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Telemetry and freezing rain
- Aaron_Riggs
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01 Dec 2010 09:35 #195164
by Aaron_Riggs
Telemetry and freezing rain was created by Aaron_Riggs
Yesterday at Snoqualmie Pass it was dumping and the snow was nice and fluffy. At 3pm freezing rain started and in 15 minutes there was a crust and the skiing went from great to so-so.
When I look at the telemetry, I don't see anything unusual about 3pm, but 8 hours later the temp went upside down around midnight.
Does anyone know if this is consistent with freezing rain?
When I look at the telemetry, I don't see anything unusual about 3pm, but 8 hours later the temp went upside down around midnight.
Does anyone know if this is consistent with freezing rain?
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- Mofro
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01 Dec 2010 10:10 #195170
by Mofro
Replied by Mofro on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Aaron,
the telem from Snoqualmie doesn't tell the story, but the telem from Alpental does.
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24Hr Total
PST F F F % % Avg Max Dir. Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
5400' 4300' 3120' 3120' 5400' 5530' 5530' 5530' 3120' 3120' 3120' 3120'
12 1 400 26 30 30 99 98 0 0 276 .03 2.3 10 47
12 1 300 27 30 31 99 97 0 0 274 .01 2.27 10 47
12 1 200 28 30 30 99 97 0 0 274 .17 2.26 10 47
12 1 100 28 30 29 98 97 0 0 273 .04 2.09 10 47
12 1 0 28 29 26 98 98 0 0 274 .03 2.05 10 46
11 30 2300 28 29 25 97 98 0 0 274 .05 2.02 10 46
11 30 2200 28 27 25 97 98 0 0 274 .03 1.97 9 48
11 30 2100 29 25 25 96 98 0 0 273 .04 1.94 9 47
11 30 2000 29 23 25 96 99 0 0 273 .09 1.9 9 48
11 30 1900 29 22 24 96 98 0 0 274 .09 1.81 9 48
11 30 1800 28 22 25 96 98 0 0 272 .07 1.72 9 47
11 30 1700 29 22 24 96 98 0 0 274 .05 1.65 9 47
11 30 1600 29 21 24 96 98 0 0 274 .08 1.6 9 48
11 30 1500 29 21 24 95 98 0 0 274 .06 1.52 9 48
11 30 1400 27 19 25 94 97 0 0 274 .14 1.46 9 48
11 30 1300 26 19 24 95 97 0 0 274 .19 1.32 8 48
11 30 1200 25 19 23 96 96 0 0 273 .22 1.13 7 45
11 30 1100 24 18 22 96 96 0 0 273 .13 .91 5 45
11 30 1000 23 18 22 96 95 0 0 273 .21 .78 4 44
11 30 900 22 18 22 96 96 0 0 273 .18 .57 2 43
11 30 800 22 18 21 96 96 0 0 277 .01 .39 0 41
11 30 700 21 18 22 97 95 0 0 274 .1 . 38 9 30
11 30 600 18 18 22 97 94 0 0 274 .14 .28 8 30
11 30 500 15 17 22 97 93 0 0 273 .14 .14 7 29
Warming above 5K became significant such that the moisture falling changed from snow to rain, refreezing as it fell through the surface air trapped at the pass.
Brings back painful memories of going to sleep at night with it nuking and 18F and to wake up to 18" new with 1/2" crust on top, and still be only 20F.
the telem from Snoqualmie doesn't tell the story, but the telem from Alpental does.
