Home > Trip Reports > December 27, 2008, Crystal Northway

December 27, 2008, Crystal Northway

12/27/08
WA Cascades West Slopes South (Mt Rainier)
30256
45
Posted by Lisa on 12/29/08 8:14am
A friend of mine was skiing the lifts on Saturday and found great conditions until he and his friend went for a last run on the Northway chair just before they shut down.  They found no others getting on and were excited for a last run to themselves. 
Half way up the long chair it stopped.  There were no others on the lift and they wondered why it stopped.  As time ticked by they grew colder as the wet snow kept falling.  After 45 minutes and teeth chattering they contemplated jumping but were too high for a safe landing.  They wondered if the lift ops were as stoned as they appeared and maybe had forgotten they were still on the lift.

After an hour of shivering they saw a lone snowboarder coming down and yelled at him to tell the lift operators that they were still on the chair.  Shortly after the snowboarder left word got out and the chair began running.  When they got off they went into the ski patrol hut to thaw out and were quite upset that the lifts had been shut down, neglecting to realize that they were still on the chair. 

They went down to guest services to explain the ordeal and asked for a voucher to ski another day, having paid the $60 and lost an hour of skiing having been forgotten on the chair.   Initially they were told by one woman that she was sorry for their experience but there was nothing she could do.  Then another woman interjected that if they would leave a name and phone number she would see what she could do. 

I wonder what would have happened had that lone snowboarder not passed by. 
Wow, I can't believe Guest Relations didn't bend over backwards and give them both unlimited season passes for the negligence they endured.

It's a good thing they were able to unload the chair that afternoon.  Crystal likely would have charged their estate for a lift ticket if they were to be found on the chair the next day!

author=Lisa link=topic=11700.msg48592#msg48592 date=1230596056]
Initially they were told by one woman that she was sorry for their experience but there was nothing she could do. 


Doesn't surprise me.  :(  I'm glad they made it off though!

I worked as a lift op a couple of years ago. Normal procedure when I was working was that a ski patrol would be the last one on the lift. A call would come down from your fellow upper liftie to say that the patroler was off and all was clear. IE: NO ONE LEFT ON LIFT. Another check was to put an orange cone on a chair and let it cycle at least once before shutting down.

That could have been a tragic accident. The lifties should be talked too about safety on shut down and those skiiers should get a lift ticket voucher.

It sounds like the liftie spaced out. Or smoked out!!

This incident should be reported to the Forest Service since they issue the operating permit for the area!

Not all lifties are pot smoking, red-eyed, Phish lovin' snowboarders who are too stuck in the clouds to know what's going on.  Some of them actually work quite well under the influence of THC...

However, I've been hearing stories of the lifties becoming more neglegent as the years pass.  In fact, this year, a lift op was sent home because they left the top of chair 8 completely unattended.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Crystal, chair 8 is Discovery, the bunny hill.  ???

I would suggest some "negotiation tactics" such as, "This COULD be some really bad publicity for your mountain, and we wouldn't want that, hmmm?"

Maybe it's too late for that. ;)

Ummmm Accidents happen  ???
if you would have jumped off the chair ski patrol could have clipped your ticket
Im glad everything worked out.

I would think a well worded letter from a lawyer could achieve something besides the run-around.
Crystal mountain has proven time and again, they have the best terrain and the worst management of any ski hill in north america (or at least the 50 or so I have skied in the last 3 years), yet another example.

Sounds like no fun! Sorry your friends had such a poor experience. Hopefully they can work something out with guest services.

Now, full disclosure... I work at Crystal. There are actually a number of checks and balances in place (similar to those described by Bandit) to keep this sort of thing from happening. I wasn't working on Saturday but I talked to a patroller who got to enjoy the long, cold stoppage along with your friends. I'm pretty sure patrol and lift ops were aware of the stoppage and were working to fix it.

That being said, Lisa, drop me a PM if you think I am wrong. Stopping a lift with customers on board would be a big huge goof and folks in charge would be very interested and concerned if such a thing ever happened...

