Idea for Avi Beacon feature

This idea just popped into my head as I was getting ready for a good night sleep. Also, the idea seems so obvious that it must have already been discussed, but since I haven't noticed it I thought it worth posting.<br><br>At the local ski hill I noticed that the paging signals from the typical walkie talkie used these days can be heard (usually annoying!) over very significant distances. The thing about this feature is that the target radio emits the sound at the request of the pager. (Really, any radio set at that frequency sings the tune, but you already know where I am going with this.)<br><br>As an added feature to the sophisticated electronics that are provided on any beacon, the final close up search could be greatly speeded up (for most burials) by the victim's beacon being induced to emit a loud audible signal. Yes the orientation of the beacon on the victim and within the snowpack could certainly attenuate the signal, but I will tell you if I was doing a search and knew I was within 20 or 30 ft. of the vicitim, one quick push of the audible button and if I heard anything, I could kill tens of seconds off the search and way more than that if the methods involved putting together probe poles and the like. <br><br>With the sound emitters today, loud is easy and not energy costly. Used efficiently in a search and the odds of it depleting a battery are nil. A properly chosen frequency would likely penetrate sufficient snow depth and density to be useful for many rescues. In the case where a rescue dog is employed, even that might not be an issue! (Maybe the beacon can release a scent ) Ought to work in anything less than hurricane force winds and as impervious to whiteout or any other conditions as the beacon alone.<br><br>Seems like the engineers may have been so into the sophisticated side of beacon design that they forgot that human stereo hearing and locating are pretty damn good.<br><br>Anyway, seems like an obvious idea and probably has been discussed a bunch of times, but if not then maybe it might save a few lives.<br><br>Alan

I like it. I think it would be very helpful for the fine search/probing range. Put me down for 4 units

I don't think sound would be able to escape from several feet under the snow, after all, travelling sound waves depend on oscillations in free air, or vibrations in resonant material, neither of which are characteristic of snow.<br><br>As far as features go, how about beacons with memory, that could store distance to signal data over time. You could see the actual trajectory that someone took as they were swept away--of course there is triangulation problem, but then maybe two beacons in search mode could cooperate to accomplish this. Might also improve accident investigation and optimization of search techniques.

Actually, even the densest snow has plenty of air trapped, and sound can travel through more than just air.<br><br>Just as infrared light can pass through fog and dust much more unhindered than shorter wavelengths, I am sure that a frequency could be found to maximize distance in typical conditions, or even for a broad range of conditions.<br><br>I believe that more than a few feet is attainable, but then most burials are not much more than that anyway.<br><br>Regarding trajectory info, a friend of mine just told me about a company that is designing a small handheld unit, that could be used for ski areas, such that the location of pary members could always be tracked real time by other members of the party and the ski area. Problem is there would need to be receivers set up in various areas. Not really something you expect in the backcountry.<br><br><br>Alan

What about the deployable bright orange ball idea? Low-tech and possibly a good idea. I remeber reading marketing literature for this thing so it must have been (or still is) on the market. It was a small backpack with a spring loaded fabric ball folded up inside of it. The user had to pull a rip cord to deploy it. The idea (I think) is that this ball will ride atop the chaos and be visible to rescuers so they can find the user at the other end. I've never seen one of these things in the backcountry. Anyone used one of these, comments?

What about the deployable bright orange ball idea?  Low-tech and possibly a good idea.  

<br><br>I have used one of these balls in Europe. I think this is a good option but that has some clear downsides: one of them is weight+volume, but more importantly, if you do get caught in an avalanche are you going to be able to pull the cord? For having skied out of an avalanche myself, I know that my focus was much more to get the hell out of there and having to think about pulling a cord could have been a distraction...<br><br>Here is a site that sells these: www.lawinenball.at/English%20Home.htm <br>If I remember well, the one I used was made by K2, but was never commercialized in the US due to potential lawsuits.<br><br>As for the sound idea, I would be curious to do a test in the snow, but I think sound doesn't travel well at all. Just thinking of how quiet it is in in an igloo or snowcave and almost impossible to hear anything on the outside...but let's do a test <br><br>One feature I would like to see on these is a low price. This is really simple technology: how come I have to pay close to $300 for a transceiver (sure it has to go through some serious security testing) when I can buy a digital camera for the same price that has much more technology in it. Not enough competition, too small of a demand? surely, but the idea that some people do not have beacons because of these indecent prices bugs me...