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24Hr Total
PST F F F % % Avg Max Dir. Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
5400' 4300' 3120' 3120' 5400' 5530' 5530' 5530' 3120' 3120' 3120' 3120'
12 1 400 26 30 30 99 98 0 0 276 .03 2.3 10 47
12 1 300 27 30 31 99 97 0 0 274 .01 2.27 10 47
12 1 200 28 30 30 99 97 0 0 274 .17 2.26 10 47
12 1 100 28 30 29 98 97 0 0 273 .04 2.09 10 47
12 1 0 28 29 26 98 98 0 0 274 .03 2.05 10 46
11 30 2300 28 29 25 97 98 0 0 274 .05 2.02 10 46
11 30 2200 28 27 25 97 98 0 0 274 .03 1.97 9 48
11 30 2100 29 25 25 96 98 0 0 273 .04 1.94 9 47
11 30 2000 29 23 25 96 99 0 0 273 .09 1.9 9 48
11 30 1900 29 22 24 96 98 0 0 274 .09 1.81 9 48
11 30 1800 28 22 25 96 98 0 0 272 .07 1.72 9 47
11 30 1700 29 22 24 96 98 0 0 274 .05 1.65 9 47
11 30 1600 29 21 24 96 98 0 0 274 .08 1.6 9 48
11 30 1500 29 21 24 95 98 0 0 274 .06 1.52 9 48
11 30 1400 27 19 25 94 97 0 0 274 .14 1.46 9 48
11 30 1300 26 19 24 95 97 0 0 274 .19 1.32 8 48
11 30 1200 25 19 23 96 96 0 0 273 .22 1.13 7 45
11 30 1100 24 18 22 96 96 0 0 273 .13 .91 5 45
11 30 1000 23 18 22 96 95 0 0 273 .21 .78 4 44
11 30 900 22 18 22 96 96 0 0 273 .18 .57 2 43
11 30 800 22 18 21 96 96 0 0 277 .01 .39 0 41
11 30 700 21 18 22 97 95 0 0 274 .1 . 38 9 30
11 30 600 18 18 22 97 94 0 0 274 .14 .28 8 30
11 30 500 15 17 22 97 93 0 0 273 .14 .14 7 29
Warming above 5K became significant such that the moisture falling changed from snow to rain, refreezing as it fell through the surface air trapped at the pass.
Brings back painful memories of going to sleep at night with it nuking and 18F and to wake up to 18" new with 1/2" crust on top, and still be only 20F.
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- fresh
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01 Dec 2010 10:35 #195177
by fresh
Replied by fresh on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Another good hint on the Alpental telemetry is the continued precip with no increase at the 24hr stake. After 3pm another 0.5" of water falls over the next 6 hours and doesn't accumulate as snow, so something must be up.
It's actually also pretty interesting to compare the two sites over the same period. Alpental shows a consistent west wind at 5000'. The site at the pass shows an east-ish wind that flips at 10pm with an immediate increase of 7F as west flow takes over.
It's actually also pretty interesting to compare the two sites over the same period. Alpental shows a consistent west wind at 5000'. The site at the pass shows an east-ish wind that flips at 10pm with an immediate increase of 7F as west flow takes over.
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- Aaron_Riggs
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01 Dec 2010 13:10 - 02 Dec 2010 07:36 #195188
by Aaron_Riggs
Replied by Aaron_Riggs on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Thank you Mofro and fresh for helping me understand it better. I looked over at Stevens and I can see the pattern there too.
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total
PST F F % % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
4900' 4000' 4900' 4000' 4900' 4900' 4900' 4000' 4000' 4000' 4000'
12 1 1200 32 34 100 91 0 0 190 0 .3 0 29