I don't think he would go as far as to get a lawyer.  Yes, he was disappointed but is waiting to see if indeed they get back to him and offer him a lift ticket indemnifying him.
He is not a TAY guy, so I took the liberty to share his experience.

author=Kyle Miller link=topic=11700.msg48608#msg48608 date=1230609399]
Ummmm Accidents happen  ???


Yes, accidents happen and if indeed this was a mistaken error, I hope it is a long time before one such as this happens again. 

author=fresh link=topic=11700.msg48616#msg48616 date=1230613129]
Now, full disclosure... I work at Crystal. There are actually a number of checks and balances in place (similar to those described by Bandit) to keep this sort of thing from happening. I wasn't working on Saturday but I talked to a patroller who got to enjoy the long, cold stoppage along with your friends. I'm pretty sure patrol and lift ops were aware of the stoppage and were working to fix it.


Good to know Fresh!  I will let him know that he was not alone as he thought.  Thank you for sharing that information. 

I know Crystal has been having a lot of issues with the power going out, but it sounds like that might not have been the issue. 

I love TAY and am pretty stoked on Crystal's new ski patrol blog, but I decided to add a Google Group to the mix for any other Crystal warriors like myself. 

http://groups.google.com/group/unofficial-crystal



I recall an incident in Upstate New York maybe 5+ years ago where a couple skiers spent the night on the chair.  I believe there was a substantial settlement -- even though the skiers evaded a "closed" sign to ride the chair.

Sounds like a lift stoppage and not a lift shut down to me, unless I am missing something here. It is always no fun being stuck in any situation and time passes by when you are having fun and doesn't when you are not, but stopages happen for many reasons loss of power, etc.
Was there a liftie at the bottom when you got on the chair?
I am glad you are OK.

author=jdclimber link=topic=11700.msg48609#msg48609 date=1230609579]I would think a well worded letter from a lawyer could achieve something besides the run-around.

Crystal mountain has proven time and again, they have the best terrain and the worst management of any ski hill in north america (or at least the 50 or so I have skied in the last 3 years), yet another example.


Not this tired old tirade again.

In case you haven't noticed in the past week/10 days two of the biggest ski areas in North America have suffered a gondola collapse and had a lift top restuarant  near destroyed by an avalanche. Perhaps your worst run award needs to go to a new home?

And a lawyer? Really? The OP is pure second hand speculation.


Yes, Crystal still takes the award in my book. Every time I go there I have been treated rudely by staff, I could go on, but yet, Crystal still wins. The lifts may fall and the bar may not be safe, but at least I will not get whacked with a bamboo pole by some liftie like at Crystal on Saturday.
An yes, notice I did not say sue 'em, I said well worded letter. It is amazing how much more polite and attentive people get when their superiority is called into question.
What is your OP? What is an OP anyhow?

author=jdclimber link=topic=11700.msg48641#msg48641 date=1230665616]
...but at least I will not get whacked with a bamboo pole by some liftie like at Crystal on Saturday.


Are you expecting something different if you hit the resort on a weekend day ??? ???

author=jdclimber link=topic=11700.msg48641#msg48641 date=1230665616]
Yes, Crystal still takes the award in my book. Every time I go there I have been treated rudely by staff, I could go on, but yet, Crystal still wins. The lifts may fall and the bar may not be safe, but at least I will not get whacked with a bamboo pole by some liftie like at Crystal on Saturday.
An yes, notice I did not say sue 'em, I said well worded letter. It is amazing how much more polite and attentive people get when their superiority is called into question.
What is your OP? What is an OP anyhow?


OP = Original Post.

Given a bamboo pole and the opportunity I might do the same, but at the very least I'd call into question your superiority and probably treat you and your attornery rather rudely.



Just to clear the air....  Your friends were stuck on the Northway lift because of a power outage.  After 28 minutes we (yes I work for the mountain) were able to fire up the diesel engine, start the lift and get everyone off safely.  I'm sure 28 minutes seemed like a lot longer when you're sitting in the cold.  I am sorry this happened to your friends and it's unfortunate but, I'm not sure what, if anything, Guest Services will do since your friends already skied a full day and this mishap (thanks to PSE) was resolved in less than half-an-hour.

