family/sledding situation, but where are those people supposed to go?  Ski areas are the about the only free places to park up there and there's not much low hanging (and free) fruit for kids sledding.
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #100 on: 01/31/17, 10:54 AM »

Perhaps a parking pass for ski pass holders would be in order to help with some of this?

As much as I am loathe to admit it, i think this is the most logical path to help mitigate the rising conflict.  

In fact, if the summit was managed by its ownership directly i think you would have seen this happen already as it makes me wonder if Boyne's operating lease is set up to properly incentivize them to take such steps.

and before anyone gets their panties in a twist, i'm not advocating for excluding non lift riders from parking but rather charging a higher rate to account for the revenue lost when all lots are full and 15-20% of available spots are occupied by non patrons.


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Pete_H
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #101 on: 01/31/17, 12:14 PM »

There really isn't anywhere to park at the pass to access the standard touring spots that isn't ski area parking - Commonwealth, Snoqualmie Mtn / Phantom, Source Lake, etc.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #102 on: 01/31/17, 12:48 PM »

A parking pass that comes with your season pass or with a day ticket would be one way...
That seems like a band aid for a larger problem though, which is;

Where can people in the Puget Sound who aren't skiers or snowboarders go to have a Winter experience?
Current resources at the Pass are quickly overwhelmed and the residents are some times unfairly put upon.

JMO - The state and the Forest service needs to step up and develop/promote more areas on either side of the crest that will allow people to be able to visit and enjoy a winter environment in a way that isn't in conflict with others or in harms way (think Tinkham Road Exit sliding area for instance).
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #103 on: 01/31/17, 01:16 PM »

OK, sure I can see why you would apply that to support your argument and view...
However, that was clearly written with "ski runs" in mind, not a ski out traverse trail that was created to provide a gravity fed return that is meant to bring "down hill skiers and snowboarders" back to the base.

The reality is, people are playing on parts of it with children on sleds, etc, hiking up against the flow with infants in backpacks etc. Why would you place either a skier or hiker in position that could ruin each others day not to mention life?

The "return tracks" are every bit a "ski run" as anything else at Alpental -- just narrower.    It seems that core issue is that you believe that you have the  to ski these narrow "return tracks" at a speed where your ability to avoid a collision with others using the trail (whether they are heading up or down) is questionable.   

So whom is the bigger jerk? -- the know nothing snowshoer with their kid in a backpack foolishly plodding up the "down track"-- or the totally rad downhill skier clocking along at 25mph that slams into them?

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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #104 on: 01/31/17, 01:27 PM »

A parking pass that comes with your season pass or with a day ticket would be one way...

Oregon uses something like this -- *ALL* cars parked in lift ski area lots require a ODOT "sno-park" pass $25 annually, $9 for a three day pass, $4 for a day pass.

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/6642.pdf

Personally I think it is a good approach, but I suspect WA lift area operators would oppose a move to such a system vigorously.

I'm not sure it would do much to reduce the troubles with fools wandering up along the Alpental "return track" -- unless the DOL adds a "How drive, ski and walk on snow without being a jerk" learning requirement to purchase of such a pass.
« Last Edit: 01/31/17, 01:51 PM by Randy » Logged
AlpineRose
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #105 on: 01/31/17, 02:42 PM »

Quote
The state and the Forest service needs to step up and develop/promote more areas on either side of the crest that will allow people to be able to visit and enjoy a winter environment in a way that isn't in conflict with others or in harms way (think Tinkham Road Exit sliding area for instance). 

Great idea but merely mentioning it on an internet forum won't get anything done. 
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #106 on: 01/31/17, 05:25 PM »

If pedestrians used the pedestrians route, there would be no problem.
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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #107 on: 01/31/17, 05:42 PM »

The "return tracks" are every bit a "ski run" as anything else at Alpental -- just narrower.    It seems that core issue is that you believe that you have the  to ski these narrow "return tracks" at a speed where your ability to avoid a collision with others using the trail (whether they are heading up or down) is questionable.   