12 1 1100 32 34 100 91 0 0 190 0 .3 0 29
12 1 1000 32 32 100 93 0 1 202 0 .3 0 29
12 1 900 29 31 100 93 1 4 227 0 .3 0 30
12 1 800 28 31 100 93 0 4 249 0 .3 0 30
12 1 700 27 31 100 94 1 6 194 0 .3 0 30
12 1 600 28 31 100 94 2 9 209 0 .3 0 30
12 1 500 28 31 100 94 3 11 214 0 .3 8 30
12 1 400 29 31 100 95 2 12 211 .01 .71 8 30
12 1 300 29 31 100 94 2 12 215 0 .7 8 30
12 1 200 29 32 100 93 3 14 213 .01 .7 7 31
12 1 100 29 32 100 94 4 14 207 0 .69 8 31
12 1 0 29 31 100 94 4 13 209 0 .69 47 30
11 30 2300 30 27 100 96 4 13 213 .02 .69 7 31
11 30 2200 31 24 100 94 3 13 233 .05 .67 8 30
11 30 2100 31 22 100 92 1 8 234 .05 .62 7 30
11 30 2000 31 20 100 92 0 3 239 .02 .57 6 28
11 30 1900 32 19 100 92 0 3 237 .03 .55 6 29
11 30 1800 31 20 100 92 1 5 232 .01 .52 5 29
11 30 1700 27 19 100 91 1 6 25 .01 .51 6 29
11 30 1600 28 20 100 92 1 6 303 .01 .5 6 29
11 30 1500 22 20 97 91 2 9 47 .02 .49 6 29
11 30 1400 18 19 94 91 5 14 50 .02 .47 5 29
11 30 1300 16 19 93 91 6 18 42 .04 .45 5 29
11 30 1200 17 19 93 91 6 17 43 .07 .41 4 29
11 30 1100 17 19 93 91 6 16 44 .05 .34 4 28
11 30 1000 16 19 93 92 6 16 50 .08 .29 4 28
11 30 900 17 18 94 91 7 17 44 .07 .21 3 27
11 30 800 16 19 94 90 6 19 44 .04 .14 2 26
11 30 700 16 19 93 90 6 17 47 .04 .1 1 25
11 30 600 16 19 93 90 6 18 40 .03 .06 0 25
11 30 500 16 19 93 90 6 13 44 .03 .03 4 24
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total
PST F F % % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
4900' 4000' 4900' 4000' 4900' 4900' 4900' 4000' 4000' 4000' 4000'
12 1 1200 32 34 100 91 0 0 190 0 .3 0 29
12 1 1100 32 34 100 91 0 0 190 0 .3 0 29
12 1 1000 32 32 100 93 0 1 202 0 .3 0 29
12 1 900 29 31 100 93 1 4 227 0 .3 0 30
12 1 800 28 31 100 93 0 4 249 0 .3 0 30
12 1 700 27 31 100 94 1 6 194 0 .3 0 30
12 1 600 28 31 100 94 2 9 209 0 .3 0 30
12 1 500 28 31 100 94 3 11 214 0 .3 8 30
12 1 400 29 31 100 95 2 12 211 .01 .71 8 30
12 1 300 29 31 100 94 2 12 215 0 .7 8 30
12 1 200 29 32 100 93 3 14 213 .01 .7 7 31
12 1 100 29 32 100 94 4 14 207 0 .69 8 31
12 1 0 29 31 100 94 4 13 209 0 .69 47 30
11 30 2300 30 27 100 96 4 13 213 .02 .69 7 31
11 30 2200 31 24 100 94 3 13 233 .05 .67 8 30
11 30 2100 31 22 100 92 1 8 234 .05 .62 7 30
11 30 2000 31 20 100 92 0 3 239 .02 .57 6 28
11 30 1900 32 19 100 92 0 3 237 .03 .55 6 29
11 30 1800 31 20 100 92 1 5 232 .01 .52 5 29
11 30 1700 27 19 100 91 1 6 25 .01 .51 6 29
11 30 1600 28 20 100 92 1 6 303 .01 .5 6 29
11 30 1500 22 20 97 91 2 9 47 .02 .49 6 29
11 30 1400 18 19 94 91 5 14 50 .02 .47 5 29
11 30 1300 16 19 93 91 6 18 42 .04 .45 5 29
11 30 1200 17 19 93 91 6 17 43 .07 .41 4 29
11 30 1100 17 19 93 91 6 16 44 .05 .34 4 28
11 30 1000 16 19 93 92 6 16 50 .08 .29 4 28
11 30 900 17 18 94 91 7 17 44 .07 .21 3 27
11 30 800 16 19 94 90 6 19 44 .04 .14 2 26
11 30 700 16 19 93 90 6 17 47 .04 .1 1 25
11 30 600 16 19 93 90 6 18 40 .03 .06 0 25
11 30 500 16 19 93 90 6 13 44 .03 .03 4 24
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- Amar Andalkar
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01 Dec 2010 13:54 #195196
by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Good answers! I was following the telemetry from several sites yesterday too, and trying to guess when it changed to freezing rain at Snoqualmie.