 

author=SnowGirl link=topic=11700.msg48651#msg48651 date=1230671576]
I'm sure 28 minutes seemed like a lot longer when you're sitting in the cold. 


Thanks Snowgirl for clearing the air....I suspect Sebastian felt the time was longer when speaking of the incident because as you said the cold can make time seem to pass so much slower. 

I have been stuck on many a lift over 25 years of lift skiing and it happens everywhere.  Sebastians assumptions that he was alone by the coincidence of yelling to a lone snowboarder and the lift starting some time after may have made him think he and Brian were left. 

In hindsight, it may have been best for me to let him figure out what happened on his own, but I felt chiming up on TAY would help resolve his discontent and such it has.

Thanks to those working for the mountain and speaking up to clear this up!
8)

Lisa - I think its great you raised the issue on TAY.  Even the "clerified" experience is unacceptable.


author=SnowGirl link=topic=11700.msg48651#msg48651 date=1230671576]
After 28 minutes we (yes I work for the mountain) were able to fire up the diesel engine... I'm not sure what, if anything, Guest Services will do since your friends already skied a full day and this mishap (thanks to PSE)


Snowgirl - your comment represents the common perspective I see with the mountain management.  Crystal should take responsibility and accountability for poor service.  Why does it take you 28 mins to start up the diesel engine?

You are responsible to your guests, every company works with contractors(PSE) that impact a customer's experience.  What could Guest Services do...they could have given them a voucher for a free ticket...not because they didnt get to ski the whole day, but because they had a bad experience.  When I got stuck on a chair at Whistler they gave me a ticket and food voucher.  These are the sort of things that drive customer loyalty.

I've said it before...I love Crystal and I am not trying to slam you guys.  If you make some small changes like described above you'll see more visits and more importantly it will improve skier preception of the mountain and the people who work there.   

I think they were upset at feeling like they were left on the lift and realizing now that they were not,( I think the CSP sweeps that area with 3-4 patrollers with two of them riding up the hill all after closing gates, so that the chance of leaving someone on the chair is just about nill) 28 min on a chair in the cold is a long time, but it happens and not that often at crystal, over the last 13 years of skiing this hill I can count on one occasion I was stuck on a chair for more then 10 min. However I understand that if you have blister, it's hurts you more then it hurts me in my boots. You got off the lift and that is that. move this dialogue to some other place to make space for people skinning up stuff and skiing down powder.

author=SnowGirl link=topic=11700.msg48651#msg48651 date=1230671576]
Just to clear the air....  Your friends were stuck on the Northway lift because of a power outage.  After 28 minutes we (yes I work for the mountain) were able to fire up the diesel engine, start the lift and get everyone off safely.  I'm sure 28 minutes seemed like a lot longer when you're sitting in the cold.  I am sorry this happened to your friends and it's unfortunate but, I'm not sure what, if anything, Guest Services will do since your friends already skied a full day and this mishap (thanks to PSE) was resolved in less than half-an-hour.

 


Ok. Case closed. Down lift. Power out Diesal engines are hard to start in the cold. Since it's a new lift, Crystal probably called a mechanic to zoom up on a snowmobile to make sure the expensive engine was operated correctly.

No harm, no foul as I see it.

author=everestbill link=topic=11700.msg48666#msg48666 date=1230683674]
move this dialogue to some other place to make space for people skinning up stuff and skiing down powder.


Well spoken!! Let's get on with a Happy New Year and some powder skiing!!

Snowgirl,  Thanks for the clarification. You are a voice of reason. Case closed. No lawyers, no voucher. Power outages and down lifts are something skiiers need to tolerate. Just like wind and rain and anything else that can upset a good ski day.

That is all. Hit the Powder Please!!

