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Backcountry Skiing or Ski Mountaineering?
- Jeff Huber
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- Jeff Huber
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There is no objective of a summit in these events, though there are objectives of reaching checkpoints and finishing in as little time as possible. The events typically do not take place in the backcountry.
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- philfort
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- Jeff Huber
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<br><br>Yeah . . . probably just about everyone who posted in this thread . <br><br>I think the usage of SM may be to an extent geographic specific. Moynier's book describes some pretty crazy stuff in the High Sierra (grab his book and make a road trip Sky!) where you're definitely focused on an objective (ie, an absurdly steep and narrow couloir), yet he rarely uses the term Ski Mountaineering and when he does he's not referring to being focused on an objective but rather the route involving technical climbing and/or a fairly technical descent. <br>So, has anyone here carried their skis above 10,000 ft.?
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- markharf
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<br><br>The usual suspects: Rainier, Baker, Adams, Shasta, Lassen, Hood.....also, virtually anyplace you'd really want to ski in Colorado, and a great many of those in the Sierra.<br><br>Edit to add: I am not claiming any sort of unusual skill or experience here; in fact, I'm trying to point out that getting above 10k is not terribly difficult, here or elsewhere.<br><br>As far as the original question, I usually claim to be a backcountry skier, but when this causes confusion ("Oh, you mean a cross-country skier! Hey, I did that once!) I sometimes try to clarify by calling it ski mountaineering. This is usually a mistake, since then they associate me with the sorts of "extreme" pursuits they've seen in ads for giant SUV's and insipid beer.So, has anyone here carried their skis above 10,000 ft.?
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- Lowell_Skoog
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<br><br>Backcountry skiing: Muscle and gravity powered skiing outside developed ski areas. This is divided into:<br><br>1. Touring: Overland skiing, emphasizing cross country travel over ascents and descents.<br><br>2. Yo-yoing: Skiing up and down hills, emphasizing vertical gain over cross country travel.<br><br>3. Ski mountaineering: Backcountry skiing in terrain that may require mountaineering skills, for example use of an ice axe.<br><br>3a. Peak skiing: Ascending and descending a summit with the goal of skiing as much of the peak as feasible.<br><br>3b. High route skiing: Touring through ski mountaineering terrain, which may include peak skiing.<br><br>3c. Steep skiing: Seeking the limits of skiable terrain, traditionally called extreme skiing.<br><br>
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- Lowell_Skoog
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<br><br>Here's a definition attributed to Sylvain Saudan: "The extreme begins on slopes above 45 degrees at heights where a fall may be fatal." I think that's a good definition of extreme steep skiing.<br><br>A few years ago there was a discussion in rec.skiing.backcountry about the "E word" and how it was distorted by the media. I suggested that we may be focusing too much on steep skiing, and neglecting other dimensions of the sport. In fact, a trip may not need to be steep to be extreme. I wrote a little essay called "Steep and Far" and posted it in 1999. I've reproduced it below.<br><br>Today, given trends in Cascade ski mountaineering, I would add that "far," in the sense I'm referring to, does not mean a long hike. It means a long distance traveled on skis. For what it's worth, here's the essay:<br><br>How about we now argue about what defines steep/extreme skiing? Is is when you fall, you die? ;D
<br>Steep and Far<br><br>Ski mountaineering is an activity defined by two dimensions: steep and far. These days steep skiing gets most of the press because it is dramatic. But "far skiing," covering significant distance across the countryside, is an equally valid dimension of the sport that may in fact be more popular. Thinking about these two aspects separately and then putting them back together may help us think more clearly about the sport.<br><br>Tools<br><br>The optimal tools for a steep descent are obviously different from those for a cross country trip. For steep skiing, skis are primarily edging tools. For far skiing, they are primarily gliding tools. So a steep skier may choose short edged skis, stiff boots and locked heels while a far skier chooses long edgeless skis, soft boots and free heels.<br><br>For really extreme descents, the best tool may not be a pair of skis at all, but a snowboard. In a few years we may regard extremely steep skiing as a curiosity, after deciding that snowboarding works better for that purpose. Yet a snowboard suitable for the steeps is almost useless for cross country travel.<br><br>In the middle ground where most ski mountaineers play we choose tools that are a compromise. A single pair of skis can do most jobs fairly well. The tougher compromise is choosing the right boots. We each make a personal decision according to our taste in steep versus far and our ability to compensate for the shortcomings of our gear through skill.