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Mission Ridge snowpack damage from snowmobiles
- mikerolfs
- [mikerolfs]
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Microwave
An impressive amount of in-bounds damage this weekend. Here is more:
Windy Ridge:
Maggi:
No Name:
Upper Tumwater:
Upper Skookum:
Outback:
Chute 3:
Chute 5:
and even the sidehill on Mimi:
Here is how they go in:
Even concrete block barricades can't keep a snow machine out.
and here is roughly what I saw for area's hit:
I didn't see this happen, I'm not complaining about the noise. And as far as aesthetics go, I'm pretty impressed with the marks under the cliffs and up Windy. Those are steep hills. Here is what I'm upset about:
I can't cross these tracks safely.
These guys stole my fun runs! How long till I can ski these lines again? Maybe next December. Some years we don't ever get enough snow to ski under the Microwave. This could be a long lasting act of vandalism. Selfish jerks.
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- altasnob
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- Amar Andalkar
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When I first saw your post in the "Recent Posts" list, based on its title "Mission Ridge snowpack damage" I thought it was going to be a post about how 3 days of hot sunny weather had wiped out the already-thin snowpack in that area -- not so. Your thread is also not searchable if someone searches for "snowmobile" in post subjects only (the "Search in subject only" option).
By the way, if you wish you can easily edit your post and its subject line using the "Modify" link when you're logged in.
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- mikerolfs
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Mike, I'm just curious why you failed to mention the word "snowmobile" anywhere in your post.
Thanks Amar. Unintentional. I changed the title.
Is it illegal for snowmobiles to access this area this time of year?
I think it might be illegal any time of year, except for snow machines engaged in running the ski area, which these weren't.
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- aaron_wright
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As far as I know it is illegal to use snowmobiles in the Special Use Permit Area at any time. This used to be stated on the Wenatchee Okanogan NF website, I can't find it now. The only exception is for Mission Ridge employees for work. There are signs along the perimeter of the SUPA that have a graphic of a snowmobile with a circle and slash in red.Is it illegal for snowmobiles to access this area this time of year?
Mike, I am certain I know who the culprits are and they are skiers and yes it is very selfish. There was not a snow mobile track anywhere when I skied out through the Outback to Stemilt Basin on Wednesday. It's too bad you couldn't get any license plate numbers and report to the Sheriff. Are you going to the Naneum State forest meeting on Thursday?
After looking at the pics again, it's almost like they were trying to screw up the snow for any skiers.
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- Amar Andalkar
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Mike, I am certain I know who the culprits are and they are skiers and yes it is very selfish.
...
After looking at the pics again, it's almost like they were trying to screw up the snow for any skiers.
So if the snowmobilers are skiers -- then what is their agenda or motivation or reason for doing this? Feel free to speculate, it's the internet!
Why screw up the snow for skiers (including themselves)? Or are they lift skiers, but not skiers who would tour at Mission Ridge after it closes?
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- aaron_wright
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In years past I've seen this happen and I knew who they were, it's not speculation. I guess it could be people who don't ski and I don't know, but this is a pretty small community and everyone knows each other somehow. I have no idea why someone who snowmobiles and skis would do this, maybe they can't imagine anyone hiking to ski. I skin up through the ski area to access back country areas adjacent to the ski area when the snow line starts to recede.So if the snowmobilers are skiers -- then what is their agenda or motivation or reason for doing this? Feel free to speculate, it's the internet!
Why screw up the snow for skiers (including themselves)? Or are they lift skiers, but not skiers who would tour at Mission Ridge after it closes?
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- avajane
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- hyak.net
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- aaron_wright
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- aaron_wright
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The boundary of the SUPA is not the same as the ski area boundary, it extends beyond the ridgelines and encompasses the entire upper Squilchuck basin. Mission Peak and the ridge to the NW are inside the SUPA almost to the site of the old lookout. These areas are signed no snowmobiles.
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- T. Eastman
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- Pete_H
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- newtrout
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That's some real good public outreach by the sled community...
Yeah, that pretty well sums it up right there. Though kinda funny that the USFS enforcement fella had to go research whether it was legal or not.
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- aaron_wright
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They have a pretty overwhelming job, one guy for the whole district. Like I said he's never been asked that question. I guess snowmobilers thought it was legal and most skiers I know assumed it was too.Yeah, that pretty well sums it up right there. Though kinda funny that the USFS enforcement fella had to go research whether it was legal or not.
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- mikerolfs
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I guess snowmobilers thought it was legal and most skiers I know assumed it was too.
There are two groups of skiers that snowmobile on the mountain after the area closes and I'm pretty sure they both know they aren't supposed to be there. They (mostly) just shuttle skiers and don't do a lot of damage, so no one has pursued them. Tolerable and legal are different though. Previous groups kept their heads down. This last set was in our faces. I'm not sure I agree about these users assuming it was legal. I'd guess the opposite, that most or all of the snowmobile users know or suspect that they are not allowed inside the boundary, and that most ski-hikers suspect the same.
