Caveat emptor!!!! Paradise, Mt. Rainier

That is Latin for buyer beware; you pays your money and you get thru the gate with daydreams of blower down low.

Just remember park regs say no skiing with less than 4 feet of snow.

I don't expect you to listen to me (or to be familiar with park regs) and I don't expect to listen to you b*tch if you get admonished, tongue-lashed, fined, or find that they ban skiers until there is 4 feet of snow at Paradise.

Pax vobiscum (peace be with you) ...

P.S.: just read Vogtski's post on the older Freebird thread (which I had read just after it was posted) and V-skis says the reg says 5 feet--I've always interpeted this to mean 5 (or 4 or whatever) early in the season before there is any consolidation and that is when the vegetation, included the 3-5 feet high shrubs and trees are most likely to be damaged; later in the season, especially the spring, it seems a foot is more than enough to protect the herbaceous plants, etc. etc. etc.

The Grinch that stole Muir Stoke.
Please don't stop..... I couldn't get through the day without my multiple daily Muir TR fix. :

Not sure where you heard four, Andy, but I got the "strongly advised" five-foot figure here: 
www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/winter-re...n.htm#CP_JUMP_192344
It sure wouldn't be the first time the Park was putting out conflicting info; try comparing the phone and twitter opening estimates   

So while the Mt. Baker/Snoqualmie NF requires a mere 2 feet of snow at Schrieber's Meadows before the snowmachines can charge on to Mt. Baker, MRNF demands that 4 or 5 feet of snow must be on the ground before skiing can commence?

Ugh, I suppose both minimal requieements are based on the best available $cience eh?

Thanks for the heads up, but I'm still scratching my head.

Although you can learn there are over 800 vascular plants, 159 bird species, and that forest covers 58% of the park; there is no listing of any statutes or laws regarding snow depth and use on the park website. Scouring google was no more informative. Further, there is no information or guidance about datums for establishing that depth, nor is there information on measurement practices.

Anybody know where the real regulations are cataloged?

@ Scotsman: I don' think anyone perceives a problem with people skinning/hiking up established trails to the permanent snow on the snowfield & glaciers to take advantage of the great new snow.  The only problem I perceive are tracks on the way down below Pan Point that cross the meadows, etc. etc.  I have enjoyed Freebird's reports (and some others) every since I stopped my skiing in August   I might very well be going skiing today at Paradise

@ Eastman:  there is very little correspondence between Forest Service and National Park Service regulations and guidelines on almost anything: camping outside campgrounds; hunting; fishing; logging; use of horses, snowmachines, off-road vehicles; ski resorts; etc.  The two have different missions, different organic (originating) acts, and different governing legislation and subsequent rule making; but both are subject to the National Environmental Policy Act and must submit any new plans or changes in plans (including rules and regulations) for public review--and this is the opportunity for people to question whether or not the best available science has been used; the FS has been intensively scrutinized by the public; the NPS much less so.

@ Vogtski:  I had seen the 4-foot thing in press releases in newspapers, etc.  I know I've read the park's General Management Plan and the visitor info, so I might well have misremembered, misunderestimating my memory.

@E_N:  I share your frustration.  At one time, the FS had done a pretty good job of making plans, rules, and research results available to the public, much more haphazard now in PNW with major funding cuts.  I have been extremely frustrated trying to get info out of the NPS, from accurate news on disasters, to management plans (their GM plan is really old), to the results of their past and ongoing research on a variety of subjects.  You can spend a bunch of time on their website and eventually find some stuff but it isn't well done.  I think the "real" regs might be in the GMP, I'll see if I can find it again on the website. 

But as we all know, what is in the GMP is not the practice: e.g., use of snowmobiles and OHVs in the park; gate opening times in the winter, spring access to Sunrise (say, for skiing), etc. They seem to fly by the seats of their pants a lot, without seeking public input.

I did hear from a park employee that they have a new maintenance supervisor who is adamant about serving the public, meeting the public's needs, and putting the public's opportunities over employees' preferences.

Just went to the website and found it improved!  Compendium of 2012 Regulations in Two Clicks   There is a statement of 5 feet of snow required at Paradise before snowplay is allowed--also bans skiing from the snowplay area; there is another stating hiking/pedestrian traffic in the Paradise environs is confined to established trails during summer, fall, and spring meltout.  I would assume skiing is snow play (especially on the way down) and pedestrian traffic (on the way up).  However, there also are posted requlations that conflict with these new regs, such a no fishing at Reflection Lakes.

Visitor service update, from the Twitter this morning: the Longmire gate is projected to open at noon!
NWAC reported 3-4 inches of new at Paradise over night.