December 13, 2003, Above Source Lake, Snoqualmie
12/13/03
WA Snoqualmie Pass
5943
14
Other posts today by wolfs and silaswild were on target regarding avalanche hazard, heavy snowfall, and arduous trail-breaking. With friends I took part in a leadership training exercise put on by Mountain Madness guides for the Seattle Mountaineers. Our original objective of Pineapple Pass was scrubbed owing to high avalanche hazard, but we headed in that direction staying in the trees to 4400'. Observed a couple of small naturals while crossing Mushroom Couloir on the climb, and a large natural descending from the Tooth while we were descending. As we crossed Mushroom Couloir again on our way out we encountered SPART (Ski Patrol Area Rescue Team) and Alpental Ski Patrol. They were probing/shoveling to find a snowshoer buried hours earlier. A party of snowshoers was apparently following our uptrack. One was caught, no transceiver, one fatality.
That is really sad. A snow shoe party was caught in a slide near Artist Point yesterday. I was up skiing in the area with my seven-year-old daughter and the conditions were ripe for avalanches; over an inch an hour of dense wind blown (southwest up to 20 mph) snow.
It is a disappointment when people without any mountain sense can wander off and get into trouble. These kinds of events are going to increase when people can walk into a shop and buy some shoes to go snow hiking. It is being sold as a winter augment to summer hiking when mountain conditions in winter are far more dangerous.
I have seen a fair number of people out there in conditions and places that would curl most of our short hairs! And it all comes down to a lack of understanding of the dangers they have exposed themselves to. Somehow I feel that it is a more level playing field when people have made the decision to go into the back country with the understanding that it is dangerous. With the mental switches working and some knowledge to make decisions with, plus a cautous attitude, you can keep yourself alive out there. Because, let's face it, unless you are very unlucky or dumb, your chances of getting caught in an avalance in our snow pack are pretty small. Just my two cents on these two fatalities.
It is a disappointment when people without any mountain sense can wander off and get into trouble. These kinds of events are going to increase when people can walk into a shop and buy some shoes to go snow hiking. It is being sold as a winter augment to summer hiking when mountain conditions in winter are far more dangerous.
I have seen a fair number of people out there in conditions and places that would curl most of our short hairs! And it all comes down to a lack of understanding of the dangers they have exposed themselves to. Somehow I feel that it is a more level playing field when people have made the decision to go into the back country with the understanding that it is dangerous. With the mental switches working and some knowledge to make decisions with, plus a cautous attitude, you can keep yourself alive out there. Because, let's face it, unless you are very unlucky or dumb, your chances of getting caught in an avalance in our snow pack are pretty small. Just my two cents on these two fatalities.
Greg: do you know where the slide was? The paper said "between Artist Point and Table Mountain." Blueberry Chutes? The switchback in the state highway just below Artist Point?
Brent: the news reports said that the woman who died was one of a party of nine, which contradicts our understanding at the time that she was one of the couple following us until we turned uphill towards Pineapple Basin. Do you happen to know anything more about this?
Thanks for any further information. I'm asking because I am thinking about my own decision-making process; I don't want to get involved in second-guessing any of those involved. My support and condolences to friends and family.
Brent: the news reports said that the woman who died was one of a party of nine, which contradicts our understanding at the time that she was one of the couple following us until we turned uphill towards Pineapple Basin. Do you happen to know anything more about this?
Thanks for any further information. I'm asking because I am thinking about my own decision-making process; I don't want to get involved in second-guessing any of those involved. My support and condolences to friends and family.
Brent: what are you refering to as Mushroom Couloir? Is this the drainage at the edge of the large open area before the trail re-enters the woods, a half mile or so before Source Lake? In early season ice sometimes forms here and several times I've seen a few ice climbers just up from the trail. The trail then re-enters the woods, crosses one large treed slide path, continues in forest, then crosses the large slide path coming down from Pineapple Pass and reaches Source Lake. I'm wondering where the snowshoer was caught and if she was on the main trail when it happened.
Here is a photo of Mushroom Couloir from alpental.com.
http://www.alpental.com/stokesr.htm
here is another angle:
http://www.alpental.com/stokess.htm
Of course, these photos are from 1999, it's usually not that filled in, but still easy to recognize.