I got stuck on the Liberator at Mission last year for 50 minutes during a big storm with winds to 60 mph, snowing with near whiteout conditions at 15 degrees F. I got a free voucher for a mocha at the Hampton Lodge. I still bought my pass this year and am not complaining. I knew it was risky to keep riding the Lib that day but the snow was too good to stop. I'm just glad I didn't have to evac in those conditions.

I am out the door at 4 AM and will be at CM EARLY and will get some of those turns we all dream about all year long, This is the Storm we have been dancing about, It's snorkel time and be safe and ski with a bud, I have a private stash that no one knows about and is always there for 3 to 4 laps.
turn well friends.
skin it, climb it, ski it.

Private Stash?

I've been there! It's not private any more!

I did not see a soul in my tracks today, so it's still my stash and let me say OMG. if you were not there, too bad. 1st chair on six and my stash all day long, I felt like I was in sinners all day long. Glad you found your stash, I will wait for the next storm to hit, Sat is looking like it might nuke again and it will be stash time.
Turn well and ski with a bud, it's getting kind of spooky out there.

Stevens had to close at noon today (1-1-09) at the request of the DOT.   Even so, they passed out vouchers to ticket holders to use another day :D. Disappointing to hear the Crystal was not as accommodating.  Not the first time Stevens has put the customer first (and hopefully, not the last).  Oh, the skiing was very nice too.  Few, if any, made it up from the Westside.Thanks!

After a string of nasty threads resulting from a lack of snow, are we getting nasty arguments resulting from high avy conditions?

I don't know if something to this effect was posted above but it's dangeroud for ski resorts to admit fault due to potential liability.

Say Crystal says, "Okay. Here's two lift tickets to offset your lost time and suffering on the stuck chair."

Now one of the guys stuck on the lift starts noticing his nose is a little numb. It sounds lame but people have sued and won large settlements over all sorts of stupid stuff.

There's probably a better way to handle it than how it went down but they do walk a fine line.

author=SnowGirl link=topic=11700.msg48651#msg48651 date=1230671576]
Just to clear the air....  Your friends were stuck on the Northway lift because of a power outage.  After 28 minutes we (yes I work for the mountain) were able to fire up the diesel engine, start the lift and get everyone off safely.  I'm sure 28 minutes seemed like a lot longer when you're sitting in the cold.  I am sorry this happened to your friends and it's unfortunate but, I'm not sure what, if anything, Guest Services will do since your friends already skied a full day and this mishap (thanks to PSE) was resolved in less than half-an-hour.

 


Yes, still unacceptable.  Good management and good customer service should have instantly and without question given out at least a free pass if not much much more.  Doesn't matter whether there was a power outage, or whether the lift workers could have done better.  This is a PR issue and even the mere existence of this post is evidence of a total failure of Crystal's public relations experience (assuming this really happened).

author=savegondor link=topic=11700.msg48868#msg48868 date=1231027346]
Yes, still unacceptable.  Good management and good customer service should have instantly and without question given out at least a free pass if not much much more.  Doesn't matter whether there was a power outage, or whether the lift workers could have done better.  This is a PR issue and even the mere existence of this post is evidence of a total failure of Crystal's public relations experience (assuming this really happened).


I really don't think Crystal Mt has any control over a power outage. Any more than they have control over an avalanche, high winds, etc. Being stuck on a chairlift for 28 minutes isn't too bad. How about beiing stuck intraffic for 60 minutes on 405? Are you going to ask WSDOT to reimburse you for the gas you burned waiting in traffic? No

author=Bandit link=topic=11700.msg48675#msg48675 date=1230688779]
Ok. Case closed. Down lift. Power out Diesal engines are hard to start in the cold. Since it's a new lift, Crystal probably called a mechanic to zoom up on a snowmobile to make sure the expensive engine was operated correctly.

No harm, no foul as I see it.

I had always thought back-up motors were run as part of start-up procedures everyday.

author=snoqpass link=topic=11700.msg48985#msg48985 date=1231189035]
I had always thought back-up motors were run as part of start-up procedures everyday.


Occasionally , Crystal will fire up the diesel engines to make surre they are operating correctly. But, only now and then. They should fire immediately,  with a person in the know, on how to operate those expensive pieces of equipment.

