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Author Topic: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent  (Read 75842 times)
powscraper
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #25 on: 04/22/14, 08:41 AM »

Nice looking adventure, looks difficult and exhausting. Prepare to be brutally second-guessed

The need for public management of public resources, vs. being routinely locked out of said public resources... What would John Muir do?

Can't wait to see how Fox News spins this :p
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skykilo
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #26 on: 04/22/14, 10:09 AM »

This trip report (these trip reports) now officially blow(s) my mind.  Kudos on wanting it that badly!   Wink Cheesy Grin

But there is a question I feel compelled to ask: do you normally carry bolt cutters in your vehicle?  I want more details.  Hacksaw?  I am truly curious.  In any situation where I've encountered such an obstacle, I've never had adequate tools with me.  (Not that I would ever do such a thing!  These days I am a letter-and-spirit of the law abiding prude who would not dare risk any type of legal consequence.)

Good job getting up and down that thing in one piece in conditions where I never would have considered descending it.

P.S. Did you see any of these while you were up there?

« Last Edit: 04/22/14, 10:27 AM by skykilo » Logged
Charlie Hagedorn
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #27 on: 04/22/14, 11:08 AM »

It would appear that they did: https://plus.google.com/photos/+AlexLeone/albums/6002308739623361137/6002308748986636850
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hedonaut
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #28 on: 04/22/14, 02:00 PM »


The need for public management of public resources, vs. being routinely locked out of said public resources... What would John Muir do?


This is an interesting tension.  Restricted access to MRNP and the N Cascades sometimes seems to defy reason.

I can see why folks are getting their knickers in a twist about these guys breaking the law.  On the other hand, what damage has been done by a snowmobile on a snow-covered ROAD?  What's the motivation of the NP blocking access to reasonable use of a road, the same road that sees thousands of vehicles?

Is there a particular wildlife-related reason to limit noise on the road during winter?  Why not allow for a narrow slot for sleds to gain access?

Like Sky, I'm just curious--about this, as well as what motivated someone to "ski" that line in that condition.
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dale_72
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #29 on: 04/22/14, 02:21 PM »

Not trying to hurl accusations, but Kyle's post makes me wonder. I was up around Colchuck Lake on the weekend of this TR...

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=31381.0

... and parked at the gate closure at Bridge Creek CG on Saturday. On the way out Sunday we passed two vehicles parked pretty far up eight-mile road. I was confused but figured they knew something/someone we didn't because the gate was still closed.

Are you guys going to fess up to cutting this lock also?
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drescj
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #30 on: 04/22/14, 02:47 PM »

My impression from the TR was that the poster thought there would be snow at the gate, found none, and cut the lock to drive to where sledding was possible. Could be wrong.

One possible motivation for leaving gates locked would be to reduce damage to water-saturated roads in the spring until the road bed/surface can dry out.

If NPS and other agencies (USFS, etc) would explain their reasoning for locking off roads it would probably help alleviate the tension between agencies and communities such as ours.

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BillK
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #31 on: 04/22/14, 02:54 PM »

As far as I know, snowmobiling is very limited in the park...allowed on just a few stretches of snow-covered road.
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Pete_H
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #32 on: 04/22/14, 02:58 PM »

This is an interesting tension.  Restricted access to MRNP and the N Cascades sometimes seems to defy reason.

I can see why folks are getting their knickers in a twist about these guys breaking the law.  On the other hand, what damage has been done by a snowmobile on a snow-covered ROAD?  What's the motivation of the NP blocking access to reasonable use of a road, the same road that sees thousands of vehicles?

Is there a particular wildlife-related reason to limit noise on the road during winter?  Why not allow for a narrow slot for sleds to gain access?

Like Sky, I'm just curious--about this, as well as what motivated someone to "ski" that line in that condition.

I think most here are for having better access, and have been frustrated at some point by over-regulation and restricted access. Therefore, it's easy to look the other way if one of us were to say ski Rainier solo without the right permit or something. However, vandalism of government property and trespass are not productive for improving access for the backcountry and outdoor community in general. I also think it leaves a sour taste that these guys had a "the law doesn't apply to us" arrogance.
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tabski
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #33 on: 04/22/14, 03:09 PM »

What would John Muir do? He would be pissed they paved the road in the first place. He would keep the gates closed all year. He would walk the 15 miles in wearing wool pants and leather boots, sit in a tempest for hours to observe the glaciers, eat an apple and walk back out.