<br><br>Risks<br><br>Barring avalanches, the risk of steep skiing is simple: you may fall. The risks of far skiing take many forms but they all boil down to one thing: exhaustion. You may exhaust your energy, your supplies, your time or your good weather before reaching your goal. It's important to note that far skiing doesn't need to involve long distances or extended times. "Far" is relative to the resources you have available. An ambitious one-day trip with a light pack can be as adventurous as a one-month expedition.<br><br>The much-abused word "extreme" has traditionally been applied to steep skiing. But there's no reason it couldn't be applied to far skiing as well. Extreme means that you have minimal backup and the consequences of failure are severe.<br><br>Aids<br><br>In steep skiing, ropes and belays are aids. In far skiing, support and resupply are aids. That may include huts, caches or air drops. The users of aids argue that they reduce the risks and make the skiing more enjoyable. Critics argue that they diminish the commitment and the level of accomplishment. As long as using aids doesn't affect anyone else, average skiers will do whatever makes their trips more fun and elite skiers will argue about them in order to one-up each other.<br><br>Rewards<br><br>Steep skiers speak of the aesthetics of a dramatic line and the challenge of solving technical problems. Far skiers speak of a feeling of flow across the landscape and a heightened appreciation of the mountain environment. Skeptics complain that extremely steep skiing is applying skis where they don't make sense--like wearing roller skates on El Capitan. Critics of extremely far skiing view it as glorified slogging and dangerously like work.<br><br>An outing that achieves a balance between steep and far can provide both kinds of rewards. But striking such a balance requires compromises. One is unlikely to tackle the extremely steep or extremely far on a single trip, because the tools required for these two extremes are different. Yet for some skiers, trips that require such compromises, that are "kinda steep" and "pretty far," are the most rewarding of all.<br><br>Thinking steep and far may help us predict the sort of exploits that will amaze us in the future. Steep skiing enchainments, ski traverses over Himalayan summits, light and fast crossings of major ranges are all part of a logical progression.<br><br>For the average ski mountaineer, thinking steep and far may help clarify your taste in adventure or highlight a dimension that you've overlooked before. It may help you see old trips in a new light or consider new possibilities. If you're like me, you probably do just one or two trips a year that you consider adventurous. Thinking steep and far may kindle a whole new set of daydreams.<br><br>--Lowell Skoog<br> Seattle<br>
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- Lowell_Skoog
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<br><br>Based on the little I've read and heard about, I stand behind my assertion about snowboards. In Europe people have done amazing things on them. Quite possibly the steepest descents yet done in the Northwest have been done on snowboards (1992 North Face of Mt Hood by Stephen Koch, 1998 Success Glacier Couloir on Mt Rainier by Edgar and Kellogg). <br><br>A single board with a single edge, under control of an expert, is a powerful tool. Snowboarders can also descend toe-in with two real ice tools (instead of wimpy whippets) giving them the ability to scratch their way down really sketchy stuff if they want to. This is well established in Europe.<br><br>I think skiers in this country underestimate the snowboard as a tool for steep descents.<br>It has been experimentally determined that a snowboard is an inferior tool for steep hard descents.
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- Jeff Huber
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- Paul Belitz
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<br>You could very well be right, I'm just commenting on what I've seen between me and my friends; a poor skier vs a poor snowboarder on somewhat firm slightly steep terrain. It seems that the lateral stability missing on a snowboard becomes an issue on harder, steeper snow at low speeds. Of course, what really matters is who's skills are better. <br><br>But what do I know, I've never been on a snowboard.<br><br>Based on the little I've read and heard about, I stand behind my assertion about snowboards. In Europe people have done amazing things on them. Quite possibly the steepest descents yet done in the Northwest have been done on snowboards (1992 North Face of Mt Hood by Stephen Koch, 1998 Success Glacier Couloir on Mt Rainier by Edgar and Kellogg). <br><br>A single board with a single edge, under control of an expert, is a powerful tool. Snowboarders can also descend toe-in with two real ice tools (instead of wimpy whippets) giving them the ability to scratch their way down really sketchy stuff if they want to. This is well established in Europe.<br><br>I think skiers in this country underestimate the snowboard as a tool for steep descents.<br>
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