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Author Topic: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?  (Read 11299 times)
weaver
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Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« on: 09/14/10, 12:53 PM »

So the Fritschis are history and I'll soon be skiing Dynafits - better late than  never... My new ST's came w/ brakes and leashes.   My experience with alpine skis is that when you most need them on a steep slope, brakes are worthless. I prefer a simple, less is more setup - function rules. What works better at keeping a rogue ski close by - brakes, leashes, both?
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Scotsman
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #1 on: 09/14/10, 03:44 PM »

So the Fritschis are history and I'll soon be skiing Dynafits - better late than  never... My new ST's came w/ brakes and leashes.   My experience with alpine skis is that when you most need them on a steep slope, brakes are worthless. I prefer a simple, less is more setup - function rules. What works better at keeping a rogue ski close by - brakes, leashes, both?

Neither, hate dynafit brakes and leashes.
Trying B& D ski leashes this year.
Having breakable leash connection when skiing in avy terrain is a MUST.
See here.
http://www.bndskigear.com/skileash.html
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freightrainer
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #2 on: 09/14/10, 09:37 PM »



When I step out of my Dynafits, the brakes remain neatly stowed on the top of the ski about 90% of the time. Convenient if I am going into climb mode but not very useful if you expect them to stop a runaway ski. I have tried grease and McLube on the moving parts which helps a little (won't deploy 87% of the  time).
I'm going to stick with them since I paid for them and they are on the skis but if I had to do it over, I would stick with safety straps.


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Zap
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #3 on: 09/14/10, 11:02 PM »

Here's a posting I did last month on a Dynafit thread.

"I have used Dynafit leashes for the past 15 years after watching a few friends skis slide away from them while attempting to enter the binding on a steep, firm spring slope.  In late May, I bought a pair of the B & D leashes as mentioned in Lou's thread. I have only used them about 10 times.  I attached a split ring on the rear of my boot for attachment.  It is quite easy to leave the leashes attached to remove and apply your skins. Time will tell."

 
http://www.wildsnow.com/1494/ski-leash-safety-strap/
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gregL
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #4 on: 09/14/10, 11:46 PM »

No brakes for me, either. I normally leave BD Clipwire leashes on my boots, and a short loop of accessory cord through the toepieces, but I only connect them when I feel compelled to by reason of steep and/or icy terrain or presence of crevasses. I carry some thin zip ties as an intermediate connector for high avy danger days.

IMO the Dynafit brakes don't deploy reliably and are relatively heavy compared to the rest of the binding.

That said, I've dropped skis several times resulting in lengthy downclimbs or one-ski descents where a brake MIGHT have helped.

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Joedabaker
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #5 on: 09/15/10, 10:13 AM »

I have noticed in sunwarmed snow that my Dynafit ST bindings have a willingness to rotate back to the ski mode. I don't have a vid cam on this so I don't know what is causing the binders to go back to ski mode as I walk, thus deploying the brakes. ONLY happens when pow turns to glop skinning. I have started to think that the brakes may go and the BD leashes Scotsman scored for me may be the go to retainer. I would set it up like the other posters here with the THIN ziptie.
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ron j
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #6 on: 09/18/10, 09:36 AM »

I'm a Brake man myself.

If, god forbid, I get in an avalanche, I want there to be every chance that my skis leave me and don’t drag me down. I’m not going to trust some supposed, untested “fusible link” to release my skis as they turn in to 6 ft cuisinart blades.  Plus futzing with any kind of strap is an extra bother if I can make the brakes work for me. My exception to that preference is during roped glacier travel where there’s a chance for a crevasse fall, which will likely knock off a ski with a releasable binding. Then I will use straps (in addition to the brakes).

As far as ensuring that the brakes deploy properly, I find that the Dynafit brake design is fine while their manufacturing process sometimes leaves just a bit to be "finished off".
Here's what I mean by that:
In order for the Dynafit brakes to deploy properly the brake rod portions between the two right angle bends need to first move laterally through the slightly oversized hole in the frame, and then rotate the brake rod pivots down below the ski base. The "hang up" usually literally comes from the friction associated with that initial lateral movement of the rod through the frame hole.  The holes in that frame are stamped and that process leaves burrs and causes extra friction. Then add a little ice into the mechanism and the springs don't have enough force to overcome the combined friction of the ice and the grabby edges of the holes.

