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Topic: Glacier travel instruction recommendations (Read 1148 times)
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buell
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I am going to be taking a glacier travel course soon. It can be on Rainier or Hood. Hood is closer, but I expect Rainier will provide better instruction and terrain.
Does anyone have any thoughts on excellent instructors or companies who are teaching this summer / fall?
Thanks, Buell
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Scotsman
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Mountaineer's Glacier travel course is the gold standard and run by some of the regular posters on this board and many on this board are graduates. The course runs in the spring though, I think.
They will reply soon I'm sure.
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" All men dream:but not equally.Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in day to find that it was vanity:but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible"... T.E.Lawrence
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PNWBrit
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Proguiding's summer mountaineering camps on Baker.
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Marcus
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The Washington Alpine Club has a climbing course as well -- it's in the fall.
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ron j
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Mountaineer's Glacier travel course is the gold standard and run by some of the regular posters on this board and many on this board are graduates. The course runs in the spring though, I think.
They will reply soon I'm sure.
Scotty's right.
Information on the Mountie's training for glacier travel & crevasse rescue specifically targeting skiers and boarders is HERE.
IF Hood is closer for you the Mazamas do a lot of training on Hood and the guide service at Timberline is probably good for quality crevasse rescue training.
There's a lot of good classes on crevasse rescue systems for climber types.
Unfortunately, the only one that I know of which is specifically for snow sliders is the one put on by the Mountaineers.
There's nothing quite like going into a crevasse with all your ski or boarding gear on, to drive home the importance of having predesigned systems for attaching all your sliding gear out of your way on the climbing rope so that you can prusik up the rope and/or prepare to be hauled over the lip.
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"When I stop having fun I'm turnin' around"
"Remember, breaking trail and allowing old people to have fresh tracks is standard backcountry protocol." - Zap
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super yeti
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Proguiding's summer mountaineering camps on Baker.
+1
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CookieMonster
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Ron J makes an excellent point about learning additional techniques when you're wearing skis.
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PNWBrit
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Unfortunately, the only one that I know of which is specifically for snow sliders is the one put on by the Mountaineers.
Ron J makes an excellent point about learning additional techniques when you're wearing skis.
PG runs a number of slider specific glacial courses in "season". The OP's mention of soon led me to point to his Baker climbers camp.
Actually it looks like their option's might perhaps be available sooner than anything run by the mountys?
[controversial]plus you'd know who was instructing you and their professional qualifications/reputation[/controversial] 
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ron j
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I didn't realize Pro Guiding did any crevasse rescue training for skiers. Of course it is perfectly logical that they would.
I have never been on a trip with Martin but I have skied with at least one of his guides and have skied with scores of folks that have skied with and trained under him. All, without exception have raved about what a great guide and teacher he is.
Thus, I believe that any training for which Martin Volken is responsible should be well worth participating in.
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"When I stop having fun I'm turnin' around"
"Remember, breaking trail and allowing old people to have fresh tracks is standard backcountry protocol." - Zap
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Jonathan_S.
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Another option is just to find another potential fellow student, then hire an AMGA/UIAGM-certified ski mountain guide for the day to work on . . . exactly what you want to work on.
List here:
http://hireaguide.amga.com/skimountaineeringguide
For example, the rate at Pro Guiding for an AMGA guide for the day is only $175 per person if you have just one other person, so it's not all that expensive (given what you're getting).
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My Dynafits are powered by Gu.
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PNWBrit
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For example, the rate at Pro Guiding for an AMGA guide for the day is only $175 per person if you have just one other person, so it's not all that expensive (given what you're getting).
Not only AMGA but also likely a UIAGM guide, guide instructor/examiner and at the moment maybe even the president of the AMGA.
A bargain.
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« Last Edit: 07/21/09, 03:14 PM by PNWBrit »
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Jonathan_S.
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That would be $190 per day -- but still, it's of course a great deal, given the expertise of the instruction, plus being able to focus on exactly what you want to focus on. (As opposed to dealing with climbers who don't ski, ugh!)
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My Dynafits are powered by Gu.
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CookieMonster
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PNWBrit, I think your comments about reputation are right on the money - quality of instruction is really important and you know who/what you're getting from an outfit like ProGuiding. The prices, as others have noted, are a bargain.
I would add the following, which relates to quantity of instruction ( or: how much are you going to learn? ).
While definitely an excellent skill to learn, crevasse rescue/self-rescue is a bit like learning how to perform a beacon search: a necessity but it's only the second half of the problem.
