October 16, 2005, Paradise Ice Cave
10/16/05
WA Cascades West Slopes South (Mt Rainier)
4551
17
Jerry, Jeanette, Doug and I arrived a Paradise to a balmy 39 degrees and "on instruments". What with several of the party being classified as " elderly", the plan was to bag October turns, with the least amount of brain damage (aka, suffering). We decided we would start up the mountain to see what conditions were encountered and then adjust accordingly, to most efficiently attain the objective.
In less than an hour the winds had increased to a point that was threatening the fun threshold. A hasty palaver revealed a consensus that past experience amongst the group had seldom see winds diminish with increased elevation. There was also a distinct shortage in party members wishing to experience high winds in marginal skiing snow conditions. Thus the team became redirected to the ample (albeit not fresh) snows resting above the little currently known Paradise Ice Cave:
Thus, we managed to stay out of the wind in relative comfort to attain our primary objective.
Photo ops were scarce in the muted light, but we nonetheless managed to get pics Jerry getting in some turns here and here,
and Doug crankin' 'em here and here.
In less than an hour the winds had increased to a point that was threatening the fun threshold. A hasty palaver revealed a consensus that past experience amongst the group had seldom see winds diminish with increased elevation. There was also a distinct shortage in party members wishing to experience high winds in marginal skiing snow conditions. Thus the team became redirected to the ample (albeit not fresh) snows resting above the little currently known Paradise Ice Cave:
Thus, we managed to stay out of the wind in relative comfort to attain our primary objective.
Photo ops were scarce in the muted light, but we nonetheless managed to get pics Jerry getting in some turns here and here,
and Doug crankin' 'em here and here.
Well Ron, I guess that's photographic evidence of October turns in the bag. One more month and this Jibber's gestation period comes to end and..."turned all year." That'll be fun.
That was and interesting route yesterday. It opened up some new territory for me and tied some critical Paradise waypoints together.
Hey, have you heard about the secret cold war era Chinese cosmonaut training camp on Mt. Rainier?
That was and interesting route yesterday. It opened up some new territory for me and tied some critical Paradise waypoints together.
Hey, have you heard about the secret cold war era Chinese cosmonaut training camp on Mt. Rainier?
It was a rather challenging day, weatherwise >:(. I always hate the transition from summer to, full on, fall condtions, but then again Ron was able to crank out at least one more turn than me this past Sunday.
Gotta say I enjoyed my October turns more than my September turns 8) C'mon winter !
Sometimes the kids have the right idea.
You wrote "A hasty palaver revealed a consensus that past experience amongst the group had seldom see winds diminish with increased elevation."
I thought the same on Saturday, but Skip found that:
"After leaving you, we continued through the whiteout to Muir and, to our delight, found the uppermost section of the trek both wind-protected and collecting snow. Moreover, we were approaching the top of the clouds, so visibility was much improved over 700' below. It was far more pleasing than what we expected. The run down - lovely."
Wish I still had the kid's energy!
We still had a fun day despite the wind and rain. I think someone once said "When I stop havin' fun, I'm turnin' around."
Better turns will be had later this month, no doubt.
You wrote "A hasty palaver revealed a consensus that past experience amongst the group had seldom see winds diminish with increased elevation."
I thought the same on Saturday, but Skip found that:
"After leaving you, we continued through the whiteout to Muir and, to our delight, found the uppermost section of the trek both wind-protected and collecting snow. Moreover, we were approaching the top of the clouds, so visibility was much improved over 700' below. It was far more pleasing than what we expected. The run down - lovely."
Wish I still had the kid's energy!
We still had a fun day despite the wind and rain. I think someone once said "When I stop havin' fun, I'm turnin' around."
Better turns will be had later this month, no doubt.
Yeah, we had a good time, too, Silas.
Sometimes you just don't know...
at times making calls on mountain weather is nothing but a crap shoot, eh? Skip and the crowd he runs with can certainly cover ground, I do know that.
"One man's meat's another's poison" though. We saw some pretty cold, soaked and miserable looking souls coming back to their cars Sunday; but they all looked reasonably happy.
Another thing I like about playing in the mountains is there's really no "right" way to do things as long as you make it back to the car in one piece and happy with the experience.
Funny though, invariably when there's weather like we had Sunday, there seems to be a preponderance of comments like "but we got some good exercise" or "we still had a great time" while some might be thinking they might have been better off to just yuk it up in the car for while and then go for burgers ;D
I'm still praying for snow ;)
Sometimes you just don't know...
at times making calls on mountain weather is nothing but a crap shoot, eh? Skip and the crowd he runs with can certainly cover ground, I do know that.
"One man's meat's another's poison" though. We saw some pretty cold, soaked and miserable looking souls coming back to their cars Sunday; but they all looked reasonably happy.
Another thing I like about playing in the mountains is there's really no "right" way to do things as long as you make it back to the car in one piece and happy with the experience.
Funny though, invariably when there's weather like we had Sunday, there seems to be a preponderance of comments like "but we got some good exercise" or "we still had a great time" while some might be thinking they might have been better off to just yuk it up in the car for while and then go for burgers ;D
I'm still praying for snow ;)
I checked that cave out also. I couldn't quit walk all of the way through it with my skis.
It was nice meeting some of you (not sure who all of you were exactly). 8)
It was nice meeting some of you (not sure who all of you were exactly). 8)
Jason - did you see the old SIGN?
and the old TIN beer cans?
