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Topic: WMC Update 2012 (Read 29615 times)
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Marcus
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Also, I see you modified the date on a 2 year old thread with this years date....lol
I asked WMC to keep the bulk of the updates about this to this thread instead of starting new ones, so folks can see the history of the discussion and to minimize the number of advocacy-type posts here on the forum.
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Charlie Hagedorn
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WMC has renamed this thread. The previous title was "Non-motorized Advocacy: Wenatchee Mtns Coalition", changed to "WMC Update 2012", despite the 669 out of 672 replies (99.6%) that occurred between April and September 2010. It may be an attempt to make the thread look vibrant and new.
In my opinion, WMC uses TAY as a legitimizing megaphone. No other conservation group nor commercial outfit so consistently stirs the pot. If the Sierra Club, or even WWA, were spamming us, I think the moderators might cut them off. TAY is an excellent place to discuss snowmobile/skier interaction; the acceptance of the snowmobilers who chimed in is testament to that. Constructive discussion is rarely interrupted with missives and copied news articles. It's good that TAY is a place where a group like WMC can bring proposals up for discussion. It would be more appropriate, however, if after bringing it up, WMC got out of the way, let the discussion happen, and learned from the result.
Quite a bit of the content in this thread would be very appropriate for a WMC blog. I'd probably visit a couple times a year to see what they were up to. www.wenatcheemountainscoalition.com (and .org, .net, etc.) is available and could be readily linked to a wordpress.com or blogspot.com blog.
In addition, I'd like to raise the point that with statements like the one below, WMC consistently attempts to moderate threads in which WMC posts and generate the appearance of consensus.
Great arguments and thanks. .... Thanks, great discussion!
A hyperbolic example: A wolf asks a herd of sheep, "Can I have you for dinner?" The sheep reply, "BAAAA!?!" The wolf says, "Great discussion!" and eats them.
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WMC
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Posts: 263
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WMC has renamed this thread. The previous title was "Non-motorized Advocacy: Wenatchee Mtns Coalition", changed to "WMC Update 2012", despite the 669 out of 672 replies (99.6%) that occurred between April and September 2010. It may be an attempt to make the thread look vibrant and new. In my opinion, WMC uses TAY as a legitimizing megaphone. No other conservation group nor commercial outfit so consistently stirs the pot. If the Sierra Club, or even WWA, were spamming us, I think the moderators might cut them off. TAY is an excellent place to discuss snowmobile/skier interaction; the acceptance of the snowmobilers who chimed in is testament to that. Constructive discussion is rarely interrupted with missives and copied news articles. It's good that TAY is a place where a group like WMC can bring proposals up for discussion. It would be more appropriate, however, if after bringing it up, WMC got out of the way, let the discussion happen, and learned from the result. Quite a bit of the content in this thread would be very appropriate for a WMC blog. I'd probably visit a couple times a year to see what they were up to. www.wenatcheemountainscoalition.com (and .org, .net, etc.) is available and could be readily linked to a wordpress.com or blogspot.com blog. In addition, I'd like to raise the point that with statements like the one below, WMC consistently attempts to moderate threads in which WMC posts and generate the appearance of consensus. A hyperbolic example: A wolf asks a herd of sheep, "Can I have you for dinner?" The sheep reply, "BAAAA!?!" The wolf says, "Great discussion!" and eats them.
Some folks actually read and understand the WMC postings. If one reads it, perhaps then it would be understood that there is new information or new developments, and yes, sometimes, covering the same ground for those who may ask or make a point. And yes, other than fielding the challenges I try to give strokes to posts that may go along, since their post is important also- and it is daunting to post on this topic other than attacking WMC because of the incessant nagging and hectoring of the discussion. And you changed the title because....attempted discouragement of discussion? Fairly transparent.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/12, 11:45 AM by WMC »
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ruffryder
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A hyperbolic example: A wolf asks a herd of sheep, "Can I have you for dinner?" The sheep reply, "BAAAA!?!" The wolf says, "Great discussion!" and eats them.
LMAO!!! AWESOME!!! simply AWESOME!!!
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Charlie Hagedorn
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Posts: 1132
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Some folks actually read and understand the WMC postings.
