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Topic: House Bill 5186 (Read 6758 times)
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Plinko
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Posts: 437
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Not entertaining. Disturbing.
His email address is: kastama.jim@leg.wa.gov
Here's what I wrote:
Sen Kastana,
I have read SB 5186 in its entirety, and have some questions.
Why burden the system with such a trivial matter?
This feels like it has Crystal Mountain Management written all over it. As if Ski Patrol with radar speed traps on the hill wasn't enough. Which ski area submitted this proposal?
Is this really a large enough problem that justifies a senate bill?
If an area has a closed sign, and a skier/snowboarder chooses to ignore said sign, they are already violating existing trespassing laws, both private and federal, (as most ski areas in Washington State operate with special use permits from the US Forest Service; thus skiers/snowboarders who violate "closed" signage are in violation of Federal law. Yes this is wrong, and should not be tolerated. However, it's already on the books. This additional Bill contributes nothing but the release of legal liable interests of the ski area operators.
Everything in the first page and a half of this bill are established rules at the ski areas. Violation of said rules results in revocation of ticket/season pass, as well as the enforcement of the aforementioned trespassing laws. Why the need for a Senate Bill to duplicate what is already being effectively done?
(While I agree with it, ) Why the release of legal interest of the ski areas?
Despite being the largest user group, this proposed bill neglects to include snowboarders (or other forms of downhill travel, not limited to sledders, tubers, snow skaters, ski bike operators, snowshoers, etc.).
Earlier in the week, an out-of-control snowboarder ignored a large posted "SLOW" sign and careened into a mother and small child, resulting in broken vertebrae of the mother, among other injuries. What does your bill do to address this all-too-frequent type of accident?
Your proposed bill states, "(4) A person shall be the sole judge of his or her ability...", so why act contrary to that philosophy by attempting to force your bill upon people and eliminate their personal freedoms?
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« Last Edit: 01/22/11, 02:41 AM by Plinko »
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Keith_Henson
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Posts: 511
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Kastama is a volunteer ski patroller at Crystal.
I am very interested to know if you get a response from him.
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Keith A Henson, Puyallup AAC "Let's go! That powder's not going to ski itself." www.KeithHenson.net |
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davidG
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Posts: 723
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It has been my experience with legislators that they do not make this stuff up on their own, but rather respond to their constituents according to the perceived merits of the matter and/or the strength of the lobbying. I have little doubt that Crystal is the lobbyist, the question is why do they want this?
Areas within the permit boundary may sometimes be closed for reasons that pose safety hazards to public and patrol - if a closed area is entry tracked, doesn't patrol look to verify an exit? This can require unnecessary exposure for patrol (don't forget to consider workplace safety laws, L&I and other costs, here). An other candidate leads to the legal aspect of liability. The area operator is not entirely off the hook of responsibility just by blocking and marking access. I imagine having a legal penalty for entering a closed area strengthens the operators' position in liability matters, and would, at least, enjoin the State in any resulting suit in the event of rider (or patrol) injury, or worse. I wouldn't mind hearing a legal expert on this..
Crossing ropes has become a norm. Looks to me like Crystal is saying "if you're going to do that, just don't go looking to our pockets when things go wrong...".
Fair enough.
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"Maybe we should ban hikers from anywhere that there is a potential threat to surface water?" [courtesy Newtrout, 2011]
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arcticcat2
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Posts: 87
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Jackson hole has a open gate policy 100% of the time and it seems to work
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filbo
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Posts: 223
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100 to 1 the politician wouldn't know a left ski boot from the right, but feels qualified to introduce legislation that's lower than his IQ.
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CookieMonster
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Posts: 500
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Earlier in the week, an out-of-control snowboarder ignored a large posted "SLOW" sign and careened into a mother and small child, resulting in broken vertebrae of the mother, among other injuries. What does your bill do to address this all-too-frequent type of accident?
A round of applause for Plinko. Your post is exactly on point.
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Good2Go
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Posts: 120
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What if the person skiing in the "closed area" got there by skiing, not riding the lifts? Still a violation?
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snoqpass
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Posts: 210
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What if the person skiing in the "closed area" got there by skiing, not riding the lifts? Still a violation?
Ski areas that allow uphill traffic still will want you to stay out of closed areas within the permit boundary.
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danengel
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Posts: 78
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Don't hate on snowboarders! You have to be crazy to think that we account for all of the out-of-control people on the mountain!!!
And I'm sure the intent of the bill is to include anyone that pays for a lift ticket. Otherwise, you could just start snowboarding and it would be perfectly legal for you to be out of control or ride in closed areas!!!
Despite being the largest user group, this proposed bill neglects to include snowboarders (or other forms of downhill travel, not limited to sledders, tubers, snow skaters, ski bike operators, snowshoers, etc.).
Earlier in the week, an out-of-control snowboarder ignored a large posted "SLOW" sign and careened into a mother and small child, resulting in broken vertebrae of the mother, among other injuries. What does your bill do to address this all-too-frequent type of accident?
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Plinko
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Posts: 437
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Otherwise, you could just start snowboarding and it would be perfectly legal... Exactly. Read the text of the proposed bill. There's no mention of snowboarders anywhere.
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~Link~
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Posts: 257
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Collusion being what it may, I don't want to speak in a way that undermines the good fabric of our judicial system and our democracy; my problem is not with our government but rather the collusive forces that attempt to confuse and balkanize the masses. Nonetheless, I maintain that a great way to piss off the people and turn them against their "representative" government is to invoke such silly legislature, as well as to install red-light cameras on every other stop light in this great state... (Amongst other things). Petition anyone??? Enough is enough.