Though the closures can be frustrating, the footprint of your average American visitor is more so.

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jwplotz
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #34 on: 04/22/14, 03:56 PM »

Isn't Dave a federal employee?  I wonder how that factors into his decision, if at all?
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Scotsman
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #35 on: 04/22/14, 04:17 PM »

What would John Muir do? He would be pissed they paved the road in the first place. He would keep the gates closed all year. He would walk the 15 miles in wearing wool pants and leather boots, sit in a tempest for hours to observe the glaciers, eat an apple and walk back out.

Though the closures can be frustrating, the footprint of your average American visitor is more so.



Actually, the silly bugger would have "sauntered".
From his own words.

"One day as I was resting in the shade Mr. Muir overtook me on the trail and began to chat in that friendly way in which he delights to talk with everyone he meets. I said to him: "Mr. Muir, someone told me you did not approve of the word 'hike.' Is that so?" His blue eyes flashed, and with his Scotch accent he replied: "I don't like either the word or the thing. People ought to saunter in the mountains - not hike!

"Do you know the origin of that word 'saunter?' It's a beautiful word. Away back in the Middle Ages people used to go on pilgrimages to the Holy Land, and when people in the villages through which they passed asked where they were going, they would reply, "A la sainte terre,' 'To the Holy Land.' And so they became known as sainte-terre-ers or saunterers. Now these mountains are our Holy Land, and we ought to saunter through them reverently, not 'hike' through them."
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swaterfall
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #36 on: 04/22/14, 04:18 PM »

This is an interesting tension.  Restricted access to MRNP and the N Cascades sometimes seems to defy reason.


This road and HWY 20 are open for snomo traffic all winter.  There are closures in effect during Spring periods when snow removal equipment is active.  I don't see that as overly restrictive.

If the NPS decides that they want to shut down access via snow parks because skiers and sledders completely disregard established regulations then that would be restrictive.

I think sledders in the NW do an excellent job of controlling violators within their group since access to fed lands is so important to them.  Skiers would do well to emulate that.
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powscraper
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #37 on: 04/22/14, 04:20 PM »

The Muir Games, sponsored by Patagonia's new line of woolies and Washington apples

The statistical and operational arguments for restriction are pretty solid on multiple levels. I had always been under the impression that the cool guys knew how to get keys and then didn't talk about it. I've never been that cool though.
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Alex L
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #38 on: 04/22/14, 04:27 PM »


Yeah, we saw a few big avalanches rip down the Willis Wall and few down the Liberty Wall.  Quite the sight, and you can hear them before you see them, so for a few frantic seconds you hope that it's not coming down on top of you (not that it would, since you are climbing a ridge).  The only thing that moved near us was maybe a few pebbles above Thumb Rock, and trying to dodge the dinner plates of ice when I was belaying Dave up the few pitches of glacier ice.
« Last Edit: 04/22/14, 04:35 PM by Alex L » Logged
aaron_wright
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #39 on: 04/22/14, 05:32 PM »

Yeah, we saw a few big avalanches rip down the Willis Wall and few down the Liberty Wall.  Quite the sight, and you can hear them before you see them, so for a few frantic seconds you hope that it's not coming down on top of you (not that it would, since you are climbing a ridge).  The only thing that moved near us was maybe a few pebbles above Thumb Rock, and trying to dodge the dinner plates of ice when I was belaying Dave up the few pitches of glacier ice.
So what's the story with the gate on Eightmile?
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hedonaut
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #40 on: 04/22/14, 05:45 PM »

Thanks for the info. and entertaining replies.  Good points all.  Didn't know that snowmobile access was allowed, then temporarily cut off during the spring--interesting.  Back to my apples.
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dave095790
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #41 on: 04/22/14, 06:05 PM »

So what's the story with the gate on Eightmile?

