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Topic: Telemark pole technique (Read 1210 times)
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John Morrow
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Posts: 499
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Any you instructors out there have a way to describe poling on tele skis. Seems it is morphing into an elbows out kind of thing. What about the wrists? Where are the hands in relation to the body? I have a bad habit of double poling when I am out of balance but only on my weak turn. I know motly I just have to get better but if there is a "trick" to keep in mind...
Thanks,
John
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Joedabaker
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Posts: 1748
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In a perfect world the poles would only be needed to push from A to B.
But in my world they are used frequently and depending on how the snow conditions are and how fast I am traveling can look anywhere from a metronome to auditioning for a whitewater time trial.
In the past the high hands poling was due to the fact that we did not have adjustable poles and by nature, touring poles were on the long side. So to get the baskets out of the snow while going down hill the poles had to be raised high to the head or above.
Not sure of why anyone would ever lean to an elbows out approach, unless they were auditioning for a muscle man competition.
For telemark, even alpine I recommend shortening the poles so you keep your body forward. And it forces me to stab downhill ahead of me so by the time the pole makes contact my weight is on the pole as I move by.
For me the best balance is when the hands and wrist are aligned, wrists slightly outward, for the most motion. If wrists are to straight or open it limits motion.
Keep your hands in front of you!
Was a tip yelled off the chairlift at Stevens Pass over 35 years ago and it forever changed how I skied.
I like to keep the pole handles in front of me below my chest and above my hips, in the core area. Keep it natural looking. Many who are trying to work on their poles and hands look like they have a couple carpenter squares taped to their arms. Just stay loose, and if an arm wanders behind me I just bring it back to center, keeping my shoulder from tilting back up hill.
I entertain the idea that I am a boxer working over my opponent in the body area, So as my right leg moves forward, my left hand (non-poling hand) is still in front of my body (not reaching) as my right hand slightly extends to pole plant. That keeps the shoulders square to the hill so I don't get thrown off balance. Visualize a pendulum swing moving forward and the hand and wrist is the axis.
So this keeps the least amount of motion, which helps the body maintain its balance.
This leads me to the pole used as an outrigger. Which seems to be my worst habit. Dragging a pole for balance. (Because I am going to fast for my balance) That is another reason to shorten the poles.
Hey sometimes it is just mandatory to use to stay upright. But I try not to make it a habit on every turn to keep me from getting tendinitis in my forearm.
The second picture of the skier poling to the side. He could shorten his poles on the downhill, that would improve his swing weight so he can pole forward, not to the side.
One secret bad skiing habit of mine is that I open up my right arm by swinging my right hand out while I pass the pole. Still working on getting rid of that old Wayne Wong move every once in a while. 
Good luck, happy turns!
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« Last Edit: 02/03/12, 10:58 AM by Joedabaker »
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If it's called common sense, why isn't it more common?
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peteyboy
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Posts: 187
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While the beauty of telemarking includes that there is room for many artful variations in technique, many people ski reacting to things, not being proactive in how they ski. It all starts with the hands, and the poles should just be an extension of the body - like the eyes, leading ("pointing") the way in the flow of turns. I find this to be more important in tele than it is in alpine - where it's already crucial. The hands (poles) and eyes lead, the core anchors in the same flow, and the legs do their thing. Without the hands and eyes leading the way, it's all lost (and left "reacting" instead). The only value to the double pole plant is to throw the hands (and therefore the body) back in the lead after getting chucked by something unexpected. The outrigger hand or pole or any "uphill" movement leaves the skier skiing from behind the flow of gravity, fighting it, not harnessing it. The steeper the terrain, the more proactive the pointing with the pole plant into the flow of the fall line is necessary. If you struggle with being comfortable tele skiing in terrain that challenges you, get your hands out in front, quiet upper body square to the fall line, and be proactive with your pole plants - you'll go to the next level.
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weezer
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Posts: 108
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What about pointing with your little finger,like holding a cup of tea
Sometimes I'll stop to look at my little fingers that really don't want to hang on to the poles
talk about tralala tele skiing
I notice I double pole when I'm a little behind my turns to try and catch up
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lrudholm
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Posts: 241
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I can't describe any specific pole technique. But you should ski a bunch of moguls. They make great reference points for poles and help balance skills.
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Leyland
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Lowell_Skoog
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Posts: 1618
WWW
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This video seems pretty good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD2DcPYQDLE
It shows a skier on alpine gear doing parallel turns, but I think it's valid for telemark as well. The key point is to keep the hands where you can see them. I don't see any big problems in the pictures you posted above, FWIW.
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The_Snow_Troll
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Posts: 118
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On the downhill poles are only timing devices to set up your turns. They should not be crutches or out-riggers (although we all fall back on that at times!).
Three things that have helped me (some above):
1. Shorten your poles to encourage you to attack down the hill.
2. Your hands should be out in front of you as if you're carrying a tray of food (or beer glasses).
3. Frog Hunting (this is for a left turn) As you're setting up your turn pretend that you're trying to stab a frog with tip of the left pole (tip extended out). Your right pole grip is like the flashlight shining on the frog (top of handle 'shining' the light on the frog).