We need some snow!! 
-Brian
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blitz
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Posts: 314
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The newspaper article is very SILLY. I doubt a judge would ever enforce a $1000 fine for dropping your ski pole off the chair lift or accidentally skiing across a Jbar path.
If you read the bill it sounds like they are trying to make the "skiers code of conduct" a law.
When the ski area closes an area in-bounds, it is for grooming, avi control, lift ops, a ski race, or other man-made hazzard. They also close areas with extreme hazards like cliffs, waterfalls, and runs with too many hidden dangers. This law is just making it illegal for you to disregard the closures.
If a skier is injured by another skier, the skier who "broke code" can be held accountable in a court of law. Examples of illegal skiing would include skiing out of control, stopping (or skinning uphill) in a blind spot, loosing control of your ski/snowboard because you dont have a leash, throwing your ski pole off the lift.
Thankfully the bill does not require you to take a swim test before you are allowed in the deep end and it is still OK to skin up the left hand side of quicksilver chair. 
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alisa
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gravitymk
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Posts: 406
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Jackson hole has a open gate policy 100% of the time and it seems to work
I would contend that they also do not have 6 lanes of concrete connecting them to a major metropolitan city within a 60 mile radius either. That level of access invites higher than normal level of participants, some educated and equipped, others not so much.
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"
Hunter S. Thompson
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Aaron_Riggs
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Posts: 181
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I would contend that they also do not have 6 lanes of concrete connecting them to a major metropolitan city within a 60 mile radius either. That level of access invites higher than normal level of participants, some educated and equipped, others not so much.
Good point, but then again, several of Jackson's gates are on the edge of blue runs, with thousands of (non BC equipped) tourists from all over the country/world shussing by.
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Scotsman
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Posts: 3174
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A lot of people do not understand the bill as evidenced by everybody ,and I mean every single person in my office coming up saying that I won't be able to backcountry ski anymore from Crystal which is not correct.
The bill as I understand it specifically relates to those that enter areas in a SKI AREA that are CLOSED by patrol.
I agree that its stupid but it doesn't seem to me be a backcountry issue.
However, it says if you are a member of the National Ski Patrol you wil have the right to investigate.........Can volunteers or even people that don't work at a ski area become members of the National Ski Patrol  ??
If so, I'm going to join so I can investigate people!
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Chief Etiquette Officer of TAY and TAY's #1 Poster
Poet Laureate of TAY.
Chairman and Founder of FOTAY( Friends of TAY)
Moderator of the moderators.
"Most Brilliant Move" of the 11/12 ski season
" Knows what he is talking about"
Expert Typist.
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Scotsman
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Posts: 3174
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Scots - Agree, this is only about discouraging people from poaching closed areas. That said, cant wait to see you doing toboggan drill in a candidates class 
Well according to this I can sign up and take some classes and become a National Ski Patrol Investigator or should it be NPS Detective?? http://www.nsp.org/about/joiningnsp.aspx
Will I be allowed to have a tazer? I'd like that...... I could investigate poachers, ski after them... tazer them at the bottom and wait for the Sherrif while using my Voile ski straps to handcuff them.
I like it!
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Chief Etiquette Officer of TAY and TAY's #1 Poster
Poet Laureate of TAY.
Chairman and Founder of FOTAY( Friends of TAY)
Moderator of the moderators.
"Most Brilliant Move" of the 11/12 ski season
" Knows what he is talking about"
Expert Typist.
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gravitymk
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Posts: 406
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Ski pole cattle prod?
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"
Hunter S. Thompson
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Mofro
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Posts: 226
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I'm not willing to join the fraternal order of NSPand the immense burden of power that comes with it...
but for a certain percentage off the top I will volunteer my services as a "boundry hunter" with the promise of not just kicking ass but also taking names.
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not always bad
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Scotsman
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Posts: 3174
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Ski pole cattle prod?
^^^^^^^^^Such stuff dreams are made of.
We could form Vigilante groups and give back to our sport by spending our day on the hill investigating people and demanding "their papers" if we suspect the individual is showing a suspicion of poaching!
Ironic that many of the people we skiers hold as our heros such as Doug Coombs, Shane MC Conkey etc were world class poachers. 
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Chief Etiquette Officer of TAY and TAY's #1 Poster
Poet Laureate of TAY.
Chairman and Founder of FOTAY( Friends of TAY)
Moderator of the moderators.
"Most Brilliant Move" of the 11/12 ski season
" Knows what he is talking about"
Expert Typist.
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gravitymk
Member
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Posts: 406
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I'm not willing to join the fraternal order of NSPand the immense burden of power that comes with it...
but for a certain percentage off the top I will volunteer my services as a "boundry hunter" with the promise of not just kicking ass but also taking names.
I am the law!
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"
Hunter S. Thompson
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Stefan
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Posts: 78
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I am theorizing here. It seems to me this is coming form the ski resorts rescuing people out of bounds.
Why does a ski resort operation have to rescue anyone out of bounds anyway? Since when is it their responsibility?
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snoqpass
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Posts: 210
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I am theorizing here. It seems to me this is coming form the ski resorts rescuing people out of bounds.
Why does a ski resort operation have to rescue anyone out of bounds anyway? Since when is it their responsibility?
The change only applies to closed runs in the permit area it says nothing about out of bounds
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Joedabaker
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Posts: 1753
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I am theorizing here. It seems to me this is coming form the ski resorts rescuing people out of bounds.
Why does a ski resort operation have to rescue anyone out of bounds anyway? Since when is it their responsibility?
Since they are the closest capable entity to reach the effected victims.
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If it's called common sense, why isn't it more common?
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