The solution, of course is to "wear in" the brake rods with the inside surfaces of the frame holes.  With new brakes, before I oil them I mount them up and then cycle through their full range of motion from fully stowed on top of the ski to fully deployed below the ski base about a 100 times or more to “wear in” all the sharp edges and make sure they operate smoothly. On rare occasions I have even used fine valve grinding compound to get the actions silky smooth.  Once smooth and clean I oil all the pivot points with some good silicone base oil. Put some oil on the toe piece cross bar pivot and "spill" some on the ski top sheet in the toe piece opening below where the cross pieces meet to mitigate snow getting packed in that area and preventing the toe pins from full engaging.
Keeping them oiled and cycling them regularly after that is all that I find them needing to continue to everything function properly.

I have noticed in sun warmed snow that my Dynafit ST bindings have a willingness to rotate back to the ski mode. I don't have a vid cam on this so I don't know what is causing the binders to go back to ski mode as I walk, thus deploying the brakes. ONLY happens when pow turns to glop skinning. I have started to think that the brakes may go and the BD leashes Scotsman scored for me may be the go to retainer. I would set it up like the other posters here with the THIN ziptie.

Yes, Joe, I run into this while skinning in the deep heavy snow as well.
But I’m not so sure that you are correct in assuming the brake is the culprit.
I find that it is almost always the left ski and I believe it happens because of the heavy snow’s friction against the back of the heel piece as the ski moves forward causing a counterclockwise rotational force on the heel tower towards ski mode.  I think you will find it happens most in the “no climbing block” mode.  I have my din settings fairly low. It would probably happen less with higher din settings but I would rather put up with it than risk a higher setting.  If it got to be unmanageable I might try to figure out a fairing of some sort to protect the heel piece. When it happens I just pop the toe lever off with my ski pole, then step on the brake pad with my boot and rotate the heel tower back to tour mode and step back into the toe piece.
I would be surprised if the “no brake” contingent don’t run into the same situation in deep heavy skinning conditions unless they have their heel rotation settings cranked up to a very high din setting.


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gorp
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #7 on: 09/26/10, 09:09 AM »

dynafit brakes seldom deploy on their own but i find them very useful for keeping a ski in place when clicking in in steep terrain.  andrew mclean offers a mod here to make your brakes release more reliably

http://straightchuter.com/2010/01/3766/#more-3766
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Chris S
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #8 on: 09/27/10, 10:11 AM »

My personal opinion is that Dynafit brakes added enough to the overall weight that a Marker Duke or Baron is a better option.  The whole point of Dynafits is to save weight.  I'm interested in trying out the new Dynafit Guide leashes - those look a lot like the home-made leashes I already have.
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Chris
Joedabaker
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #9 on: 09/27/10, 10:51 AM »

My personal opinion is that Dynafit brakes added enough to the overall weight that a Marker Duke or Baron is a better option.  The whole point of Dynafits is to save weight.  I'm interested in trying out the new Dynafit Guide leashes - those look a lot like the home-made leashes I already have.

 Huh Huh?
Must restrain need to feel righteous.  Wink
I guess I'll take the bait. Depends on what your gig is...
Not sure what you are comparing.
There are other advantages besides the dramatic weight savings: Duke 5#10oz. vs Dynafit FT 12w/brake 2# 6oz.
The freedom of movement in stride, the ease of transition from ski to walk mode.
Duke you have to take the ski off to transition to use heel lifts.

I would say the for me it's not all about the weight.
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Scotsman
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #10 on: 09/27/10, 11:11 AM »

My personal opinion is that Dynafit brakes added enough to the overall weight that a Marker Duke or Baron is a better option.  The whole point of Dynafits is to save weight.  I'm interested in trying out the new Dynafit Guide leashes - those look a lot like the home-made leashes I already have.
My 2c.
Having both Barons and Dynafits w/ brakes I can tell you that skinning with Barons and skinning with dynafifddlies is a whole different ball game.
If really going BC  touring and not sidecountry the weight difference and stride efficiency is EXTREMELY noticeable and you will wear yourself out pretty damn quick on Barons or Dukes.

