January 15, 2011, Cash Run from Crystal

Going to play devils advocate here....maybe this will help for those new to the backcountry. What's the point of digging a pit, w/ a result like that, when you're going to ski it anyway? A Q1 shear, 53 cm...that could easily have led to a bad situation. Was the pit really just an after-thought...you were going to ski it regardless? What result (from the pit test) would have been needed to conclude the ski run just wasn't worth it? I know this is a tough/personal question to answer as people have different ideas of risk...

I think I've seen these guys in this video

That video reminds me: I've gotta buy another shovel.

author=Jrayne link=topic=19061.msg80827#msg80827 date=1295150977">
Q1 sheer at 53cm on 3 elbow taps.  The block came out like a file drawer!  We skied the run without incident, but if it had ripped, it would not have been subtle.

Interesting TR. I'd like to know more about the objective of the trip? ...did they ski out to the hwy, or skin back up? Were there other factors that gave them the green light to ski, or a reason they could not turn back? Based on the quote it looks like Jrayne et al understood the risk which makes me curious to their objective?

IMO I would have turned back or found another way out regardless of any influence. I could be mistaken, but from what I read in the TR the pit resulted in a CT3 value, clearly in the red, which leads me to ask the same question as Spin Fast "What result (from the pit test) would have been needed to conclude the ski run just wasn't worth it?"

Three from the elbow, Koda, so CT13.  Still a little light for my taste, for such a quick shear, but everyone makes their own risk assessment.

Jrayne, did you guys do any propagation tests?  What were you observing during the rest of the tour? 

author=curmudgeon link=topic=19061.msg80857#msg80857 date=1295207505">
I think I've seen these guys in this video

Thanks for posting that...made my day.

author=Marcus link=topic=19061.msg80870#msg80870 date=1295217288]
Three from the elbow, Koda, so CT13.

This is correct

the Rough Correlations document is appropriately named.  3 elbow "taps" I initially interpreted at the "wrist + elbow" level in the Rough Correlations chart as opposed to a blow from only the elbow... I would not guess to be a "tap"

Guys in that video= keeping it real= my new heroes. Loved the shovel and skiing
scenes. Thanks for posting that..... absolute gem.

In the interest of full disclosure, this pit was definitely an afterthought.  We actually dug it on the way back up after skiing the run.

Background:  Cash was our 2nd run of the day.  We had dropped another run outside of the area -- and not in the permanently closed area -- after digging a pole pit and assessing the situation.  There was nothing alarming about what we saw or felt.  The snowpack proved to be quite solid.  Solid would be the operative word as we were skiing on a 3-5cm layer of granular snow on a hard, slightly-breakable crust.  It was skiable but just barely.

We did another pole pit on Cash and dropped in one at a time.  On the skin back up, in the interest of getting a better idea of what we had just been skiing on -- and since the skiing pretty much sucked and it would be our last run of the day -- we dug a full pit to the ground.  The results of that test were in my initial post and it was indeed on the 3rd light elbow tap that the file drawer pulled out at 53cm depth.  The shear was on a ice layer that is approximately 1mm thick, like a sheet of glass.  As you would suspect, we proceeded skiing to the top with great caution and a lot of distance between one another after gaining this knowledge.

I normally only lurk here, but the results of this snow pit were alarming enough that I felt they should be posted.  Would we have skied this run if we had dug the pit first?  No.   

I appreciate the honesty and it begs the obvious question: why didn't you perform a test before skiing the slope?

Jrayne - Thanks for posting what you found.

Also, thanks to the guy that posted the vid.  Pretty damn funny, but I think they need to work on the Manitoba accents a bit more.  It was good enough to fool the gal at the trailhead.  Her tone with them was hilarious.  Kinda reminds me of something...

author=curmudgeon link=topic=19061.msg80857#msg80857 date=1295207505">
I think I've seen these guys in this video

Funny video.  I did a couple trips to Bow, or was it Peto, Hut in the 80s.  Back then it was a small Quonset hut.  We suffered from bad trip timing.  Freezing cold and next to no visibility.

The new hut looks nice. 

Thanks for posting more details jrayne.  When you say you did a pole pit, are you talking about something besides just sticking your pole into the snow to feel the layers?

Thanks again for posting your findings and lessons learned.  Glad you didn't get that layer moving when you skied it.

Good example of how stability can differ from slope to slope. I likely wouldn't have even dug the second pit, good on ya for even doing that much.

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the good information.