Many of you know I've been a vocal critic of CM customer relations. I wish I weren't but there it is. I will say that I have heard a couple of pretty bad stories already this year of people being treated less than thoughtfully. Really, how hard is it to do something nice for a dissatisfied customer (even if you - as a customer relations person - disagree) if they are genuine. A voucher for another day costs little relative to the loyalty and good will it will generate. The sad thing is you hear the bad stories, but it's rare to hear the good ones and it makes me think they're few and far between.

But I have one to share, and I have a major kudo for the lot patrol. On a very cold and blustery day last week my wife and I repaired to the adventuremobile at the end of the day to get ourselves organized prior to retrieving the grom trio closer to the lodge. As I do every time I ski I unlocked the 'burban, started it up for warmth and defrosting, and hit the unlock button to gain access to the barn doors for debootifying etc. Unfortunately, being fully gloved (which I'm normally not but it was really cold) I hit the down (locking) side of the button instead of the up (unlocking) side and shut the door. Engine running, keys in the ignition, doors locked, big stink-eye from the wife, much browbeating of self ensuing.

I flagged down one of the lot guys who, with an excellent attitude and sense of humor, persistently worked his door opening thingy for about 15 minutes before finally getting a window down regaining us access. He was cheerful, friendly and had a 'no big deal' approach to the whole thing. I gave him a tenner and he seemed so appreciative it made me wonder if such gratuities were unusual which of course they shouldn't be.

Since then I've become acutely aware of the movements of those old 4x4 trucks that prowl the parking lots and see them helping people all the time. THAT'S  how to take care of your customers, and perhaps the entire organization could take a lesson from these guys who are undoubtedly some of the coolest, hard working, cold-resistant and possibly most underpaid 'guest relations' experts at the resort.

Yes, I am an idiot, but I LOVE you guys!

Crystal has always had poor customer relations in my book.  My wife and I went up to ski after snoqualmie opened but could not use our pass because they were not in full operations.  they said that I could come back tomorrow and use it because west and central would be open.  I told them that was not full operations so why would it work tomorrow and not today?  They said that it had to do with full price tickets and not lifts open......  There were tons of people just like me trying to use their passes and get what we paid for.  We nicely asked them to work with us, like maybe half price or....  but they said there was nothing they could do, aka tough crap, give us your money.  Numerous people tried to talk to a manager or someone who could do something but we were never allowed to.  In my experiences it seems that they have an uncaring attitude to their customers. 

In another instance I was stuck on a lift at baker for 30 minutes.  when we got off they bent over backwards for us and we were not even making a big deal out of it.  Everyone just figured that it was part of skiing.  They passed out ticket vouchers and left a good taste in everyones mouth.  Sure, crystal is a good mountain but everytime I go there I get a snobbish bad taste in my mouth. 

Ummmm, is this a trip report???  I am getting tired of clicking on trip reports and seeing this rant about Crystal!  I believe this site is primarily for BC skiers.  Is there some reason people continue to use it as a forum to bitch?

Is there a moderator available??  Can we at least move this drivel to the proper category.  Sorry for the negativity,  but let's concentrate on skiing and less whining.  Thanks Kevin

author=khyak link=topic=11700.msg49364#msg49364 date=1231548790]
I am getting tired of clicking on trip reports and seeing this rant about Crystal! 


Me too!  I wish Crystal management would quit pissing people off. 

author=khyak link=topic=11700.msg49364#msg49364 date=1231548790]
Ummmm, is this a trip report???  I am getting tired of clicking on trip reports and seeing this rant about Crystal!  I believe this site is primarily for BC skiers.  Is there some reason people continue to use it as a forum to bitch?

Is there a moderator available??  Can we at least move this drivel to the proper category.  Sorry for the negativity,  but let's concentrate on skiing and less whining.  Thanks Kevin


I'm sorry, and I may get in trouble for this, but I always find it kinda funny when people complain about other people complaining in the same thread.

