Snowmobiles at Artist Point! WTF

I'm not one to normally complain about snowmobile usage, but to the best of my knowledge I thought snowmobiles were not allowed in the Artist Point area or beyond in the Mount Baker area.  Hence this is why I normally ski in this area is so I don't have to worry about someone not paying attention and running me over with that 500 plus pound machine.  It looks like these are people who work at the Mount Baker ski area and who sometimes tow their buddies, while I'm huffing and puffing trying to get fresh tracks.  If it's legal, my bad. 

ask to race their machines on the downhill, i bet you win.

Snowmobiles should be able to go everywhere that's not Wilderness, get used to it. I don't think it's right but that seems to be the way things are heading and that's the stance the snowmobile community takes.

A quick search reveals that snowmoblies and motorized vehicles in general are prohibited in the Artist Point area- www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/mbs/recreation/r...recid=17526&actid=50

Maybe they need to be reminded.

Fines directed at Mt Baker ski area should shut that BS down quick (if that's who is doing it).
I do know that the back side of Stevens Pass opens up to sledding in the Spring, but I have never heard of an Artists Point limited opening.

It's not wilderness, and it is a road atleast to the point...

you won't see joe sledhead ever go there though, I would put my money on the mt baker ski area workers. With the hoardes of boot stomping tourists there I wouldn't mind a sled track to skin on going up.. hold out a few beers and they might give you a tow. I've towed random skiers up the Easton when I am at the mountain

www.wilderness.net/map

It's not wilderness, and it is a road atleast to the point...

Those are applicable and legalizing technicalities.
But there would be too much user conflict in a small area. Best to "let them have it".

on both of these places... Skyline Ridge and Artist Point.. you aren't dealing with sledders. You are dealing with ski area workers/skiers. I have seen the snowmobile up on Skyline Ridge, it is a worker's sled (the one I saw was). You will never see a "sled-head" go to either of these places. No reason to, and they don't want to stir up a hornets nest by doing so anyway. You should send complaints to Mt Baker ski area, ask them if they know what is going on.

Seems like a non issue. If you look at a topo map its pretty clearly not wilderness and paved. Why mess with the folks that make the resort function, are first responders and maintain the lot backcountry users utilize? You'd be better off being cool and hoping for a lift or going further out, away from the madness of lolly-gagging snowshoers and whatnot.

Ok, let assume to area up to the Artist Point lot is legal for snowmobiles(seems a bit unclear), anywhere past is non-motorized year round. OP, did the snowmobiles go past the parking lot area?

Snowmobiles are excluded under the special use permit held by the ski area except for their in area use. "No Snowmobiles" is posted clearly on the road approaching the lower Lodge gate. Sometimes WASDOT might use machines to access the snow depths prior to plowing.

Ski area workers should not be going beyond the Blueberry Cat Track in snowmobiles.

Seems like a non issue. If you look at a topo map its pretty clearly not wilderness and paved. Why mess with the folks that make the resort function, are first responders and maintain the lot backcountry users utilize? You'd be better off being cool and hoping for a lift or going further out, away from the madness of lolly-gagging snowshoers and whatnot.

Well, actually the area is good because there are not snowmoblile track trashing it. If you want trashed go up Canyon Creek, Glacier Creek, or the disaster called Schreibers Meadows...

I spend a lot of time in the bagley creek vicinity and snowmobiles are just not a problem. Who knows the specifics of this uncommon case but its really not worth getting spun up about.

I've occasionally seen snomo tracks in the flat area between artist point and table mt. Figured it was resort folks having some fun. Not sure of the specific legalities but as long as they're not trashing the downhill lines, it doesn't bother me too much. For that matter I've seen skyline lake tattooed with tracks. A little bit of a wilderness experience downer but slip over the ridge and it's fine.

Who knows the specifics of this uncommon case but its really not worth getting spun up about.

Unless you actually want the rules enforced so visitors including many way cool skiers get the experience they expect.  Adhering to the regulations makes the area meet its demands as requested by the public through extensive process.  Complaints should be registered to keep the FS and the ski area aware and in a better position to remedy the problem.  

as long as they're not trashing the downhill lines, it doesn't bother me too much

... why of course, your deal is skiing the downhill lines, what about the folks that enjoy the flats, mellow uphills, and expect not to see the landscape thrashed?

Add some perspective and a little dimension to the short view...

T.E, I understand that perspective, which is why I mentioned the skyline incident where I was out to enjoy a beautiful place and was disappointed to find that reality did not meet my expectations. Both areas are heavily traveled. At skyline I'm more annoyed by the snowshoe postholes that make the descent back to the parking lot difficult to ski. Aesthetically I don't see much difference between that and the snowmobile tracks except for the amount of noise they make in the act of creation. I don't particularly enjoy the passing of military aircraft either, something that happens regularly in the stevens pass corridor (although I do remember enjoying a summer evening at artist point highlighted by a formation flyby of the RCA Snowbirds).

Mark, the thing about the Artist Point/Herman Saddle are that makes it so unusual is that it is accessible to all levels of experience and age. That so many use this area and expect the reasonable quiet of the mountains usually reserved only to the fitter younger crew.

