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Topic: Skiing / riding styles creating hazards? (Read 1457 times)
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rippy
5Member
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Posts: 75
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Here's some food for thought. Skiing and riding styles and the forces exerted into snow packs through skis and boards have become greater. The initiating or trigger event for an avalanche would logically increase as a result and lateral distances between turns is much greater these days. So is the speed and "'G's"we generate. Several recent close calls made me very aware that my older technique of tight fall line and short, symmetrical turns disrupted far less snow and did so with a much lighter "foot" My skis got wider, my turns a lot bigger, and running up the walls on some funnels or landing a jump have resulted in avalanches. These are in-bounds episodes so not some un-patrolled or back country incidents. There have been no formal studies of this but I'd bet a six pack there is validity. Farming a hill Heli-ski style is the answer ! Make tracks not trenches. Ready for my flogging, let it begin. 
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chmnyboy
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Posts: 238
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Just man-up and make those elevens.
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jwplotz
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Posts: 323
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Damn. Now you got me thinking. Screw it, I'm just gonna take the skis off and downclimb the slopes.
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weezer
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Posts: 107
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Wow, I'm so glad its not because I'm so much fatter,
But my skis are fatter, whew
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Koda
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Posts: 221
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interesting concept. Fat ski's sink less. Which is worse, cutting down into the weak layer or floating above it?
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lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
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Scotsman
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Junk science.....if that was true then telemarking would be the worst skiing style for potentially setting off avalanches since they are always falling on their heads therefore= your hypothesis incorrect.
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hankj
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Posts: 197
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not sure if the equipment argument makes sense, but we all intuitively ski/ride "light" sometimes. For instance when I approach a convex roll I definitely lay off a lot.
That said, laying trenches and riding with a power-style is by far the most fun! Much more satisfying than a sprightly, "flicky," finesse riding style. This holds true for all board sports I think. Surfers past the age of puberty who glide and flick are duly razzed for it (and in tougher spots can get sent in for it). To my eye (and feel) skiers/boarders who glide and flick look silly (and dated) compared to the guys (and women) who powerfully blast in and out of the white room.
So regardless of equipment barge when you can, back off when you have to I say. Of course I'm relatively big, and maybe not super-fast twitch, so take the bias toward ape-shot-out-of-a-cannon aesthetics with a grain of snow.
Edit: come to think of it, fatter and shaped skis have made the power-style available to the masses right? Seems so much easier to lean in and carve hard nowadays (wouldn't know personally -- haven't skied since 1983). Before the this innovation most skiers did a lot more of that wanky swivel from the hips and schuss type movement. So maybe OP is right ....
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« Last Edit: 02/23/12, 11:00 AM by hankj »
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lernr
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Posts: 247
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Right, I won't make dynamic cross-under turns or wedeln, which make me feel alive, in control, and put a grin on my face - because someone would think I'm 'dated'... hahaha
Reality check: in the most gnar snow spots, even JJ and similar don't power through - they hop turn. Yeah, Javier straightlined the ice sheet, but that wasn't power either.
I enjoy loading some Gs. I love throwing a method off a powder-covered stump much more. One of my best bc moments was when I came across a broken flagged tree, hit it, and slid the entire length - on the spur of the moment, without scouting, preparation, and sessions.
To answer the original question: I am convinced that big airs should be avoided in avy terrain and conditions because they create hazards.
Cheers
Ivo
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rippy
5Member
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Posts: 75
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Good responses ! So as to clarify a bit, we would admit, wider, floatier skis let us cover a lot more ground and a lot faster. Reasonably, this exposes the rider to more potential pockets & areas that may be suspect. Skis that make deeper snow appealing to a greater number of skiers, long, fast turns crossing larger lateral areas of slope coupled with the bigger vertical you can do in a day is the increased hazard I refer to. Really just in the math. Probably no disagreement on this, if you touch something that's trigger happy, doesn't matter whether you are on a board, telemark, straight sticks or fatties.
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Randy
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I think if a slope isn't stable enough to withstand a "yard sale" type fall without fracturing -- it is cutting too close to the edge for my tastes.
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rippy
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Posts: 75
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That avalanche was surprisingly large and after a number of riders had been chewing the slope up at that. Strong and convincing evidence that shocks and disturbances can occasionally resonate far enough to destabilize something. There's sure a lesson or two in that video. Thanks for linking it.
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Charlie Hagedorn
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All else equal, narrower skis get deeper in the snow than fat skis. If I wanted to put acute stress on a deeper weakness in the snow, I'd consider a hard and deep turn on narrow skis.
Fat skis are tools. The way in which they're used necessarily correlates with the snow's response.
Stability-wise, I'm with Randy.
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flowing alpy
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Posts: 203
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hope my tailriding is making it safer for everyone
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Andrew Carey
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Posts: 1027
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Several things come to mind. 1. Many more bc skiers now come from alpine lift-served backgrounds, skiing a decade or more as children, and being extremely proficient skiers with skill honed on avy controlled slopes. 2. Better gear (skis, boots, bindings) easily allows skiers of varied bc experience to access the bc on skis that allow them to use their alpine techniques. 3. As a result, modal bc skiers are skiing lines that are inherently hazardous (from avy potential to terrain traps and obstructions) to themselves and to people below them. 4. As a consequence, the frequency of avy incidences must increase. In the nearly quarter century I have skied bc at Mt Rainier, I've seen the modal ski gear (and my ski gear) go from XC and skinny tele gear with leather boots to fat, just-as-light-as-the-skinny AT skis and boots and people (including me) skiing lines that were once inconceivable. Elsewhere, for example the North Cascades, Valdez, and Alps, people are skiing bigger lines, faster, with more hucking of cliffs, etc. These exploits are shared and publicized. Naturally, the major incidents of people being injured or killed are also publicized, and, inevitably, with negative responses from the reactionary segment of the public. So, as the old saying goes "you pays your money and you takes your chances" and our biggest challenge will be quelling the reactionaries.
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... want your own private skintrack? :-) better move to the yukon dude ....(B'ham Allen, 2011).
...
Andy Carey, Nisqually Park, 3500 feet below Paradise
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RonL
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Posts: 362
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I just watched that flic again and it seems the sun is a pretty major character in the drama. It maybe as likely that warming effected the bad layer as much as him stomping the landing just then. Perhaps some tracks are from a cooler time of day.
As for gear? It is worth considering that the advances in tech have also made the low angle terrain more fun in deep snow just as much as they have provided access to more advanced and or hazardous terrain.
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LisaQ
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Posts: 16
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Junk science.....if that was true then telemarking would be the worst skiing style for potentially setting off avalanches since they are always falling on their heads therefore= your hypothesis incorrect.
Hilarious.
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