Conversely, if all you are using them for is quick sidecountry hits from the lift-- not extended touring, the Baron is a superior resort/sidecountry binding IMVHO.
So as usual it depends on what you're doing
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Stefan
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #11 on: 09/27/10, 03:50 PM »

I have noticed in sunwarmed snow that my Dynafit ST bindings have a willingness to rotate back to the ski mode. I don't have a vid cam on this so I don't know what is causing the binders to go back to ski mode as I walk, thus deploying the brakes. ONLY happens when pow turns to glop skinning. I have started to think that the brakes may go and the BD leashes Scotsman scored for me may be the go to retainer. I would set it up like the other posters here with the THIN ziptie.

I have noticed this too.  It happens a lot to me, but not to others without brakes.  Does anybody have a suggestion?

I am particularily partial to brakes.  Why?  Avalanches.  I want my feet to move just in case.
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natefred
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #12 on: 03/05/17, 01:40 PM »

Neither, hate dynafit brakes and leashes.
Trying B& D ski leashes this year.
Having breakable leash connection when skiing in avy terrain is a MUST.
See here.
http://www.bndskigear.com/skileash.html

Hey Scotsman & Zap, how did those B & D leashes work out?
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SKIER-X
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #13 on: 03/05/17, 02:02 PM »

    Once you loose a ski in deep powder ,  miles from help ,  your answer will be evident without any further discussion !  X 
      Hint : P _ _ _ _ r  C _ _ _ s .    It's a little D.I.Y. solution from last century .  X.   
« Last Edit: 03/05/17, 05:00 PM by SKIER-X » Logged
blackdog102395
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #14 on: 03/05/17, 05:13 PM »

I have no interest in brakes.  I have used the Dynafit Guide leashes, the B&D, and now these:

http://skimo.co/atk-kevlar-leash

The ATKs are the best I have used.
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Andrew Carey
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #15 on: 03/05/17, 06:10 PM »

To each his own.  I have Speed radicals on a couple of skis and regret not having put on STs with brakes; in any case I have come to hate the Speed Radicals for ice build up under the heel and for rotation (every model).  I put a stomp pad on one parid that helps prevent snow build up. 

I have Plum Guide and Yaks w brakes on a couple of skis and like them.  I didn't have any problems with the brakes on my Vertical STs or Radical STs (no longer have them). 

I do like the B&D leashes better than 3-4 other brands I've had.  I like the fact that  I can step out my skis, de-skin, then clip in without removing the leashes; likewise stopping on a steep slope to add crampons (or to take them off later) means an extra bit of safety.

Like mentioned above, w/o leashes but w brakes on firm icy snow on a steep slope, stepping in can be a little challenging; with softer snow I can usually stomp a platform on stick the tails into the snow.

I use the breakable links B&D provides that theoretically will break in an avalanche (haven't been in an avalanche);  I did have one break in a fall when I caught the tip in a buried tree and launched airborne.

I also have a ziptie at the back of my boot to clip into; it is supposed to break too.

Brakes & leashes, like belt and suspenders, are sometimes very useful alone but always useful together. :-)
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filbo
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #16 on: 03/05/17, 07:23 PM »

Yep, like my brakes on my Vertical ST's and also use the B&D leashes when called for as they were primary before I bought the brakes.
The ST's still rock.
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Robie
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #17 on: 03/05/17, 08:23 PM »

Vertical ST and FT for me with brakes and my own empirical release leashes. I'm very content
and of the belief that Dynafit marketing hoisted a whole bunch of bad product on us.  I do have a pair of TLT s on my madshus annums with leashes only and ok with them too. I guess I like the brakes on harder spring snow to set my skis down and not worry about them leaving on their own. (More of a static situation )
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dave095790
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #18 on: 03/06/17, 03:36 AM »

I have the B&D leashes and they are very effective for me.  Like advertised, I can pop a ski, re-skin, and step back in without messing with the leash - so, in theory, you could put the leash on just once per day if you never need to get too far away from you ski. 

The ATK leash looks like it uses a different clip (not much difference) and a shorter length of wound up cord, adding a requirement to de-clip and re-clip to remove a ski to re-skin it. 