I do.
I'm neutral on the WMC agenda, but the WMC approach gets my goat. I changed the title back to its previous name for consistency's sake; essentially none of this thread has taken place in 2012. I'd been wordsmithing my post for an hour or two when Marcus posted, so I hit "Post".
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Jim Oker
Moderator
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In my opinion, WMC uses TAY as a legitimizing megaphone. No other conservation group nor commercial outfit so consistently stirs the pot. If the Sierra Club, or even WWA, were spamming us, I think the moderators might cut them off. TAY is an excellent place to discuss snowmobile/skier interaction; the acceptance of the snowmobilers who chimed in is testament to that. Constructive discussion is rarely interrupted with missives and copied news articles. It's good that TAY is a place where a group like WMC can bring proposals up for discussion. It would be more appropriate, however, if after bringing it up, WMC got out of the way, let the discussion happen, and learned from the result.
Good thoughts, Charlie. This is indeed an important topic, quite relevant to the community. Despite thinking that WMC has some fair points, I find myself bristling at the totality of the package of his (her?) postings. While there have been bits of constructive discussion here and there on these duplicate threads, WMC appears to have nudged most of the community, even many who may be inclined to agree with some of WMC's points, to antipathy toward WMC's tone and approach. I do not think this is helpful to WMC's cause.
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WMC
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Posts: 263
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Good thoughts, Charlie. This is indeed an important topic, quite relevant to the community. Despite thinking that WMC has some fair points, I find myself bristling at the totality of the package of his (her?) postings. While there have been bits of constructive discussion here and there on these duplicate threads, WMC appears to have nudged most of the community, even many who may be inclined to agree with some of WMC's points, to antipathy toward WMC's tone and approach. I do not think this is helpful to WMC's cause.
It is 'his', if you bothered to read the articles posted you could see all sort of photos of me. The areas of WMC Proposal 1 were proposed for Wilderness by OWNF in the Draft Forest Plan Revision. Some have attributed that in part to the WMC effort, OWNF Officials have stated that the PWA to some degree is to create a boundary that is enforceable to reduce the Wilderness incursions. As well, through our networking with a long lost of groups and Organizations, who have supported these advocacy issues the OWNF Draft Forest Plan Revision received over 24,000 comments asking for management of snowmobile riding. In the recent article, an OWNF official was attributed " snowmobiling must be addressed", said Mary Bean, Forest Service recreation manager."
Jim, you have had antipathy from the start, there is plenty here from the start. That is quite strange- I recall my only TR posting that included discussion of using my snowmobile, and the lack of responses. In those days, it was not ok to even talk about snowmobiles on TAY, now the owner has praised the two heckling snomo guys here. Fascinating. That seems to lack logic or perhaps I (we) just do not get it. Or is it a east of the crest/ west of the crest? I cannot say, I just know I and a few are working very hard to make change within the existing laws that will benefit others much more than ourselves. We ask no one for money, we just try to make the case, provide the information, and ask citizens to weigh in.
These attitudes make me grin, it reminds me of liberals and Democrats on news shows advising what the Republicans should do. It is quite strange that some say they cannot support this because of my approach- you are not voting for me or endorsing me. Stand up and ask your public land managers to manage the winter Forest!
Jim if you or anyone does not agree, you can say so and make comments. What I post here is honest discussion. Tell me Jim, do you 'bristle' at some of the responding comments on TAY, some have been quite foul? TAY has some different themes or ideas. I am here posting only because I believe some folks want to read the information.
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Marcus
Administrator
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Posts: 2236
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Enough of this.
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Marcus
Administrator
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Posts: 2236
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To be clear, I have no problem with this topic being discussed here and I think it's an appropriate place for it.
Allowing an anonymous (at the time) entity to post advocacy for a particular goal was an experiment almost two years ago when this thread started. It has had plenty of good conversation from all sides of the spectrum, but I think the experiment has run its course.
If folks want to continue to discuss this, please feel free to make a new post about it. I apologize to anyone whose contributions are sealed up here, but I think it's best to start fresh if anyone wants to continue talking about the backcountry-user land management issue.
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