Steve
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LisaQ
5Member
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Posts: 16
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Seems it is morphing into an elbows out kind of thing.
I've been harassed by my Level III Ski Instructor brother for years about my variations in pole planting. I too have a funny left wrist swing on occasion, also the rudder effect on my right hand when needed, like I'm guiding a raft to save my life, technique. More recently with the advent of more powerful equipment like NTN's and skis built for speeds of glory I find I have invented yet another technique for myself. Which is the arms/hands widely set and in front to increase my center of mass and keep my upper body moving down the fall line at all times. Feels a wee bit like flying.
The number one thing I have needed to do every time I ski is adjust my poles to match the terrain/snow level to a shortened position. I only lengthen my poles when in uphill back country mode and usually only one side as I switch side to side on the ascent for the downhill arm.
As a former ski instructor myself (13 seasons in CO) the actual mechanics of the wrist are lift the pinky finger area prior to the pole plant and point the index finger area on the plant. Follow through by keeping your hands and arms in front of you!
Hope this is helpful.
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Randy
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Posts: 837
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General advise: keep hands where you can see them.
Some drills to try, do it first on non-challenging terrain and then progress. A good time for drills is when conditions are poor for backcountry skiing, lift skiing on groomed snow is a good time to try these. Night skiing at the Summit is a when I do most of my drills, lift tickets are less expensive then as well.
o Ski without poles, work on keeping hands quiet and in front of you.
o Ski with poles held crosswise in front of you, with elbows tucked in against your sides. Work on keeping poles always across the fall line,
o Ski while balancing poles on top of your wrists. To keep the poles from falling off, you need to keep you upper body quiet and shoulders facing the fall-line -- even as your hips and feet pivot below.
o Ski while listening to music with a strong beat. Time pole plants to music beats.
o Ski with top boot buckles undone and lean lock in tour mode. With and without poles -- to help improve balance.
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JKordel
5Member
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Posts: 61
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Kind of depends on the turn.
For fall-line short radius keep both hands out front. The pole plant leads the turn and is a short staccato tap. Don't linger. Heads, hands and body right down the fall-line and lots of angulation at the hips. Moguls and couloirs.
For longer radius turns your body leads the way across the fall line and the skis follow - much less winding up at the hips. Lead the turn with a deliberate plant of the down hill arm which becomes the fulcrum of the turn. Lead the ski exchange with the head, uphill arm and body with legs just a heartbeat behind. Some like to envision punching their fist through the air but you want to do it with grace.
Keep everything smooth and surfy. For long radius turns follow the contours and hips of the slope planting the pole just shy of convex rollers - let the slope's contours help you unweight and flow down the hill.
The double pole plant is most likely a carryover from the days of 3-pins and double-camber. Double poling provided much needed stability during tenuous lead changes. With today's boots the extra stability is not needed but old habits are hard to break. The problem w/ double poling is that you'll sometimes catch your uphill ski and it tends to set your uphill shoulder just back a bit putting you in the backseat.
I don't like shorter poles but many do. It seems like the guys w/ the lower stance like them and more alpine for upright stance.
It really helps to see yourself on video - humbling for sure, but the fastest way to improve.
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aaron_wright
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Posts: 356
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Kind of depends on the turn.
For fall-line short radius keep both hands out front. The pole plant leads the turn and is a short staccato tap. Don't linger. Heads, hands and body right down the fall-line and lots of angulation at the hips. Moguls and couloirs.
For longer radius turns your body leads the way across the fall line and the skis follow - much less winding up at the hips. Lead the turn with a deliberate plant of the down hill arm which becomes the fulcrum of the turn. Lead the ski exchange with the head, uphill arm and body with legs just a heartbeat behind. Some like to envision punching their fist through the air but you want to do it with grace.
Keep everything smooth and surfy. For long radius turns follow the contours and hips of the slope planting the pole just shy of convex rollers - let the slope's contours help you unweight and flow down the hill.
The double pole plant is most likely a carryover from the days of 3-pins and double-camber. Double poling provided much needed stability during tenuous lead changes. With today's boots the extra stability is not needed but old habits are hard to break. The problem w/ double poling is that you'll sometimes catch your uphill ski and it tends to set your uphill shoulder just back a bit putting you in the backseat.
I don't like shorter poles but many do. It seems like the guys w/ the lower stance like them and more alpine for upright stance.
It really helps to see yourself on video - humbling for sure, but the fastest way to improve.
In other words, just like alpine skiers.
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Joedabaker
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Posts: 1748
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In other words, just like alpine skiers.
Pretty much...
Gotta say of all the great skiers I have had the privilege to ski with in the past or present JKordell is top shelf, as one who can really practice what he preaches on the hill. Hands down best technique at all three disciplines Tele, Alpine, snowboard IMO.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/12, 08:53 AM by Joedabaker »
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If it's called common sense, why isn't it more common?
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JKordel
5Member
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Posts: 61
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In other words, just like alpine skiers.
... except better....
Wow - Thanks for the kind words Joe! One of these days I'll have to drag myself away from Alpental and ski with you - it's been a long time....
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