I have brakes on my kingpin bindings, but have not yet toured in them.  The brake is convenient at the resort to be able to operate more like an alpine binding WRT gondolas, warming huts, etc.  In the backcountry I will probably also use the leash because of the added security. 

The breakable link is also a nice feature on the B&D setup, and like others, I have broken a link or two with some epic double-boot-ejections; extra links always come with me for that reason. 
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Andrew Carey
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #19 on: 03/06/17, 07:34 AM »

dynafit brakes seldom deploy on their own  ...



Huh  Not my experience at all, mine have never failed to deploy and they have had ample opportunity.  Sounds like the undeployable  brakes maybe too narrow and might need some shaving of the plastic tips.  My only observation about these brakes' function is that they are not nearly as big as alpine brakes and thus can't provide the same stoppiing power.
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natefred
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #20 on: 03/06/17, 10:13 AM »

I bought a pair of the B&D's yesterday, seems better than the cable I'm replacing, and was the only option I could find available locally yesterday except for fabric straps which I tried back in the day and wasn't fond of. I'm on an old set of TLT speeds so brakes aren't an option. I like the zip tie, seems a reasonable way to connect the common cable leash.

Thanks all for your input.
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mosetick
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #21 on: 03/06/17, 11:39 AM »

None of my Dynafit's have brakes. They either were either removed by me manually, or did not ship with brakes in the first place. This is the only way I've ever skied with Dynafit's and the only way I would recommend to others.

Ski leashes are mandatory with no brakes regardless of conditions.

It's easy to find a secure place to put a loop of strong accessory cord through the tongue of your boot. Then you simply loop a tiny, easy break apart zip-tie through the accessory cord. Clip into the zip-ties when you want to have the option of your skis come loose from your feet. Clip into the accessory cord directly when you do not want your skis to have an option to be separated from you. (e.g., while skinning) I carry 5-6 extra zip-ties in my bag at all times in case I need to replace one in the field. The weight of these is substantially less the brakes, so not even worth a weight discussion. My 100 pack of tiny zip-ties cost me a couple bucks at the hardware store.

Also FYI: Even though I have only demoed the Marker KingPins once, it was on a pair with brakes and seemed less than ideal with regard to useless crap, and fidgeting. It's a 5 minute procedure to remove brakes from Kingpins, as I have done on KJB's skis. She seems very happy with her brakeless KingPins with leashes.

To summarize, brakes are for people that want to go slow. Whether that's on the uphill because of the extra weight, or on the downhill because they are spending an hour or more searching for a missing ski, when they could be skiing powder, or just skiing period. And I like to go fast.
« Last Edit: 03/06/17, 11:44 AM by mosetick » Logged
Scotsman
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #22 on: 03/06/17, 09:14 PM »

Just another 2 cents worth but a different take( exactly opposite in fact) and an update on my old post

Since my posts above in this thread over 7 years ago I have skied exclusively on dynafits inbounds and BC.
I tried the B&D leashes and I came to hate them. Gave mine away. I won't bore you with the details but IMHO they are useless and dangerous in avi conditions.

I've got brakes on all 5 pairs of my dynafits and brakes on all 2 pairs of my wife's Kingpins and it only took me 2 minutes per ski to put them on my wife's Kingpins Wink

I too like to go fast... and I have never lost a ski with a brake and I've skied a lot of powder in the last 7 years since my post above. I did lose a ski ( found it eventually)when using the leashes when the link broke and the leashless ski continued on its way without me.

But to each their own as the post above this one indicates.
There are obviously ardent disciples of both systems ( leashes vrs brakes)and you need to experiment with what suits you to find out what religion you decide upon.


« Last Edit: 03/06/17, 09:24 PM by Scotsman » Logged

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natefred
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #23 on: 03/06/17, 11:39 PM »

Not the rave review of the B&D leashes I hoped for, since I already bought them, but oh well. Hopefully it will take a while before I hate them. They sure weigh a lot for a leash.
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Re: Dynafit brakes - do you like 'em?
« Reply #24 on: 03/07/17, 09:31 AM »

I used to hate 'em.  My recent setup has Dynafit FT12s for the last 22 months or so and the brakes on these seem to work.  Personally I can't stand leashes.  Used to go without leashes and brakes but not doing that right now.
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