My condolences to the families & loved ones of the people that died in the avalanches.
http://www.alpental.com/stokesr.htm
here is another angle:
http://www.alpental.com/stokess.htm
Of course, these photos are from 1999, it's usually not that filled in, but still easy to recognize.
My condolences to the families & loved ones of the people that died in the avalanches.
Thanks for the links Corey. Pictures are far better at describing something like this than words. My condolences to the families and friends of those who perished this weekend.
Mark,
What I gather from the paper is that the slide happened at the switchback. Western senior out for a hike on friday with two friends. They were buried for 24 hours until one of them managed to dig his way out. She was out on her third hike this winter.
What a sad event for her family. Makes me wish that people had a better idea of what is going on out there. Just a kid out hiking with her friends.......
What I gather from the paper is that the slide happened at the switchback. Western senior out for a hike on friday with two friends. They were buried for 24 hours until one of them managed to dig his way out. She was out on her third hike this winter.
What a sad event for her family. Makes me wish that people had a better idea of what is going on out there. Just a kid out hiking with her friends.......
First, my sympathies to the families. I would like to see some good come from this and would like to propose that we as a group could put together some sort of avalanche awareness/ training for high school students. Some high schools have ski/ snowboard &/or snowshoe clubs (or am assuming so). Could any of us get time off from work for community volunteer efforts to help educate this group? I have no idea when school clubs meet now but when I was in school it was during school hours so we would have a captive audience for this. If we could get someone to go point on this - mountaineers? - that could help put together a Power point show and hand outs we could start making phone calls to the schools to arrange this. I would be willing to make the calls and do some of the presentations. Anyone with me on this?
John Teeters
206-271-3467 best number
John Teeters
206-271-3467 best number
Thanks. That is exactly the type of program I was talking about. I will contact them now to see how I can help.
Lat 47deg 27min 1sec N
Long 121deg 26min 17sec W
Elevation 3439
Corey's pictures show the location. In fact, these photos show up slope terrain within 0.1 mile of the likely burial site.
Published reports indicate victim was on Snow Lake Trail. Not so, she was following our track on the winter trail, on the other side (SW) of the S Fork Snoqualmie River drainage.
Mark, I've seen nothing regarding victim's party size. I understand that the call to 911 was by cell phone by a witness. I remember three parties of snow shoers, one of 3, 2M , 1F; and two of 2, 1M, 1F. My suspicion is that our party of 10 skiers became the 'party of 9 snow shoers' in the usual media confusion. But maybe not.
Long 121deg 26min 17sec W
Elevation 3439
Corey's pictures show the location. In fact, these photos show up slope terrain within 0.1 mile of the likely burial site.
Published reports indicate victim was on Snow Lake Trail. Not so, she was following our track on the winter trail, on the other side (SW) of the S Fork Snoqualmie River drainage.
Mark, I've seen nothing regarding victim's party size. I understand that the call to 911 was by cell phone by a witness. I remember three parties of snow shoers, one of 3, 2M , 1F; and two of 2, 1M, 1F. My suspicion is that our party of 10 skiers became the 'party of 9 snow shoers' in the usual media confusion. But maybe not.
My sympathies also go out to the lost ones and their families. However I am still asking myself that question of why were they out there in hazardous conditions.
Snowboarder_John the avalanche awareness and training for high school students is great idea but honestly do you think it will be helpful? I don't know about you but most of the kids I run into in the bc don't have no knowledge of the snowpack, current conditions, basic equipment, nor do they care. Basic equipment being shovel, probe, and transceiver. Even the ones that do have some knowledge tend to let that one powder run get in their way. This just isn't the kids either. I use to be one of those dumb kids growing up but some of my new friends (voli patrols @ Alpy) have shown me the light so to speak. Just read the accident report involving a propatroller named Peter and the run named after his slide.
The point I am trying to make is that even with all the knowledge and gear it's the decision you make with it. We all have to make those calculated risks. I believe people get false confidence with all the equipment that is advertised to protect you from avalanches. Maybe the companies need to revise their advertising strategies. Once again I am not speaking about all kids. Their are a few that want to gain the knowledge and experience but the majority (just my experience) don't care. I sure hope this is not a sign of things to come.