By the way, if you want to post telemetry (or any text file intended for a monospaced font) so that it looks nice with the columns properly aligned, you should enclose the telemetry text in tags. Then it looks like this:
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Press
PST F F F % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow mb
3800' 3700' 3000' 3000' 3800' 3800' 3800' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000'
11 30 1400 20 20 24 91 7 11 110 .13 .13 8 38 1017
11 30 1500 20 21 24 94 8 12 124 .13 .26 8 38 1016
11 30 1600 20 21 23 94 11 16 117 .06 .32 9 38 1016
11 30 1700 21 21 24 95 11 14 118 .04 .36 9 38 1016
vs. not using tt tags:
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Press
PST F F F % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow mb
3800' 3700' 3000' 3000' 3800' 3800' 3800' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000'
11 30 1400 20 20 24 91 7 11 110 .13 .13 8 38 1017
11 30 1500 20 21 24 94 8 12 124 .13 .26 8 38 1016
11 30 1600 20 21 23 94 11 16 117 .06 .32 9 38 1016
11 30 1700 21 21 24 95 11 14 118 .04 .36 9 38 1016
By the way, if you want to post telemetry (or any text file intended for a monospaced font) so that it looks nice with the columns properly aligned, you should enclose the telemetry text in tags. Then it looks like this:
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Press
PST F F F % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow mb
3800' 3700' 3000' 3000' 3800' 3800' 3800' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000'
11 30 1400 20 20 24 91 7 11 110 .13 .13 8 38 1017
11 30 1500 20 21 24 94 8 12 124 .13 .26 8 38 1016
11 30 1600 20 21 23 94 11 16 117 .06 .32 9 38 1016
11 30 1700 21 21 24 95 11 14 118 .04 .36 9 38 1016
vs. not using tt tags:
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Press
PST F F F % Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow mb
3800' 3700' 3000' 3000' 3800' 3800' 3800' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000' 3000'
11 30 1400 20 20 24 91 7 11 110 .13 .13 8 38 1017
11 30 1500 20 21 24 94 8 12 124 .13 .26 8 38 1016
11 30 1600 20 21 23 94 11 16 117 .06 .32 9 38 1016
11 30 1700 21 21 24 95 11 14 118 .04 .36 9 38 1016
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- Mofro
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01 Dec 2010 15:52 #195204
by Mofro
Replied by Mofro on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
DATA IN INCHES, -99 DENOTES MISSING DATA
CURRENT CLIMATE PER CENT LAST THRU 2009 THRU 2009
DEPTH AVERAGE OF NORMAL YEAR MAX/YEAR MIN/YEAR
HURRICANE -99 31 -99 45 70/2006 0/2002
MT BAKER 55 49 112 67 140/1948 1/1939
STEVENS 30 31 97 38 67/1942 0/2002
SNOQUALMIE 37 25 148 34 84/1955 0/2008
STAMPEDE 34 30 113 20 93/1945 0/2008
MISSION 18 17 106 11 36/1983 0/2008
CRYSTAL 31 25 124 27 59/2001 0/2008
PARADISE 81 47 172 59 125/1994 1/2008
WHITE PASS 26 19 137 20 53/1984 0/2008
TIMBERLINE 75 45 167 62 137/1984 0/2002
MEADOWS 61 39 156 45 113/1984 5/2008
THIS TABLE PRODUCED ON THE 1ST AND 15TH BETWEEN 15 NOVEMBER AND 1 MAY.
thanks for the -tip!
CURRENT CLIMATE PER CENT LAST THRU 2009 THRU 2009
DEPTH AVERAGE OF NORMAL YEAR MAX/YEAR MIN/YEAR
HURRICANE -99 31 -99 45 70/2006 0/2002
MT BAKER 55 49 112 67 140/1948 1/1939
STEVENS 30 31 97 38 67/1942 0/2002
SNOQUALMIE 37 25 148 34 84/1955 0/2008
STAMPEDE 34 30 113 20 93/1945 0/2008
MISSION 18 17 106 11 36/1983 0/2008
CRYSTAL 31 25 124 27 59/2001 0/2008
PARADISE 81 47 172 59 125/1994 1/2008
WHITE PASS 26 19 137 20 53/1984 0/2008
TIMBERLINE 75 45 167 62 137/1984 0/2002
MEADOWS 61 39 156 45 113/1984 5/2008
THIS TABLE PRODUCED ON THE 1ST AND 15TH BETWEEN 15 NOVEMBER AND 1 MAY.
thanks for the -tip!
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- Stimbuck
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02 Dec 2010 01:41 #195220
by Stimbuck
Replied by Stimbuck on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Alpental's consistent west wind is likely due to frozen instruments. A good indicator is the lack of any wind speed. Unheated sensors rime and freeze.
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- RonL
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02 Dec 2010 06:11 #195224
by RonL
Replied by RonL on topic Re: Telemetry and freezing rain
Cool, thanks guys. I understand these a bit better now rather that just looking at the new snow totals. Now how much of a crust did it leave and will it support a skier?
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