Turns All Year Trip Reports

Hot Air => Weak Layers: decision making in avalanche terrain => Topic started by: avajane on 02/23/14, 12:24 PM



Title: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: avajane on 02/23/14, 12:24 PM
Just saw an avalanche observation in NWAC about an avalanche with a 10' crown that came off the north face of Chair Peak and traveled 1900'. Three skiers were partially buried, but I guess uninjured. I'd like to see this report on here...


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: prestonf on 02/23/14, 01:36 PM
Well, I'm sure info will make its way out.  Maybe NWAC will do a report?  In the meantime, I don't think the folks involved owe the internet anything if they don't feel like it.  Sounds scary.  Glad no one was injured!!


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: silaswild on 02/23/14, 01:59 PM
http://www.livingsnoqualmie.com/lucky-skiers-escape-avalanche-chair-peak-near-snoqualmie-pass/


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Charlie Hagedorn on 02/23/14, 02:17 PM
Quote from: prestonf on 02/23/14, 01:36 PM
In the meantime, I don't think the folks involved owe the internet anything if they don't feel like it.


Agreed. Even if the party does decide to post about it, there's no rush.

Super glad only skis were lost; hope no one else was below along frequently-traveled routes.

Thanks to those (perhaps the party itself) who reported the slide to NWAC for getting the word out.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Marcus on 02/23/14, 03:39 PM
If I'm guessing right, this is the slope that slid.  Skiers were perhaps on the bench/ridge lower left?
[img width=600 height=800]http://kurthicks.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/img_6161.jpg[/img]


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: avajane on 02/23/14, 04:35 PM
Quote from: freeskiguy on 02/23/14, 03:36 PM
Is chair peak concidered a safe treed terrain or a hazzardous avy terrain objective?


One mans safe...

Not the kind of position I would intentionally put myself in right now. I'm skinning roads, hiding in trees, and skiing low angle ridge lines. Yesterday it sucked - today I found fantastic snow. There is good stuff to be found in relatively safe areas, but I guess you have to know where they are.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: aaron_wright on 02/23/14, 05:16 PM
Is that the normal route those folks are taking? That seems really cavalier, the crossloading on that slope is screaming at them. Wouldn't it be safer to climb to the small saddle above them and traverse just under the cliffs? I don't know that area.
Quote from: Marcus on 02/23/14, 03:39 PM
If I'm guessing right, this is the slope that slid.  Skiers were perhaps on the bench/ridge lower left?
[img width=600 height=800]http://kurthicks.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/img_6161.jpg[/img]


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Marcus on 02/23/14, 05:22 PM
I've only been up there once or twice, so others can weigh in, but the typical approach to that ridge is out of frame to the lower left and not in the line of fire from that cliff and the cross-loaded slope.  The approach path to where this picture was taken is pretty steep and open in its own right, though perhaps less exposed than the pictured terrain.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Squakmtn on 02/23/14, 07:44 PM
My guess is the slide started above the folks in the picture posted by Marcus and then ran down the low angle rolling terrain that ends at a very prominent bench which is the top of a large cliff band about 400' above Snow Lake.  There is a chute that drops through that cliff band and on down to the lake and it sounds like the skiers were near the entrance to that chute when the slide happened coming at them from above.  The article linked by Marcus said "Fortunately it banked left of the mountain" which I interpret to mean that they were very lucky it didn't sweep them over that cliff to the lake...

When conditions are right, skiing that chute to the lake can be sublime but it is an obvious major avy path which should be avoided when hazard is considerable.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: T. Eastman on 02/23/14, 08:03 PM
Ya think?


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Griff on 02/23/14, 09:31 PM
Skied the east side of chair with my son yesterday. About 10 different  groups out. Snow felt solid yet that was the surface snow.

The route through Bryant colouir is the normal route and is where the skiers are in the pics. You really can't make that bench due to hazard on the other side.

I am glad no one was killed below them at the lake. Some friends headed that way at noon.

My takeaway is that one just never knows, especially with the weird winter we have seen. 


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: T. Eastman on 02/23/14, 10:19 PM
... so essentially playing roulette is cool as long as you are lucky...


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Snoqualmonix on 02/24/14, 12:42 AM
Just wanted to offer a few clarifying points and some other food for thought since there's still much incomplete info we're speculating on.

Chair peak is just over 6200', the living snoqualmie story (which is written by a local blogger here in the valley, and though a great piece of sometimes local news/gossip, is not a stand alone source of news) stated the slide ran from 6200' on the north aspect.  If this is accurate this means the north face, a popular alpine climbing route, went above the party.  And if this is accurate, they were trapped in an exposed area which had greater consequences for them than the slope/slab/angle/tress vs. open slope we're quick to jump to. 