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- gravitymk
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That's some real good public outreach by some selfish individuals that wont help the sled community...
Fixed it for you.
As a skier that also sleds, I find this (the high marking at Mission) appalling and offensive.
I also find judgmental comments that stereotype offensive as well.
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- T. Eastman
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Sorry you are so sensitive...
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- Good2Go
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gravity, judgement is how the game is played. If the "community" can't self-police, the selfish individuals end up representing the community.
Sorry you are so sensitive...
Do you really expect the sled community to prevent this type of deliberate illegal activity by one or two individuals? I suspect the vast majority of sledders (and I'm one) would condemn this behavior. Now, how should we go about preventing it? While you're at it, please let us know how we can prevent drunk driving, as we also own cars.
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- T. Eastman
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Do you really expect the sled community to prevent this type of deliberate illegal activity by one or two individuals? I suspect the vast majority of sledders (and I'm one) would condemn this behavior. Now, how should we go about preventing it? While you're at it, please let us know how we can prevent drunk driving, as we also own cars.
Exactly why a bigger administrative hammer needs to be used. The community can't police itself...
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- mikerolfs
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Exactly why a bigger administrative hammer needs to be used. The community can't police itself...
I'm an advocate of winter forest management. But I don't know if this case is a good example of the need. These bozos were in an illegal area, clearly posted no snowmobiles with concrete barricades blocking access to the parking lot.
Lines on a map probably wouldn't have prevented this.
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- Good2Go
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I would argue that simple enforcement is what is called for in this case. Seems to me that catching the culprits in the act would be pretty easy. A "No Snowmobiles" sign at the roadblock would probably be good too.
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- hyak.net
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- Mofro
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We want to be free to do what we want to do!
We want to be free to ride.
And we want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man.
And we want to get loaded.
And we want to have a good time!
And that’s what we’re gonna do.
We’re gonna have a good time.
We’re gonna have a party!
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- Chuck C
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I would argue that simple enforcement is what is called for in this case. Seems to me that catching the culprits in the act would be pretty easy. A "No Snowmobiles" sign at the roadblock would probably be good too.
Unlikely signs can do much. Personal responsibility and control is the only way to control this. There's no way the FS can really enforce this due to resources, skiers using the area would have to be really lucky to catch the machiners and confront them (see Amar's Mt Baker report from sometime last summer). The maps and information is out there people just have to be willing to live within those restrictions. Look at all the skiers who duck ropes at resorts around the country.
Well, maybe landmines would work.
Hey Marcus. Can you send in some new snow?
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- hyak.net
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Unlikely signs can do much. Personal responsibility and control is the only way to control this. There's no way the FS can really enforce this due to resources, skiers using the area would have to be really lucky to catch the machiners and confront them (see Amar's Mt Baker report from sometime last summer). The maps and information is out there people just have to be willing to live within those restrictions. Look at all the skiers who duck ropes at resorts around the country.
Well, maybe landmines would work.
Hey Marcus. Can you send in some new snow?
Signs can actually do quite a bit. When sledders don't see a 'do not" sign they assume it is ok. It won't stop everyone, but it does help.
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- gravitymk
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gravity, judgement is how the game is played. If the "community" can't self-police, the selfish individuals end up representing the community.
Sorry you are so sensitive...
Sensitive?
Hardly.
Just pointing out the fail in your post T.
The logic you applied in the response above at least shows that you are consistent.
Selfish individuals represent themselves, this is not unique to any user group.
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- Scotsman
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If that was Crystal we would find out who they were and they wouldn't do it again. Little bit of vigilante justice needed IMHO.
This sort of selfish behavior is akin IMHO to you TAYers who insist upon skinning up Crystal , on open runs, on busy days and not giving a flying **** about the paying guests.
Last year 3 TAYers skinned up the middle of Rolling Knowls on a busy Saturday.
A few weeks ago, a couple of TAYers were skinning up under the gondi chair near Upper Bowl and setting a nasty traverse track below skiers dropping in from above...on a busy day. I have no doubt they felt themselves entitled to do so...pricks!
These resort skinning TAYers are a terrible example of public outreach by the TAY community towards resort skiers to paraphrase Toddy.
No snowmobiles in closed ski areas and no goddamn skinning TAYers on runs in open ski areas.
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- T. Eastman
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- andyski
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X2. Don't know/care if they are TAYers or not, but on multiple weekend days this year, skinners at Alpy were 1. Traversing all the way from under Chair 1 to the top of St. Bernard, 2. skinning up the middle of lower Nash. PLEASE GO AWAY.No snowmobiles in closed ski areas and no goddamn skinning TAYers on runs in open ski areas.
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