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Topic: BC 9 weak links of the stupid kind (Read 1693 times)
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freeskiguy
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Posts: 171
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Is getting large amounts of air on a ski mountaineering tour an acceptable risk behavior?
When I was ski bumming Mission Ridge in the early eighties, jumping off cliff bands was in vogue and ski films and magazines featured stunt men selling big air. I got caught up in the craze and as Eddie says “might as well jump“.
Jumps at ski areas are acceptable risk because the ski patrol is there to pick up the pieces and cart them off to the hospital. They seem to enjoy saving peoples lives. In the BC this task falls to your ski partners.
I was on a tour once with three tele-markers and me on AT gear. We came to a 12 foot rock band with only one clean line around it and the tele-markers skied first. I looked at their tracks. The line was no longer clean, but the line below the rock band was. So I jumped the rocks, landed forward and performed a perfect shoulder roll and back on my skis and into the next turn without missing a beat. “I’m the greatest’’ was the thought that passed through my head at the moment, Dick says “see me jump, I jump good’’.
When I rejoined the group, the two experienced BC ski travelers(one a former ski patrol who continues to heleguide) were shaking their heads with a “you idiot!”, expression on their faces. “What? I nailed it”, I said. All they said was, “Yea but”. I knew what they meant right away, but I was King Jump Man so their message didn’t sink in just yet. I was willing to take the risk, but were my ski partners? I had selflessly obligated them without even asking.
Here is where it did sink in. Some years later, I was on a tour with a mountaineer, rock climber, ski mountaineer friend of mine. The spring snow was hard and the day was cold with little chance of the snow becoming corn. The step kicking was good and the snow stable so we decided to climb up a short couloirs that required a vertical wall cornice climb. Climbing up is easy.
When it came time to down climb this 12 foot wall onto a 38 degree hard ass slope, I declined. Climbing down is hard.
Jumping is easy. So I jumped, hit my mark(a small, thin section of soft windblown snow) stuck the landing for just a moment in time, spun around backwards (over rotation), tumbled 300 or so vertical feet and stopped only when a random tumble stuck the tails of my skis into the snow. I’m King Rag Doll Man. No injuries. Lucky for me and lucky for my ski partner, who did not have to save my ass.
This happened 18 years ago and I have never jumped in the BC since. Skiing in remote mountains requires us to respect ourselves and our partners enough so that all risk encountered becomes acceptable. Acceptable risk varies depending upon skill levels and individual tolerance, but I think we all know when we are just being plain stupid.
One way to determine if an overly inflated ego is in control of your behavior is to ask your self ; Would I be doing this behavior if I were alone, with no one (or a camera) watching? Remember TGR movies, etc, do not represent realistic Back country situations (unless you travel with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and expertise at hand).
This was a lesson I needed to learn and it didn’t kill me. I continued to jump at ski resorts and jumped my windsurfer in enclosed waters with friends, but never 2 miles off shore in the Straights of Georgia with Gale Force winds a blowing. All these skills and lessons transfer to decision making when it comes to skiing avy terrain.
But that’s just me.
Oh by the way, there is no shame in being caught in an avalanche, in case your wondering.
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 Might_as_well_jump.jpg (120.16 KB, 541x562 - viewed 601 times.)
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« Last Edit: 12/18/11, 04:54 PM by freeskiguy »
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Scotsman
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What if you were on a tour with two other people and there was a difficult section involving a mandatory air and the other two felt comfortable doing it...did it and encouraged you to do it.
Let's say not doing it would make it necessary for your two partners to either leave you to take another longer way down by yourself ( out of view, different aspect) or force them to reclimb the section and ski the more conservative but less attractive line with you.
Would you take the jump or expect them to reclimb and ski the other route?
Just asking because I've been faced with the above scenario which is opposite from your tale.
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garyabrill
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Is getting large amounts of air on a ski mountaineering tour an acceptable risk behavior?
When I rejoined the group, the two experienced BC ski travelers(one a former ski patrol who continues to heleguide) were shaking their heads with a “you idiot!”, expression on their faces. “What? I nailed it”, I said. All they said was, “Yea but”. I knew what they meant right away, but I was King Jump Man so their message didn’t sink in just yet. I was willing to take the risk, but were my ski partners? I had selflessly obligated them without even asking.