After enjoying the storm of the season here last week, I had the good fortune to spend the last two day in the baker bc while teaching some courses that heavily discussed red flags and terrain selection.  If this party's observations were similar to mine, there might have been different days in which they were shocked by the stability observed and tested relative to obvious flags created from the storm #'s and avy forecast and as such, used their judgement and experience to venture beyond the 20 degree woods.  If if this has any accuracy, then a reminder is good for all of us that terrain traps live heavily above us too.  But then again, I am also speculating.

Griff, sorry brother, but your geography's a bit off.  Skiers in photo are under the NE buttress of chair, venturing out under north face.  They would have come from chair east basin (above source), which is behind them and down a few 100'.  Bryant couloir leaves from source basin, but can take you up and around behind chair (if doing clockwise circumnav).  None of those zones around Source/Chair east basin should be considered "safe" to play in by any stretch of the imagination, but instead a shooting gallery of 5+ active slide paths IMO.  I do agree that one never knows, that's the magic of it when the science stops!  Glad you and the flying kid were out getting after it, perhaps ill see you before the April powder storms this year!

Be safe y'all, study hard, look for yourself and point your tips and be brave!


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Griff on 02/24/14, 10:21 AM
Thanks Morgan. I thought I might be a bit off, was just trying to orientate myself. Appreciate you setting the record straight for all......and me. LOL.

We had a great time on the east side of Chair on Saturday, take a look.

Oh it sounds like G is taking another class this spring at the club. COOL!! Maybe I will come down and get in to shape. UGH!


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: mattgoyer on 02/24/14, 12:05 PM
Here's the accident report: http://www.nwac.us/observations/pk/101/


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: alpentalcorey on 02/24/14, 12:53 PM
Did the slide really happen at midnight?  Or perhaps that's when everyone finally got out and things got reported?  Seems an odd time/place to be out there, though I remember thinking about trying to do something like that with headlamps on both wrists and thighs.  Never really made it happen.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Mattski on 02/24/14, 12:54 PM
Some key details that exceed most observations we make:

  • 10'crown-skier impact maxes out at 3' down

  • Snowpack observations and tests rarely go deeper than 6'

    This slab might represent the entire recent storm snow at and above treeline in the Snoq Pass zone where there is no telemetry to look for actual storm totals and winds. This might be similar to the very large slides that came off the Shuksan arm in the 98/99 season which ran multiple times and the MLK crust from that season. The crust posed the risk of large storms lingering until they were 8-15' deep then failed naturally.

    Very difficult to understand the circumstances of the group's position and decision making without a firsthand account. It does speak to the issue of terrain choice right now regarding at and above treeline North facing terrain with a deeply buried raincrust with large storm & wind slabs now above.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Charlie Hagedorn on 02/24/14, 01:07 PM
Quote from: alpentalcorey on 02/24/14, 12:53 PM
Did the slide really happen at midnight? 


If you look at the rest of the list,

http://www.nwac.us/observations/

every event occurs at "midnight", perhaps an artifact of the underlying data structure. In the comments for the Chair Peak slide, they lead off with "12:00 PM", presumably noon-ish.



Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: alpentalcorey on 02/24/14, 02:15 PM
Thanks, that makes more sense.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: ps44 on 02/24/14, 02:25 PM
Quote from: T. Eastman on 02/23/14, 10:19 PM
... so essentially playing roulette is cool as long as you are lucky...


I agree with this sentiment.  The north side of Chair Peak in my opinion is a no go zone after recent massive snowfall, without giving the snowpack a day or two (or a week) to consolidate, and with possible buried unstable layers.

The area above Source Lake towards the Chair Peak should be treated very cautiously; I have seen massive debris piles filling up the entire Source Lake basin with car-sized slab chunks.  Glad everybody is alive with a story to tell...


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: tabski on 02/24/14, 05:30 PM
It seems to me we know more about the psychology and experience of the people commenting in this thread than the avalanche incident itself.







Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Splitter on 02/24/14, 09:03 PM
Based on limited facts available it appears poor decision making played a part. The rush to judgement makes me uncomfortable because I own it as much as anyone and while it may be accurate in this case, it is so easy to be wrong. Better to hold out a hand than start swinging a stick.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: JoshK on 02/24/14, 10:09 PM
Quote from: Splitter on 02/24/14, 09:03 PM
Based on limited facts available it appears poor decision making played a part. The rush to judgement makes me uncomfortable because I own it as much as anyone and while it may be accurate in this case, it is so easy to be wrong. Better to hold out a hand than start swinging a stick.


