Overnight Bivy Solutions?

I brought this point up in a discussion of a trip report by responding to a question of Charles and thought that it might be a good topic here.<br><br>How do people solve the problem of the overnight bivy?  Summer/Spring vs. Winter?  The solution I am dealing with (as described below) was what I felt I needed for Summer/Spring trips, though in these relatively mild clims even during late Feb. onward, it likely would suffice.  I am still struggling with the desirability of overnights in Nov., Dec. and Jan. when 15 hours of the day are spent dealing with the night, but....  I always felt that I brought enough gear to survive well on an unplanned night out, but for planned nights out, I didn't want the hassle of lots of weight or an oversuffed pack negating the experience.<br><br>I know, I know another person really increases the efficiency on this matter, but sometimes that is not always possible.<br><br>I just aquired a nice light down jacket and a down "half" bag with no zipper that is very light and seems quite packable.  I had always carried a tarp and it is my hope that some of the frustration of hoofing it all day for a couple of thousand ft. of vertical (like Coleman Pinnacle and Rainbow glacier) would vastly be improved by staying the night and getting an early start for a full second day.  Don't get me wrong, I really do like the day trips but.....    I carry it all on in a Bomb Pack.  Things like food and water is an interesting problem.  Personally, I go for the skiing and wilderness experience and I can survive on meals of jerky, chocolate, and dried fruit.  Also, I am certain I have enough "fuel" reserves of the hydrocarbon type, that I am sure that I won't starve in a day....<br><br>Other ideas?<br><br>Alan

Here's what works for me in snow (although this is usually hiking or climbing use).<br><br>Solution #1: Bivy near the car and don't carry the stuff.<br><br>Solution #2: light gear and less gear in a light pack.<br><br>for sleeping:<br>A snow trench if feasible, with snow block lid if cold/windy. You can cut blocks, after compacting snow and letting it set up, using knotted binders twine for a saw. 1 oz. <br>Bivy sack with no "features". 16 oz.<br>Piece of visqueen sheet for groundcloth. 8 oz. <br>2 aluminum snow stakes. Have also functioned as eating utensil when forgot spoon.<br>(or, if two people, a 4 lb. Walrus 4-season tent is an option)<br>Summer weight Marmot Nightowl Polargard sleeping bag. 36 oz.<br>Foam 3/4 pad. 12 oz.<br>Down jacket 28 oz (someday I'll get Primaloft at 1/2 wt & space)<br>Fleece pants 17 oz.<br>The bag is rated at +30-40 deg F, but is warm enough at +15 deg with the bivy, jacket, pants, and toasty in a dry snow trench.<br>Total is 4.5 to 5.5 lbs over what I would carry if not planning on sleeping out. <br><br>for cooking:<br>isobutane stove with piezo starter: 3 oz + 12 oz fuel<br>Sierra cup for cooking + eating: 6 oz<br>plastic spoon<br>if need to melt snow for water: alum pot 12 oz.<br>an extra water bottle to have plenty ready in AM. <br><br>Lighter pack, boots, parka, windpants all make a difference too.<br>For dream light gear, see ProMountain Sports. <br> <br>

Thanks for the reply.<br><br>It has been a while since I have bought outdoor gear, I just got the down jacket and half bag.<br><br>I have used a 4lb. megamid for years but don't take it with me unless I am travelling with another person. It is hoped that the tarp and the fabric on the clothing/bag will be sufficient cover.<br><br>I was at Feathered Friends in Dec. and was astonished at some of the new lightweight fabrics now being used in the tents. While not considered perfectly water proof, they are extremely water resistant and given the proper tent architecture, give great protection without the bulk of coated nylon.<br><br>My biggest challenge now is to generate water. I like the new stoves but may settle on water treatments.<br><br>Alan<br><br>Considering the dearth of replies I guess I can assume that most of the people who converse on this site stick primarily to day trips. Seems to parallel the nature of the trip reports. Its nice to be in an area where day trips are so rewarding.

Hi Alan, I did something similar to you. I got a synthetic expedition parka that goes down to my knees and a huge poncho that fits over that- goes down to my shins. This is for day trips and an unexpected bivvy. For overnighters, I have a two man tarp that weighs less than a pound, and I now have a four man tipi that I'm testing for the designer. Its out of the new breathable nylon (DWR coated) and weighs 1 lb, 10 oz. It has mesh wing guyouts, snow skirt and goes up with my Ramer pushbutton pole. Also has a snorkel at the top. Had it up in 45 mph gusts with no problem. I suspect the DWR will need to be recharged once a season. I tested some scale models and could not get the inside wet with a hose. Coated nylon, while completely waterproof, instantly caused a huge amount of condensation inside, and it never dried out over a three day period. In the full size tipi, pitched in the backyard on snow during a thaw, the snow inside completely sublimated in one afternoon with no condensation. I hope to have pics of more testing soon.

I overnight on ski trips quite a bit. What makes it easy for me is light gear. Some of what I use:<br><br>REI Sub Kilo Down 20 degree, 2+ lbs<br>Two pads, one roll up foam, one inflatable 2.5 lbs.<br>BD Megalite, 1.75 lbs or<br>BD Lighthouse, 3+ lbs (just used on two trips so far)<br>MSR Pocket Rocket stove, fuel canister and titanium pot, 0.5 lbs<br>Insulating pants, an insulating top, and a balaclava, a few pounds.<br><br>The rest is basically food and ski gear. My winter overnight pack is below 30 lbs with everything (including 2 Liters of water) and fits in my Arc Teryx Borea (3200 ci?). Jim Nelson's website www.promountainsports.com is a great gear and information source for how to go light.

Dave,<br><br>I am not surprised by the condensation issue. I get it real bad in my megamid, especially since is has no ventillation options except to raise the floorless walls high enough to let in some air. Even still, with heat rising, I am sure it would still wet up. A little water on the nylon really begins to add weight after that first night.<br><br>Zenom,<br><br>Sounds like a light setup. I like the idea of two pads. My back sure could use the break. Actually since one near the body does the insulation, a lightweight but thick airmatress could make for a decent night sleep. Something I generally don't count on.<br><br>Alan