Home > Forum > Early season stability assessment

Early season stability assessment

  • 1yen
  • [1yen]
  • 1yen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
10 Nov 2009 17:20 #188897 by 1yen
I was just curious about evaluating stability etc. during early season snow. Of course, I am asking because am thinking of doing a solo ski tomorrow; something I have never done in the past (have always been with buddies).

I guess I am not sure how I should mentally approach it. I can't imagine a pit will tell me anything accept the color of the dirt under the snow.

Any tips suggestions warnings encouragements would be much appreciated!

Got to love the pre-thanksgiving snow!!!

thanks in advance

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Charlie Hagedorn
  • [trumpetsailor]
  • Charlie Hagedorn's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
More
10 Nov 2009 17:30 #188898 by Charlie Hagedorn
Replied by Charlie Hagedorn on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
New forecasts are out (Thanks NWAC!):
www.nwac.us/forecast/avalanche_washington/current/

Avalanches happen year-round. Barely buried trees and rocks are grabby.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Marcus
  • [Marcus]
  • Marcus's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
More
10 Nov 2009 17:32 #188899 by Marcus
Replied by Marcus on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
A pit will still give you info about how reactive the snow is within the pack, even if it's not consolidated.  It's particularly important to have an idea of what the ground surface is like.  Smooth polished rock vs. heather or short shrubs, etc...

Approach it with extra caution, especially since you're unsure how to eval the early season pack.  Bonus points for digging to ground :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2009 17:50 #188900 by Pinch
Replied by Pinch on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
Sometimes in early season, underlying vegetation is not fully compacted and the weight of a person can cause that settlement, producing a release. Unrelated in terms of propagation, I have pulled an unfortunate person out of an early season slide in Table Mtn's Blueberry Chutes (the ones that reportedly slid this weekend). He slid a few hundred feet and shattered his patella on a rock. Treat early season like mid season. Pick safe ups and conservative downs when you are alone.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1yen
  • [1yen]
  • 1yen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
10 Nov 2009 18:15 #188902 by 1yen
Replied by 1yen on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
thanks for the quick and helpful replies!

It all makes sense and I will keep my awareness level high tomorrow...most likely heading up to stevens early AM. Can't wait!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • PNWBrit
  • [PNWBrit]
  • PNWBrit's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
More
10 Nov 2009 18:59 #188903 by PNWBrit
Replied by PNWBrit on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
Terrain selection, terrain selection terrain selection. Always number one consideration.

Consequences, consequneces, consequencess. second. Adjusted accordingly for solo travel.

Both those are completetly under your control.

Everything else you're making a hopefully somewhat educated guess at.

Befiore you even bother digging a pit exactly what are you looking to do with the answer that it might, or might not give you? Is it making it o.k. to go or do you turn around and tip toe out. Why are you diggin a pit anyway given points one and two.

Why are you going on your own? Cause you have to? That's the day you can? Or you just want to? Do you want to go too much to make a smart decsion?

What you're doing and why is where you should look first?

Ain't ever easy. At least not for me.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1yen
  • [1yen]
  • 1yen's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New Member
  • New Member
More
10 Nov 2009 19:11 #188905 by 1yen
Replied by 1yen on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
PNWBrit,

Agreed...this is not an easy choice for me. All those questions you ask are things I have been thinking about all day! (instead of work...)

I am choosing steven's because I know the terrain there very well, and already have in mind safe travel routes and relatively low angle runs.

The whats and whys...very important, and thanks for the reminder! I have answers for all of them!

It never hurts to have TERRAIN and CONSEQUENCE pounded into my head too much...

thanks again!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • climberdave
  • [climberdave]
  • climberdave's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
More
10 Nov 2009 19:23 #188906 by climberdave
Replied by climberdave on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
My two cents, but since we've had some howling winds recently watch out for wind loaded slopes, wind slab and terrain traps!! Plus trees/rocks can actually promote avys by allowing a fracture to propagate between weak points (a few threads and a death last season attest to this fact).

Be safe and keep your avy eyes open!!

"Terrain selection, terrain selection terrain selection. Always number one consideration.

Consequences, consequences, consequences. second. Adjusted accordingly for solo travel."

Wise words :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Don Heath
  • [Rusty Knees]
  • Don Heath's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
More
10 Nov 2009 22:16 #188907 by Don Heath
Replied by Don Heath on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
There's a few folks going up different areas tomorrow - might not be too late to connect.
This link is to the "partners wanted" section.

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=14398.0

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • CookieMonster
  • [CookieMonster]
  • CookieMonster's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
More
12 Nov 2009 16:20 #188923 by CookieMonster
Replied by CookieMonster on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
>>Terrain selection, terrain selection terrain selection. Always number one consideration.
>>Consequences, consequneces, consequencess. second. Adjusted accordingly for solo travel.

Caveat: Good points, but by themselves, and especially without observations, these rules will eventually lead to errors.

>>Befiore you even bother digging a pit exactly what are you looking to do with the answer that it might, or might not give you?
>>Is it making it o.k. to go or do you turn around and tip toe out. Why are you diggin a pit anyway given points one and two.

Good points, another caveat.

One person may not see the usefulness of test profiles and instability test, but that does not mean that these observations are unhelpful for everyone. When performed correctly, test profiles and instability tests can provide fairly direct and very direct information ( Class II or Class I ) about the state of instability and definitely can help align your perception of instability with reality.

In any case, observations of all types ( snowpits, weather, terrain, avalanche bulletin ) all actively contribute to your perception of instability. So, in other words, you're going to end up believing something about instability and the bulletin is as likely to contribute to your perception as a test profile or the results of an instability test. It is possible to misinterpret the bulletin and develop a faulty perception of instability ( such as when you apply the information in the bulletin to the slope scale. )

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
13 Nov 2009 08:41 #188930 by JimH
Replied by JimH on topic Re: Early season stability assessment
Stability note from the Baker BC - noted some 2-4mm surface facets on shadowy N facing slopes (where the best snow was, as you might guess). The facets were pretty wide spread on all the colder NW through NE aspects, even some that got a little sun. We thought that was worth noting.

We only saw point releases during the day due to solar effects on trees, rocks, etc.. We did see a few day old 1-2ft crowns on steeper lee side NE facing slopes.

Be safe!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.