So whom is the bigger jerk? -- the know nothing snowshoer with their kid in a backpack foolishly plodding up the "down track"-- or the totally rad downhill skier clocking along at 25mph that slams into them?

You have missed the point. Not surprising.
When was the last time you were up to Alpental?
Have you been on the traverse out?
Have you experienced this first hand?

25 mph? [snort/shakes head]





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gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #108 on: 01/31/17, 05:42 PM »

Great idea but merely mentioning it on an internet forum won't get anything done. 

You're assuming this is the only place that is has been brought up then...
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #109 on: 01/31/17, 06:33 PM »

You have missed the point. Not surprising.

The point being that you feel that your lift skiing experience is being unfairly infringed upon by "plodders" that didn't follow the instructions on some sign.

I've heard a lot of gnashing of teeth by a lot of skiers about (snowshoers, booters, NOB skiers, etc) other people not following some "rules" about keeping the ski track over a lot of decades.   

These complaints have their foundation in the expectation that others should make an extra effort in so that the skier's has a better experience.

Given human nature -- I find it interesting that people keep hoping others will change.

I won't say the last time I skied out that way -- but rather the 1st -- that was in 1972.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #110 on: 01/31/17, 07:54 PM »

was there a LoT4 dog park in 72'?
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #111 on: 02/02/17, 08:24 AM »

Interesting twist on The LoT4 dog park yesterday.
Instead of dogs n tourons, it was occupied by a troop of Girl Scouts.
They were very respectful and cleaned up after themselves!
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natefred
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #112 on: 02/02/17, 01:38 PM »

Oregon uses something like this -- *ALL* cars parked in lift ski area lots require a ODOT "sno-park" pass $25 annually, $9 for a three day pass, $4 for a day pass.

I think only a few ski area lots are designated as sno-parks. Most you can park at without a sno-park pass.
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Randy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #113 on: 02/02/17, 04:32 PM »

I think only a few ski area lots are designated as sno-parks. Most you can park at without a sno-park pass.

Timberline, Ski Bowl, Mount Hood Meadows, Mt Ashland all require sno-parks.  I think Mt Batchelor does not.
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snojones
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #114 on: 02/03/17, 09:35 AM »

First of all, let me the refer to the law, which states that a downhill skier must avoid people below them!  There is no excuse for skiing past this fundamental point of control, on any slope or trail.  As far as I am concerned if you hit somebody who was down hill form you, you are "out of control" and at fault.  No questions about it!   You hit them you phucked up.

However, I think it is using an overly broad brush to paint a picture in which Skiers should have no attachment to the ski tracks they work hard to break and maintain in deep snow....     
 
Don't worry that the people who posthole the skin track are destroying a lot of hard work.  No problem that everyone who skis that trail will have to do a lot more hard work as a result.  After all skin tracks make it easier for the uneducated to wallow up the mountain.   Never mind that once post holed, the track is potentially degraded for weeks, for everyone who follows,  either climbing or descending.  I mean isn't it their right to do what ever they want?  Being educated and compassionate is so unamerikan.

Maybe those skin tracking whiners should just accept that ignorance is a basic human right?  If so... can they now take a dump in the track along with the dogs?  I mean who wants to go way off track to preform their basic peristaltic duty?  That is such a hassle!

It seems to me that a path to a better future would involve consideration for everybody's point of view.   Give the hikers an exclusive place to practice their postholing, dog parks for dog shit, and an outhouse for humans, weather they they think their shit stinks or not.



« Last Edit: 02/03/17, 09:57 AM by snojones » Logged
alpentalcorey
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #115 on: 02/03/17, 10:52 AM »

What happened to the sign that clearly stated that downhill skiers have the right of way?  I would chip in for a new one if cost is the issue.  The trail is fully within the ski area and not in anything goes everyone equal wilderness.
« Last Edit: 02/03/17, 01:48 PM by alpentalcorey » Logged
gravitymk
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #116 on: 02/06/17, 07:34 PM »

Not my point.... At all.