You should go back and look at some of the drivel and whining we've done in the past. THEN you'd have something to complain about!

You don't work for CM guest relations do you......?
;D

I just wanted to say that I am really enjoying the new crystal ski patrol blog which is very active, informative, and seems to be responding to the public's questions. It is a fine antidote to the TV show (about which the less said the better) and seems to be going a long way in fostering communication. So kudos to Crystal and I encourage folks to check it out.

author=Bandit link=topic=11700.msg48890#msg48890 date=1231048085]
I really don't think Crystal Mt has any control over a power outage. Any more than they have control over an avalanche, high winds, etc. Being stuck on a chairlift for 28 minutes isn't too bad. How about beiing stuck intraffic for 60 minutes on 405? Are you going to ask WSDOT to reimburse you for the gas you burned waiting in traffic? No


What obvious is that you've never had an illustrious job in sales as i have.  the good opinion spread by one happy skier (say one that was reinbursed by Crystal) sells Crystal to a lot of other people.  Crystal makes even more money by treating people well. 

28 minutes on a chair lift isn't bad?  So is it good?

the hypothetical on 405 is somewhat similar in the sense that if our city government provides a better product (i.e. 405 with less congestion), then the city is richer, wealthier, and it's citizens are happy.  More commerce is more wealth and is accomplished through good PR as well. 

Crystal PR certainly does not have control over power outages, anymore than they have control over my broken ankle; however, they do have control over their guest relations and it could be conducted in such a manner as to foster more positive feedback than negative. I too was in a position to ask for a voucher of sorts with respect to the unlimited usable season pass received as a Warren Miller prize. It was probably a write off to Crystal and cost them very little in the way of promotional material but it promised to be very effective: I was already convincing friends they HAD to ski Crystal this season and had every intention of bringing my 6 and 8 year old children. Alas, broken ankles do not bode well for ski season and I am still in a cast. Meanwhile, having called, emailed and written to guest relations (still can't drive), requesting a postponement of voucher redemption for the 09/10 season or some kind of transfer to another individual--everything was denied. Yes, I already posted about this, so I won't detail it again. I will however say that the experience that might have turned me into a "Crystal for life addict" has now soured and I am once again disinclined to spend money for lifts, remaining an "earn your turn" addict for myself and the next generation that follows me. Certainly, what have I lost that I already had? Nothing, easy come, easy go. But neither did Crystal gain,  when they had every opportunity to do so.

Your story is incredibly compelling, and their response is inconceivably wrongheaded. It just doesn't seem to be such a complicated equation to keep customers happy. Every time I think of this tale my head just spins with wonder.

Did they have any kind of reasoning that made any sense?

I'd be knocking - politely and respectfully of course - on JK's door in person I think....once you're mobile anyway!


author=Teleskichica link=topic=11700.msg49495#msg49495 date=1231773556]
Crystal PR certainly does not have control over power outages, anymore than they have control over my broken ankle; however, they do have control over their guest relations and it could be conducted in such a manner as to foster more positive feedback than negative. I too was in a position to ask for a voucher of sorts with respect to the unlimited usable season pass received as a Warren Miller prize. It was probably a write off to Crystal and cost them very little in the way of promotional material but it promised to be very effective: I was already convincing friends they HAD to ski Crystal this season and had every intention of bringing my 6 and 8 year old children. Alas, broken ankles do not bode well for ski season and I am still in a cast. Meanwhile, having called, emailed and written to guest relations (still can't drive), requesting a postponement of voucher redemption for the 09/10 season or some kind of transfer to another individual--everything was denied. Yes, I already posted about this, so I won't detail it again. I will however say that the experience that might have turned me into a "Crystal for life addict" has now soured and I am once again disinclined to spend money for lifts, remaining an "earn your turn" addict for myself and the next generation that follows me. Certainly, what have I lost that I already had? Nothing, easy come, easy go. But neither did Crystal gain,  when they had every opportunity to do so.

Reply to this TR

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december-27-2008-crystal-northway
Lisa
2008-12-29 16:14:16