Feb 24, 2014 Musings of a Whiner Baby

Maybe I'm just too jumpy, but it seems that people are easing their way onto bigger and bigger lines, and I feel like this snow pack is just like one of those 18 foot crocodiles that lays in the shallow water where the Wildebeest cross. When one steps in just the right place CHOMP!

Well, if what you're saying is that you're not ready to step onto bigger lines right now, I and the crew I ski with was with you this weekend. We chose a route that nearly entirely avoided slide hazard on the ascent and allowed for poking our way into mellow-but-fun slopes for turning and a few slightly steeper but short shots as well (one very consistent thing I've seen with the Canadian ski guides I've skied with is avoidance of sustained steep pitches soon after storm events or when they have a funky layer - then they lean toward slopes that are broken up by benches etc.). Were we "too wimpy?" Who cares? We were all smiles at the car! We weren't comparing "how we did" to how others did...

That said, I'm also aware that there are other folks who consciously decide to accept a different level of risk than me, and I'm also aware that I and my crew did not eliminate all risk of deadly hazard. So we're all choosing some degree of risk. My hope is that the folks getting onto the bigger lines in recent days are reasonably aware of where they are on the risk continuum.

I wouldn't mind a pineapple to flush out this deep instability, the mountains need to go poop.

I'm not allowed to go into the BC this week. Be Safe. Caution the ignorant.

Thanks for starting this thread.
Personally, I was sort of amazed and a bit concerned over a few of the TRs and statements about the goings on around Snoqualmie. Although the Phantom, Slot and Chair Peak circum-nav are some of my very favorite tours. I wouldn't want to get near them with the "low probability/high consequence" persistent weak layer we have now. Perhaps that makes me a wuss, but I am ok with that. There will be other days for my favorite tours. Might be next season before I like the idea of spending time under hang-fire in big country. The tough part is knowing when the terrain is safe and when someone "got away with it".
Selfishly what concerns me is that if a culture is established of going big in bad (my opinion) conditions, then everything will get skied out for everyone who practices good behavior (and patience for things to settle out). About 10 years ago, I decided I really wanted to ski DOA on Blackcomb peak. However, the fact that it is an avy chute bothered me, and I decided I would only go when it was a low danger day (and still relatively untracked). Fast forward a few years, people do it all the time in all conditions and if I wait for safe conditions, I will end up with moguls on that sweet, sweet run. My conditions might never happen.
Hopefully that is not the future for all of our avalanche-able accessible backcountry. Though I know that is already the conditions on some nice "side country", especially around Baker.
End muse.
Stay on the right side of the snow!

I'm annoyed by this trend to post a TR apologizing to the b/c skiing community at large if something happens, including a step-by-step bullet point tome about "what I did wrong".  It's ok to be un-apologetically brash in your approach to skiing and reporting of your skiing.  I'm thankful that the Hummels, Sjue, Dan H., Pretiore, Lurie, et. al's skiing wasn't (and isn't) influenced by the b/c skiing community's opinion of what is acceptable risk.  I and I'm sure many others have used their experiences as inspiration for further adventures.

Go big, medium or small.  Who cares.  But please, stop the self flagellation about it afterwards, because it only detracts from a potentially great read! 

I'm annoyed by this trend to post a TR apologizing to the b/c skiing community at large if something happens, including a step-by-step bullet point tome about "what I did wrong".  It's ok to be un-apologetically brash in your approach to skiing and reporting of your skiing.  I'm thankful that the Hummels, Sjue, Dan H., Pretiore, Lurie, et. al's skiing wasn't (and isn't) influenced by the b/c skiing community's opinion of what is acceptable risk.  I and I'm sure many others have used their experiences as inspiration for further adventures.

Go big, medium or small.  Who cares.  But please, stop the self flagellation about it afterwards, because it only detracts from a potentially great read! 

Are you serious?

If you find thoughtful writing about risk boring, there are other places to find the sort of writing you apparently like. Or you can write it yourself.

But I'm kind of dumb-founded that you would actually criticize it here.

Maybe you're joking and I walked into your joke. If so, ya got me.

I'm annoyed by this trend

I agree, it's screwing up the prose. But we're all so paranoid about this snowpack, the prose is shot through with as much information as possible so noone gets slid to death by following my gung-ho TR.

Hopefully normal service will resume shortly as the weather changes & the weak layer sublimes.

Perhaps I'm, like Lowell, walking into the joke, but I have found reports where people reflected on the circumstances of some bad slips as well as avy encounters to be well worth reading, and not the sort of input I'd want to discourage. And even if a few folks showed that their tails were a bit tucked it hardly came across to me as apologetic to the community at-large. And I doubt any of it is going to discourage any future "first descenders" and they'll continue to inspire alongside meadow-skipping reports along with some self-reflection after incidents.

I don't want to drive thread drift too much, but I've learned at least as much from pioneers' mishaps as successes.

www.cascadecrusades.org/SkiMountaineerin...e2008/seface2008.htm

skisickness.com/CascadePass/NCBuckner/Avy.html

cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php...wflat&Number=1097842

There are more, as there are for anyone, but three may be sufficient to make the point. The writing may be succinct, but lessons are there.


To reply to jtack's original concern, I'm not sure that anyone knows if there's an easily-triggerable avalanche crocodile lurking deep beneath the westside snowpack on any particular slope, but there is uncertainty. We don't see this quantity of accumulation often, so few of us have meaningful experience with it. There will be more powder in March and April.

My safety maxim:

"No need to freak, just wait a week"

I'm thankful that the Hummels, Sjue, Dan H., Pretiore, Lurie, et. al's skiing wasn't (and isn't) influenced by the b/c skiing community's opinion of what is acceptable risk. 

Interesting that you mention these guys. Ever since I've been viewing their stuff on the 'net, I expect to be reading an RIP thread about at least one of them.

Interesting that you mention these guys.  Ever since I've been viewing their stuff on the 'net, I expect to be reading an RIP thread about at least one of them. 

Gnarly. Go find some wood to knock on right now.

Interesting that you mention these guys.  Ever since I've been viewing their stuff on the 'net, I expect to be reading an RIP thread about at least one of them. 

Can we please not go there? Thanks.

This made for a really amusing read on my 35th birthday. Got no answer to anything posited here. Personally I (mostly) avoid avalanche risk these days by living in New Mexico where we'll be lucky to get as much snow this whole season as what fell up there during Amar's last thread.

was as good as the time we HAD to skin hyak;-) a bunch of years ago.
b
happy b day to you and corey.

what's all this whining?!?!? let's all go buy air bags so we can get the goods... it'll be the most fun we've had all season

Not sure an air bag would save someone from the kind of slides that have occurred over the last week (and yes, I did see your smiley:)).    I posted this in a "weak layers thread".   Below is a link to a video from Heli bombing on Wed of the Roostercomb area at Stevens Pass (just outside the boundary on  the backside of the ski area). 



Also, you can see pictures from AC work at Crystal from the King down into Damn Fine Forest:

kimkircher.com/2014/02/23/big-avalanche-...out-treewell-safety/

And large natural slides (ie. Kempers on the backside of Powder Bowl @ Crystal).
www.blogcrystal.com/2014/02/20/avalanche...wells-and-deep-snow/

I know alot of these big slides had explosives to help them on their way, but to me it makes it obvious that the weak layer is there and that there is LOTS of snow on top of it.