Clearly, you are attached to your limited understanding of the situation.
By your own admission you have no practical understanding of whats going on out there.
So, maybe try sticking to a subject you actually have some practical working knowledge with.
MmmmKay?

For everyone that keeps quoting the law.
How many of you take your kids to play in the snow in the middle of a ski run?
Show of hands?

PS. This isn't about telling people they can't so much as it is about helping those who don't know better to establish a level of awareness that would help them make better choices.

PS. PS. Signs are coming

The point being that you feel that your lift skiing experience is being unfairly infringed upon by "plodders" that didn't follow the instructions on some sign.

I won't say the last time I skied out that way -- but rather the 1st -- that was in 1972.

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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #117 on: 02/07/17, 05:05 AM »

What happened to the sign that clearly stated that downhill skiers have the right of way?  I would chip in for a new one if cost is the issue.  The trail is fully within the ski area and not in anything goes everyone equal wilderness.
i have proof of that sign from it's original location
at the head of the source lake uphill dog park trail.
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snojones
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #118 on: 02/07/17, 09:34 AM »

In the interest of education;... Maybe a new sign that renames the place "Dog Shit Wallows" could be helpful? 
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rlsg
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #119 on: 02/07/17, 01:21 PM »

Wow...this is getting deep!'  No complaints thpugh..
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #120 on: 02/07/17, 05:39 PM »

The Southern Resort @Crystal imposes a fee and special permit in order to park in their most convenient parking area. If LoT4 needs to be special permit parking for weekend use, I'd put my name on the edict.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #121 on: 02/09/17, 08:07 AM »

Dog Park been deep and very un-crowded.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #122 on: 02/09/17, 01:16 PM »

It's a long walk to the dog park when the pass is closed at Exit 34 Grin
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #123 on: 02/13/17, 06:48 AM »

Bachelor has a dedicated dog park in the West Village parking lot.
The area is large, plowed and groomed, with poop bags and garbage cans.
Amazing place to let the dogs run unmolested by ski traffic!
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gravyb
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #124 on: 02/13/17, 11:27 AM »

Yeah, but like you know I live in Seattle and stuff.  My cujo-rotty needs his alpine recreation just like you.  I like to go to Alpental on the weekends and I told all my bros how sick it is.  Don't worry about cujo growling at you, I think he's really friendly.  Watch your grill, sometimes he snatches brats right off of there.  Don't get mad at me, cujo's gonna explore the lot and do his eating and pooping in real time.  I love my cujo.
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river59
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #125 on: 02/13/17, 06:40 PM »

Bachelor has a dedicated dog park in the West Village parking lot.
The area is large, plowed and groomed, with poop bags and garbage cans.
Amazing place to let the dogs run unmolested by ski traffic!

Same down here at Mt Hood Meadows. I am truly surprised that more resorts don't have a dog park that is away from lifts and dedicated runs. What would be the cost of such an undertaking? A little grooming now and then, some poo bags and a few garbage cans... a couple hundred bones a year?

I am surprised that the USFS doesn't mandate the building of such a place when issuing special use permits...especially when most resorts parking lots are located in or very near sensitive alpine meadow/wetland areas!

I take my dog with me on all of my meadow skipping tours, but she is a big ol' bitch that is easily offended by the presence of other dogs in her domain. She is ALWAYS harnessed and on a stout leash, but that doesn't stop uncontrolled dogs from running up and getting in her face, despite my warnings to their dipshit owners (when they are even around). Even if your dog is "friendly" and "just trying to say hi," mine isn't and will likely rip your dog's face off, if given half a chance.