Agreed. Considering the lack of reply from those involved (I refuse to believe they don't at least view this site), I would imagine there is an element of embarrassment involved that is leading them to remain quiet. Speculation, armchair QBing and the like probably won't encourage people to speak up.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: T. Eastman on 02/24/14, 10:14 PM
Quote:
Speculation, armchair QBing and the like probably won't encourage people to speak up.


Should they be coddled and given stars?


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: jj on 02/24/14, 10:51 PM
Quote from: T. Eastman on 02/24/14, 10:14 PM
Should they be coddled and given stars?


I don't think anyone has suggested coddling or handing out stars.  Rather, it is a question of whether we should give people the benefit of the doubt or assume the worst when we discuss an event for which we don't know the facts.

For what it's worth, it looks like many folks have been caught unexpectedly by slides from above their position.  See the NWAC Observation on February 24 for another example.  If this was also the case for the 2/22 event perhaps it's more forgivable than we might otherwise assume.

However, to directly answer your question...  I guess the degree to which we make this a comfortable place for the 2/22 event skiers to tell their story depends on how badly we want to get more information.  I am willing to defer judgement to the extent that it results in more information that we can all use to make sound backcountry decisions.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: T. Eastman on 02/24/14, 11:21 PM
jj, perhaps you are desiring more information than you need to calculate into your decision matrix during and immediately large snow events.  Following the past weeks' weather cycle one could clearly see that there was:

- A boatload of snow over the past week or so, and
- Much of that snow was delivered with wind, and
- The terrain is relatively steep, and
- Bonding of layers deep in the snowpack has been suspect for much of the winter.

This information is primarily non-scientific, area-wide, and can generate a go/no-go decision, or a choice to ski less threatening terrain. 


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Gregg_C on 02/25/14, 06:21 AM
I would suggest that this forum should be an area for all backcountry enthusiasts to learn as much as possible about avalanche events.  If it is going to be a rant session then so be it.  Personally, and professionally as an AIARE instructor, I would like everyone to post the details of events and near misses without others making comments as to the soundness of their decisions.  Read the article below.

http://sportgevity.com/article/changing-culture-shame-0

If we take a systems error approach to analyzing events we will have a setting where more knowledge and incite will be gained.  I have been guilty of making quick judgement in the past and I have recently come to the understanding that many of us have had the experience of making poor decisions.  My poor decisions would certainly have seemed foolhardy to others in hindsight.  Nobody wants to be embarrassed publicly or called out as being stupid.  We are engaged in an activity that is potentially quite harmful.  The risks can never be reduced to nil.  However, lets try and learn as much as possible about events so our collective knowledge for ALL backcountry users is improved.

Here is a link to an excellent post that discusses this issue surrounding events in BC. 

http://www.backcountrybc.org/2013_12_25_archive.html

Gregg Cronn


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: aaron_wright on 02/25/14, 06:47 AM
Of course they visit this site, one of them posted in yardsale and random tracks about their splitter and pair skis they lost in the slide.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: LukerBee on 02/25/14, 08:25 AM
Quote from: jj on 02/24/14, 10:51 PM
... If this was also the case for the 2/23 event perhaps it's more forgivable than we might otherwise assume.

However, to directly answer your question...  I guess the degree to which we make this a comfortable place for the 2/23 event skiers to tell their story depends on how badly we want to get more information....


Was there an avalanche at Chair on 2/22 and 2/23?


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Griff on 02/25/14, 09:57 AM
Quote from: Gregg_C on 02/25/14, 06:21 AM
I would suggest that this forum should be an area for all backcountry enthusiasts to learn as much as possible about avalanche events.  If it is going to be a rant session then so be it.  Personally, and professionally as an AIARE instructor, I would like everyone to post the details of events and near misses without others making comments as to the soundness of their decisions.  Read the article below.

http://sportgevity.com/article/changing-culture-shame-0

If we take a systems error approach to analyzing events we will have a setting where more knowledge and incite will be gained.  I have been guilty of making quick judgement in the past and I have recently come to the understanding that many of us have had the experience of making poor decisions.  My poor decisions would certainly have seemed foolhardy to others in hindsight.  Nobody wants to be embarrassed publicly or called out as being stupid.  We are engaged in an activity that is potentially quite harmful.  The risks can never be reduced to nil.  However, lets try and learn as much as possible about events so our collective knowledge for ALL backcountry users is improved.