I think this paragraph really sums it up nicely for all kinds of outdoor pursuits. Because I sometimes have more experience than my partners, I'm always careful to listen to their concerns at critical decision points. I will usually clearly explain my thinking, with pros and cons, so that a less experienced partner has full participation in the decionmaking process. On many occasions I might have pressed on, but if a partner doesn't feel good about doing that, I'll cede the decionmaking to that partner.
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CookieMonster
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I'd take the mandatory air. But I'd also gladly climb back up... or take the airless way down if someone else felt uncomfortable.
How much air are we talking? This CookieMonster has limits.
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freeskiguy
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Scotsmen:Your example happened last year to me. I declined the jump, but told my partner to go ahead and join the others who were ahead of us. Me lying injured in a pile would not have been a benefit to the group.
I climbed back up the ridge and chose a more sane route(for me). I have no problem leaving a group and going solo, if I feel our objectives no longer are in harmony. In this particular example last year, my partner waited at a point where our two slopes joined up.This was nice of him, and totally unexpected.
I would decline to go on a tour if it involved air and I knew this before hand. Air time is generally, out of control time for me. For every perfect jump I have executed, there was one that resulted in a bad crash. I try not to be out of control in the BC. Bc bindings tend not the have the same release capability as do their alpine counterparts, the skis are also light and weak,light boots offer less support, heavy packs and the forces they add have to be concidered. Everyone have a helmet on?
Oh by the way, reading your prior posts was one of the reasons I decided to start posting here. Your posts stimulate intellectual thought . Also,speaking your mind, and sometimes offering a contrary opinion is often not the popular choice, but totally necessary in a free society and takes courage.
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« Last Edit: 12/20/11, 04:47 PM by freeskiguy »
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Eric Lindahl
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Posts: 127
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I thought I would reinforce this message with my own confession.
Like Freeskiguy I was a hotdogger, early 70s tho. Lots of upsidedown time. A bit later I was heli skiing in Canada and popped a front somersault off a perfect knob into 2 feet of fresh. No big deal. Got to the bottom and the guide was pissed. garyabrill was there. Remember Gary? At the time that episode created a tiny seed of an impression that maybe it wasn't such a good idea. The seed grows with each passing year such that now I am a relatively conservative skier. I think real hard about the back country consequences (heck, even front counrty), before pushing off almost any drop.
As fate would have it my career involves serious risk assesment at emergency scenes. This reinforces my conviction about this thread.
My advice to the young and indestructable is even a fairly tame event can go bad. I am so sad hearing about people, (young dads especially) dying in the mountains, Jamie Pierre apparently being the most recent. From us old guys take this subject to heart. Do a risk/benefit head check before doing something iffy. Your gut feel is often very accurate.
BTW I am with Freeskiguy on his response to Scotsmans scenerio. Maybe I'd jump but it would have to be very well in my comfort zone and no exposure.
Lastly, I had a good laugh at Freeskiguys diagram of his landing pattern. (I assume he wasn't hurt, if not my apologies), In fact I am still chuckling. Humor is greatest when there is an element of truth and reality to it. I've been there - done that.
BE safe.
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« Last Edit: 12/27/11, 05:59 PM by Eric Lindahl »
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Lowell_Skoog
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I don't do "mandatory airs" in the backcountry. With the light backcountry gear that I use, it's just not a good idea. And I think it's dumb mountaineering. If I expect to encounter that sort of obstacle, I'll bring a lightweight rope to rappel. I'm also good at down-climbing with an ice axe and I have no reservation doing that.
If my partners wanted to jump an obstacle that I didn't want to jump, I'd have no problem going around the easy way on my own and meeting them down below. But I'd think twice about doing trips with them after that.
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skykilo
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Plenty of skiers out there have extensive experience jumping and zero experience downclimbing anything remotely technical. So the relative risks of jump vs no-jump would be completely different depending on personal histories.
For me this type of calculation depends on the snow and exposure. It's a good point but it's not black and white.
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