I'm not sure what the story is.  But, if you will feel better about everything, I will take credit for it.  Let's move on. 
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aaron_wright
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #42 on: 04/22/14, 06:09 PM »

Thanks for the info. and entertaining replies.  Good points all.  Didn't know that snowmobile access was allowed, then temporarily cut off during the spring--interesting.  Back to my apples.
Snowmobiles are only allowed on 410 until the White River Rd. not allowed past or on the White River Rd. These guys should be in jail.
« Last Edit: 04/22/14, 06:13 PM by aaron_wright » Logged
dave095790
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #43 on: 04/22/14, 06:18 PM »

Snowmobiles are only allowed on 410 until the White River Rd. not allowed past or on the White River Rd. These guys should be in jail.

"Snowmobiles are permitted on the 12-mile section of unplowed road from the north park boundary on Highway 410 to the White River Campground. Snowmobiles may not continue on Hwy 410 south of the White River Road turnoff. They are also prohibited from proceeding beyond the closure at the White River Campground road junction towards Sunrise. Snowmobiles must stay on the road corridor; they are not allowed to proceed beyond the campground towards Glacier Basin. Be aware of avalanche danger and the weather forecast. "
-http://www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/winter-recreation.htm#CP_JUMP_147158

I think you misread the statement online. 
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aaron_wright
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #44 on: 04/22/14, 07:01 PM »

"Snowmobiles are permitted on the 12-mile section of unplowed road from the north park boundary on Highway 410 to the White River Campground. Snowmobiles may not continue on Hwy 410 south of the White River Road turnoff. They are also prohibited from proceeding beyond the closure at the White River Campground road junction towards Sunrise. Snowmobiles must stay on the road corridor; they are not allowed to proceed beyond the campground towards Glacier Basin. Be aware of avalanche danger and the weather forecast. "
-http://www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/winter-recreation.htm#CP_JUMP_147158

I think you misread the statement online. 

Yes, you are right. You should still be in jail. What made you think it was ok to cut the lock and drive until you hit snow and then unload your sleds and and continue? This sets a really bad example for sledders and skiers.

Did you cut the lock on Eightmile or do you have a key?
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aaron_wright
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #45 on: 04/22/14, 07:27 PM »

Isn't Dave a federal employee?  I wonder how that factors into his decision, if at all?
Maybe he's a SEAL and has his get out of jail free card?!
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water
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #46 on: 04/22/14, 08:19 PM »

jail huh? you'd rather pay ~$128/day as a taxpayer to have him in jail? Certainly cutting down multiple trees in the north cascades should warrant lots of 'jail' if cutting a $5 lock does.

What is the rationale behind having a road gated in the middle of winter? Or closed when there isn't avalanche risk..  Roll Eyes

If someone rode around into glacier basin or into wilderness area i would be irate, and am when they do (mt. Adams...Badger creek wilderness by Mt. Hood). But on a road they're otherwise allowed to be on... what is the justification for having it closed?
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Jonn-E
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #47 on: 04/22/14, 10:57 PM »

These guys should be in jail.

I thought if someone did something disagreeable in this country we just took them out back and shot them?  Roll Eyes
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aaron_wright
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #48 on: 04/23/14, 06:30 AM »

Jail would be a bit harsh and expensive, it's more the sentiment. They basically got away with a slap on the wrist. I see this as a slap in the face to sledders and bc skiers as a group, it gives us all a bad name.

What if everyone decided to bend or break the law just because they really wanted to do something and had been planning on it? I'd love to ride my mtb in parts of the Wilderness, should I just go ahead and do it? After all having some of those trails closed to bikes is silly, right? What about riding my sled to Sunrise? That would be fun too what's the harm?
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tabski
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Re: 11-14 April Liberty Ridge with Partial Ski Descent
« Reply #49 on: 04/23/14, 07:50 AM »


Quote
Jack: Well, then, I confess: It is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer me weaselly black guts out.
Murtogg: I said no lies!
Mullroy: I think he's telling the truth.
Murtogg: If he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have told us.
Jack: Unless of course he knew you wouldn't believe the truth, even if he told you.
« Last Edit: 04/23/14, 09:19 AM by tabski » Logged
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