Pretty cool, eh?
There's also several, what looks like (possibly) ruins of temporary shelters - lots of smashed up wood 2x2's and heavy burlap netting. Couldn't really figure out what they were for sure. That's what Doug was talking about with the "cosmonaut camp". The netting made me think of meadow repairs but there's no meadows in the area, just rocks and snow, and the 2x2's were far too plentiful (and formerly long) to be used for netting stakes -- there is easily enough to provide frames for some kind of shelters. They certainly got mashed down into the rocks though.
It would sure be interesting to know what they were...
Anybody know? Take a guess?
I also found some parts from old wood pack frames.
I was tempted to start an archeological dig ;)
and the old TIN beer cans?
Pretty cool, eh?
There's also several, what looks like (possibly) ruins of temporary shelters - lots of smashed up wood 2x2's and heavy burlap netting. Couldn't really figure out what they were for sure. That's what Doug was talking about with the "cosmonaut camp". The netting made me think of meadow repairs but there's no meadows in the area, just rocks and snow, and the 2x2's were far too plentiful (and formerly long) to be used for netting stakes -- there is easily enough to provide frames for some kind of shelters. They certainly got mashed down into the rocks though.
It would sure be interesting to know what they were...
Anybody know? Take a guess?
I also found some parts from old wood pack frames.
I was tempted to start an archeological dig ;)
Could it be remnants of use of the WW II ski troops of the Army 87th Regiment?
Yeah, Rando, that's right. The Army trained soldiers for mountain warfair on Rainier. The debris was down in a terrain trap at the bottom of an avy slope (not an ideal winter camping) but I suspect if the debris was part of the soldier's camp(s) they were most likely up higher on the ridge 60 or so years ago. In fact I camped with RMI in 1995 during a winter seminar higher up on that same ridge.
Maybe they build 2x2 framed burlap tents to get snowed in for ready made snowcaves??
Maybe they build 2x2 framed burlap tents to get snowed in for ready made snowcaves??
Sorry Ron, when I saw "cave" in the title, I didn't read the 'Paradise Ice Cave'. I thought that you were talking about the little one that just opened up above pebble creek. That's what I get for multi-tasking ;D
ruins of temporary shelters ...lots of smashed up wood 2x2's ...heavy burlap netting. Couldn't really figure out what they were for sure.
perhaps stuff to reuse to build some bunks?? ;)
no doubt you guys took advantage of the day, way to have a good time out there and discover some treasures!
... perhaps stuff to reuse to build some bunks?? ;)Oooh, yeah. Great idea, Ally.
Although it might raise some eyebrows with the rangers when we started arriving at the parking lot with these huge bundles of lumber strapped to our pack, eh? Mountain cleanup project?...
Nonetheless, if it was the Army I was reading somewhere (possibly on Lowell's site) that they used mules to haul in materials and supplies for the soldiers training at Rainier, and later also has some sort of motorized toboggan that would carry something like 1,500 pounds of supplies. That could certainly explain how it all got up there. Interesting...
Then again I thought that the debris could be remains of some sort of communications or timing sheds for support personnel from the Silver Skis races.
Any other thoughts on what the debris might be?
They used to brace the tunnels of the ice caves themselves somewhat like they brace mine tunnels. But if these are truly 2x2, that seems like the wrong grade lumber for that job, you'd need 4x4 at a minimum.
Any other thoughts on what the debris might be?
Secret Cold War era Chinese Cosmonaut training facility complete with a house of prostitution?
The obvious moonscape, the lipstick and pink comb we found there... The political need for productive team building as an alternative to mutual destruction... A way out of the Cold War... Isn't it obvious?
I guess we need to go back and pick up that glass Coca-cola bottle and look on the bottom, it should have a date there, that would give us somewhat of a clue :D.
Any other thoughts on what the debris might be?
I'm not clear on where you found the debris, but there used to be a lookout on Anvil Rock. George Senner told me about it. He was stationed there during the summer of 1942, when the mountain troops were still training on Rainier. Here are some notes from my conversation with him on 6/15/2001. George passed away a couple years ago.
In the spring and summer of 1942 George was a fire lookout at Anvil Rock on Mt Rainier. He remembers being "up in the clouds most of the summer." The War Department was concerned about Japanese planes near the West Coast, so he also served as an intelligence observer. He reported his observations in code every day on a radio that didn't work very well. There was also a single-wire telephone line running from Paradise to Anvil Rock. You can still see remnants of it today. Meltwater on warm afternoons often caused the telephone line to short out.
From Anvil Rock George could sometimes see mountain troops training below. There was an encampment near Reflection Lakes and he could see soldiers moving about on skis at times. One day a guy wearing army clothes came down from Camp Muir on skis and said that his buddy had fallen into a crevasse. This was Bob Parker, later a founder and long-time V.P. of the Vail ski resort. Senner and Parker ran back up to Camp Muir to help. They found that Parker's companions had pulled the fellow out of the crevasse by tying their canvas ski socks toether. (He was down 25 to 30 feet.)
If you're really curious about the debris, I could put you in touch with Bob McIntyre of the Mountaineers History Committee (send me a PM). He has made a study of old buildings on the mountain.
I always hate the transition from summer to, full on, fall conditions...
In New England, we have decided to skip fall entirely this year and instead go straight from summer to winter -- TR coming up!
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