By the way I would be interested in helping and learning more myself. You can never be done learning.
Snowboarder_John the avalanche awareness and training for high school students is great idea but honestly do you think it will be helpful? I don't know about you but most of the kids I run into in the bc don't have no knowledge of the snowpack, current conditions, basic equipment, nor do they care. Basic equipment being shovel, probe, and transceiver. Even the ones that do have some knowledge tend to let that one powder run get in their way. This just isn't the kids either. I use to be one of those dumb kids growing up but some of my new friends (voli patrols @ Alpy) have shown me the light so to speak. Just read the accident report involving a propatroller named Peter and the run named after his slide.
The point I am trying to make is that even with all the knowledge and gear it's the decision you make with it. We all have to make those calculated risks. I believe people get false confidence with all the equipment that is advertised to protect you from avalanches. Maybe the companies need to revise their advertising strategies. Once again I am not speaking about all kids. Their are a few that want to gain the knowledge and experience but the majority (just my experience) don't care. I sure hope this is not a sign of things to come.
By the way I would be interested in helping and learning more myself. You can never be done learning.
<snip>
I agree that we have all made mistakes in the past. However, I think that misses the point. My whole take on this is that there is a missing link in education that has fallen by the wayside. When I started heading out in winter (eek! over 30 years already) I did so with experienced mountaineers and backcountry traverlers. There was a formal and informal system of teaching the inexperienced and young through friendships, college clubs, and schools (Spokane and Seattle Mountaineers come to mind).
The young, foolhardy and plain uninformed were not out in the mountains back then. Or if they were, they were few in number. Coupled with this was a culture of respect for the dangers of the mountains.
What I see now is an easy access to the mountains without the informal apprentiship that existed back in the day plus a glorification of the extreme and radical.
I feel sadness for the young life that was lost up near Artist Point and the other loss down south. I also understand that it needs to be pointed out that the backcountry has become a busy place and not all the individuals out there have a clear understanding of the dangers and risks involved.
How do we put back the missing link as I call it? I have just started to think about that. It does seem to me that the Canadian Government has started down the correct road. When conditions are unstable the news media up there put out the word on television, print media and radio. My friends in BC tell me that the media was flooded with information a few weeks ago when an avalance cycle was predicted.
Whatever others have to say, I think it is important that a discussion over this will only help in the long run to keep the same mistake from happening again. It just seems so sad to see an uninformed young person lose their life.
Gregg Cronn
The young, foolhardy and plain uninformed were not out in the mountains back then. Or if they were, they were few in number. Coupled with this was a culture of respect for the dangers of the mountains.
What I see now is an easy access to the mountains without the informal apprentiship that existed back in the day plus a glorification of the extreme and radical.
I feel sadness for the young life that was lost up near Artist Point and the other loss down south. I also understand that it needs to be pointed out that the backcountry has become a busy place and not all the individuals out there have a clear understanding of the dangers and risks involved.
How do we put back the missing link as I call it? I have just started to think about that. It does seem to me that the Canadian Government has started down the correct road. When conditions are unstable the news media up there put out the word on television, print media and radio. My friends in BC tell me that the media was flooded with information a few weeks ago when an avalance cycle was predicted.
Whatever others have to say, I think it is important that a discussion over this will only help in the long run to keep the same mistake from happening again. It just seems so sad to see an uninformed young person lose their life.
Gregg Cronn
I followed the weblink provided to www.alpinesafety.org and contacted Michael Jackson. I have also contacted the King county person for curriculum and hope to gain an audience with her in January. Michael's program is approved in many county school systems and I hope to bring it to the Seattle/ Bellevue area. In addition, while looking at the www.avsp.org site I noticed that Chuck Hemphill is looking for ways that the Saftey patrol can do some community service. It seems to me that there is some small amount of momentum that can be started here. I agree wholeheartedly that this is just an awareness to the whole nature of the BC but I think we need to raise the level of education of these people any way we can. When ESPN X games, magazines and videos are showing BC freestyle; access is easier and equipment giving a false sense of invicibility I just think it is a small part to be done. I hope it helps someone down the road. Michael's email address is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and he responds quickly! If you have time, energy, spare money or whatever I think it would be greatly appreciated by the program.
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