The access to the Bagley/Artist Point trailheads is remarkable and enjoyed by many. A few knuckleheads should be (excuse me) de-rided for screwing around on snowmobiles. A lot of effort has gone into making that area work the way it does with plowed access to amazing terrain and parking.

Think of why you spend so much time around Bagley Creek; likely the ease of access. Imagine how popular the place would be if you had to hike up from the Nooksack...

I think we need to call in the wambulance...

Seriously, get over it guys.

Seriously, get over it guys.

... or not!

It may not be an issue to you, but to others it is a problem...

The "Band of Brothers" need permission from Duncan or Gwen to even leave the ski area. They will go out to help with rescues or ferry the DOT guys up to the parking lot to measure the snow depth in May and June. Without specifics it is not very helpful to post as it just gets everyone's mouth frothing. I seriously doubt ski area folks are out doing sled laps. But hey, convince me with some better info.

I'll spend my time worrying about about the people that think skinning UP from the Bagley Lakes basin is ok vs. the odd snowmobile track on the road area up top. The former is much more common, inconvenient, and dangerous for everyone.

LOUD NOISES!

Aesthetically I don't see much difference between that and the snowmobile tracks except for the amount of noise they make in the act of creation. 

Yeah, and other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? The noise is the thing, and I would be pissed if I saw them whining around up there. Now, if they were up there for an important reason, that is completely different. They would also leave fairly quickly. Also, if they had four stroke engines that are really quiet, that would probably be OK. But if it was like Park Butte, with sledders making noise all day, then I would be pissed. There are only a handful of places like Artist Point. Only two, really. I'm talking:

1) Reasonable driving distance from Seattle (although it isn't exactly short).
2) Mild, easy, off road, off trail terrain. I've skied up there with plain Nordic gear (not BC Nordic). It is challenging with gear like that, but if you take a good line, it can be done.
3) Extremely scenic
4) Wild (or least mostly wild)
5) Easily accessible (you don't have a really long road approach or need to time the snow level just right).

The only other places in my book that compare are Park Butte and Paradise. As mentioned, Park Butte is out because of the snow mobiles. It would really suck if I drove all the way up there to get away from them only to encounter them up there. That would be like visiting the Sistine Chapel and having a guy crank his boombox next to me (with a mix of Tiny Tim and Japanese Opera).

Pinch, thanks for posting that demonstration from a beginner XC lesson. Skiing on skinny skis is part of the bag of tricks many skiers have and utilize throughout the winter.

Snowmobiling at Artist Point makes as much sense as snowmobiling at Paradise. Which is to say, no sense at all.

These are unique, entry-level winter zones that should be non-motorized in winter. It sounds like Artist Point is supposed to be off-limits to snowmobiles. I would not be shy about pointing this out if I encountered them there.

I run into sled tracks up there a couple of times every winter and most of the time it's from the ski patrol going out to rescue a snowshoer with a broken leg (really? How do you break a leg on snowshoes?) but sometimes the tracks seem very excessive for trying to rescue an injured BC traveller. In January there were tracks all over the switch back that's south of Martha's ladder, all over the AP parking lot and up onto the side of Table above the parking lot. I was surprised by it and a little grumpy but I got over it and continued on my way.

I'd still flag down anyone that I saw out there on a sled and question them on what they're doing there and who gave the ok. Chances are it would be a friend and I'd offer to lend a hand in helping out with whatever the situation is.

One more fleeting thought...maybe the ski area is scouting an expansion with a lift from the bottom of the Swift Creek area up to the Artist Point parking lot. It's really the next logical direction to expand and would open up more intermediate terrain. I haven't talked to anyone connected to the ski area, just pure wishful thinking on my part.

I'm not sure where the former Austin rope tow ended but it's somewhere outside of the current ski area
boundary so there is some historical precedence for lift access in that direction and it would open up Table Mountain as the "other Arm".

One more fleeting thought...maybe the ski area is scouting an expansion with a lift from the bottom of the Swift Creek area up to the Artist Point parking lot.  It's really the next logical direction to expand and would open up more intermediate terrain.  I haven't talked to anyone connected to the ski area, just pure wishful thinking on my part.

I'm not sure where the former Austin rope tow ended but it's somewhere outside of the current ski area
boundary so there is some historical precedence for lift access in that direction and it would open up Table Mountain as the "other Arm".

I'd like to know where it ended as well. I even rode the thing a couple times. It was very steep at the end. My first thought would be the switch back on the road but that would make no sense unless you dismantled the rope tow in the off season.
One hell of a powerful rope tow that lifted me off the ground. Some folks have said on here that it was powered by a chevy 350.

I'll pay attention this summer when the snow melts out but I vaguely remember a concrete pad near the S-turn that's just above where the out of bounds sign is in the winter. That could be the top of the old tow but I'm not sure where the bottom was.

I'm not sure where the former Austin rope tow ended but it's somewhere outside of the current ski area boundary so there is some historical precedence for lift access in that direction and it would open up Table Mountain as the "other Arm".

I haven't skied Mt Baker that much, but the only Austin rope tow I remember was located roughly where I've drawn the red line on the following topo map:



There was still a rope tow there in the 1980s at least. I don't remember how high it went. I don't think there has ever been a lift farther west than what I've drawn here.

If anybody knows different, I'll be eager to learn more.