Can't tell you how many times I have looked up to see a rogue dog bounding down the trail with no owners in sight. A few minutes later, tweedledum comes around the corner to see my dog 3 feet off the ground, teeth bared, growling, mouth foaming. Then I get the question..."is yours friendly?" Me: "Oh yeah, I always carry my 90 # dog around like a suitcase on tours...helluva arm workout."

Just more motivation to start earlier, go further, seek quieter slopes and take unconventional routes.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #126 on: 02/14/17, 06:49 AM »

I heart 4 cujo's, one is fond of LoT3, the others chill closer to the pack.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #127 on: 02/14/17, 06:52 AM »

Same down here at Mt Hood Meadows. I am truly surprised that more resorts don't have a dog park that is away from lifts and dedicated runs. What would be the cost of such an undertaking? A little grooming now and then, some poo bags and a few garbage cans... a couple hundred bones a year?

I am surprised that the USFS doesn't mandate the building of such a place when issuing special use permits...especially when most resorts parking lots are located in or very near sensitive alpine meadow/wetland areas!

I take my dog with me on all of my meadow skipping tours, but she is a big ol' bitch that is easily offended by the presence of other dogs in her domain. She is ALWAYS harnessed and on a stout leash, but that doesn't stop uncontrolled dogs from running up and getting in her face, despite my warnings to their dipshit owners (when they are even around). Even if your dog is "friendly" and "just trying to say hi," mine isn't and will likely rip your dog's face off, if given half a chance.

Can't tell you how many times I have looked up to see a rogue dog bounding down the trail with no owners in sight. A few minutes later, tweedledum comes around the corner to see my dog 3 feet off the ground, teeth bared, growling, mouth foaming. Then I get the question..."is yours friendly?" Me: "Oh yeah, I always carry my 90 # dog around like a suitcase on tours...helluva arm workout."

Just more motivation to start earlier, go further, seek quieter slopes and take unconventional routes.
River, this is such a so great post! More better ski area dog parks!!!!
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #128 on: 02/20/17, 05:27 AM »

Dog Park was busier than the lift park.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #129 on: 02/23/17, 05:22 PM »

bunch of packed snow refroze, exit to LoT4 is narrow chute at LoT level.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #130 on: 02/25/17, 08:07 PM »

WTF was that all about with the massive invasion
of tourons occupation of LoT4 early this morning?
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #131 on: 02/25/17, 10:08 PM »

I'm okay with the uphill dog walkers using Lot 4... I just wish they'd learn how to park like normal human beings and use the right lane(s) on the highway
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #132 on: 02/26/17, 07:12 PM »

Wooley tried to start a driving thread.
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pipedream
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #133 on: 02/26/17, 08:23 PM »

I think we must've angered the hive as there were 10x more cars on the source lake end of Lot 4 this morning than there were on the St. Bernard side

Parking was tight, I heard even the overflow lots filled-up. I guess that's what happens when you get 10x the snow overnight than the alternative regional touring hotspot
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #134 on: 02/27/17, 05:43 AM »

...plus the pugetopolis powder tech alert sent over the airwaves by mgmt.
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flowing alpy
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #135 on: Yesterday at 07:13:54 AM »

Source Lake Uphill Dog Park was quiet this weekend.
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haggis
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #136 on: Yesterday at 07:22:09 AM »

But the melting snow shall reveal the true user density.
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Jim Oker
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #137 on: Yesterday at 11:29:51 AM »

Have the frozen tootsie rolls been melting out  yet  on the  warmer days?

Wooley indeed started a driving  threat - learned a bit about how  junior safety patrol officers attempt to  manage traffic on the highway by illegally camping in  the left lane. At home in WA I guess!
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wooley12
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Re: source lake uphill dog park trail
« Reply #138 on: Yesterday at 11:23:47 PM »

I realized that for me, leaving the pass it is best to camp in the right lane tucked between "by the load" gypsy container trucks. Friday is looking good for a visit to lot 4.
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The stem christie is a legitimate backcountry turn
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