Traveling through glaciated ice can be as technical as moving on vertical rock ( though the consequences might be different ). When I think about the realistic skill requirements for glacier travel, it seems as if the list is pretty long:
Belay skills
Anchor skills
Rope skills
Route finding
Fall dynamics
-Do you need to belay someone who is traveling over a questionable bridge in order to be assured that you can even arrest a fall in the first place?
-What about crossing that overhung bergschrund?
-Route-finding?
-Rapelling. Extremely dangerous but a very important skill if you need to go down into a hole. Must be done just right.
If you're going to take a class, make sure the class covers these topics as well, so you learn enough to make the class worthwhile. Basic crevasse rescue skills aren't enough if you want to avoid a crevasse fall, or rescue a badly injured partner.
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buell
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Great info for me. Loving this thread. It will take me a couple of days to research the info. It looks like the Mountaineer's course is over 5 or six weekends in Seattle. That is a lot of driving from Eugene, but I want great instruction. Baker is further and I haven't had a chance to look into Proguiding. A 3 or 4 day private lesson with a AMGA/UIAGM-certified ski mountain guide might be a great thing for me to minimize drive time.
Anything else is greatly appriciated!
Buell
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Robie
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I'm a Mountaineer member. Not a climber just a skier who happens to own a ice axe,crampons ,harness and rope. You know the "whole catastrophe".
Pro guide is a great outfit and i would love to take one of thier courses. Ive also taken the the Mountaineers Glacier travel and Crevasse Rescue class. in fact went back as a assistant instructor twice. 4 days in class learning knots ,rigging haul systems ,belaying and prussicking. All with skis or boards .Then a two day field trip which includes a live crevasse. This course is dynamic in that instructers, and students keep coming back and formulating and trying new techniques. In crevasse aviodance (thanks Cookie !) and rescue there is too much to learn in one day. It's also similar to avy skills in that once learned it is not enough. Practice and more pratice is required .
hence the beauty of the Mountaineers format.
No competion here just enjoying seeing our local talent bumped up a notch by all.
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"I bought my rope at Walmart ,my gloves at costco but paid dearly for my dynafits"
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buell
5Member
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Posts: 31
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Another option is just to find another potential fellow student, then hire an AMGA/UIAGM-certified ski mountain guide for the day to work on . . . exactly what you want to work on. List here: http://hireaguide.amga.com/skimountaineeringguideFor example, the rate at Pro Guiding for an AMGA guide for the day is only $175 per person if you have just one other person, so it's not all that expensive (given what you're getting).
Finally got a second to look through some of this. I will contact Pro Guiding tomorrow. If I went the private AMGA instruction route, how would I choose who to contact from this list? Obviously I could email some of them in WA and the one in OR, but do any names stand out (I have seen Martin's name on this thread).
Thanks, Buell
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PNWBrit
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Posts: 273
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Volken - obviously
Other PG guides
Marg Wheeler - currently President of the AMGA, just a riot, so much fun to climb with her.
Ben Haskell - excellent instructor. really, really, nice guy. (is [or was] SFD Lieutenant/Captain ?)
I don't think Scott Schell guides anymore?
I've heard good things about Miles Smart from a couple of folks.
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CookieMonster
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For Ron J -
I certainly didn't mean to imply that instructors who work for The Mountaineers are in any way inferior, nor dubious, nor controversial ( I haven't used those terms anywhere in this thread ).
In any discussion of competing products - the OP is going to pay someone for a course - I think it's fair to discuss the relative merits ( and weaknesses ) of each. One of the merits of hiring an outfit like ProGuiding is, of course, the professional instructors. Maybe The Mountaineers uses AMGA-certified guides in some of its courses; if this is the case, I haven't heard about it.
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ron j
Moderator
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For Ron J -
I certainly didn't mean to imply that instructors who work for The Mountaineers are in any way inferior, nor dubious, nor controversial ( I haven't used those terms anywhere in this thread ).
In any discussion of competing products - the OP is going to pay someone for a course - I think it's fair to discuss the relative merits ( and weaknesses ) of each. One of the merits of hiring an outfit like ProGuiding is, of course, the professional instructors. Maybe The Mountaineers uses AMGA-certified guides in some of its courses; if this is the case, I haven't heard about it.
CM - I agree with everything you said.
Absolutely no offense taken.
Nonetheless, I thank you for your sensitivity regarding the matter.
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"When I stop having fun I'm turnin' around"
"Remember, breaking trail and allowing old people to have fresh tracks is standard backcountry protocol." - Zap
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