Here is a link to an excellent post that discusses this issue surrounding events in BC. 

http://www.backcountrybc.org/2013_12_25_archive.html

Gregg Cronn



Thank you bro. This is the real reason this community exists. Not to use strongly worded posts that say "WTF were you thinking?".

I have a regular post on my Team's Facebook page on Friday's called "Come Back for Another Day" and deeply believe that is "right" perspective for me and the folks I climb with (primarily my son) to have. I started in 1984 and want to keep comin back until the day I die from something other than an avy.

My post from this past Friday was simply "a lot of new snow, high avy warning by NWAC, good weekend to be smart". I was also out on Friday in the Alpy BC so felt like I had a good feeling for the snow. That does not mean though that I felt "safe".

So heading up a short way in less then 20-25 degree slopes was within my danger spectrum. Climbing higher, or under cornices or onto steep terrain was not. My son jumping off a cliff was not steep terrain per se. LOL. 


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: trees4me on 02/25/14, 12:13 PM
Quote from: Mattski on 02/24/14, 12:54 PM
Some key details that exceed most observations we make:

  • 10'crown-skier impact maxes out at 3' down

  • Snowpack observations and tests rarely go deeper than 6'

    This slab might represent the entire recent storm snow at and above treeline in the Snoq Pass zone where there is no telemetry to look for actual storm totals and winds. This might be similar to the very large slides that came off the Shuksan arm in the 98/99 season which ran multiple times and the MLK crust from that season. The crust posed the risk of large storms lingering until they were 8-15' deep then failed naturally.




Really appreciate your comments. 

I find these deep snow slides are very difficult to predict since many of our typical tools aren't applicable at these scales.  The observational tools work, but can't be easily validated with testing.  Hopefully the deep weak layer is strengthening.  However, the reported slide makes it appear that the large storm slab is very close to naturally sliding, and that is not a comforting thought.




Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: kerwinl on 02/25/14, 01:12 PM
Quote from: trees4me on 02/25/14, 12:13 PM
Really appreciate your comments. 

I find these deep snow slides are very difficult to predict since many of our typical tools aren't applicable at these scales.  The observational tools work, but can't be easily validated with testing.  Hopefully the deep weak layer is strengthening.  However, the reported slide makes it appear that the large storm slab is very close to naturally sliding, and that is not a comforting thought.




The weight of one person in comparison to the weight of the snow when the weak layer is buried this far down is insignificant. The inability to trigger slides unless at shallow spots may explain why people in general are observing good stability in their test and observations while out this past weekend, but we are still seeing large failures happen in multiple places. It will be interesting to see what happens as we get a period of warming over the next few days.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: jj on 02/25/14, 03:15 PM
Quote from: LukerBee on 02/25/14, 08:25 AM
Was there an avalanche at Chair on 2/22 and 2/23?


Sorry. Typo on my part. Fixed in the original post.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: CookieMonster on 02/25/14, 05:59 PM
I think we can all accept that people are gonna do stupid things, but if you belong to this site, and buy gear from this site, and post avalanche incident notifications, then I think you can expect that the tribe will want to have its say. And is that such a bad thing? There are a lot of people here who know a lot of stuff.

Over the past few days, I've participated in a review of an accident ( with fatality ) that occurred last year. It didn't happen on Chair Peak, and it was skier-triggered rather than remotely-triggered, but other than that, the incidents are pretty much interchangeable. Increasingly that's what I see when I review accidents. The names of the people and places are different, but pretty much everything else is the same.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: blitz on 02/25/14, 06:37 PM
This was an interesting TR, on the same day as this chair peak slide:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=30882.0

The aspect is different, but it's the same big dump of snow on the same three weeks of crust.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: JoshK on 02/25/14, 09:06 PM
Quote from: blitz on 02/25/14, 06:37 PM
This was an interesting TR, on the same day as this chair peak slide:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=30882.0

The aspect is different, but it's the same big dump of snow on the same three weeks of crust.


I probably wouldn't have pushed my luck in the slot on that day (nor would most people I ski with), but I wasn't there, so I can't say if it was safe or not. It may have been a perfectly reasonable call, who knows...not I.

Though I will offer this: plenty of the time survival is blind luck. This was illustrated to me a couple of years back when I was returning to the Baker ski area, back from Ptarmigan Ridge and Table Mountain. The avalanche risk was what I would consider quite serious. I had been out there a couple nights and it snowed more than expected, so I managed things best I could, and kept it as mellow as I was able. One slope I had to ski cut and it slid rather significantly. Upon nearing the ski area I saw plenty of "sick line, bro" folks dropping off the ridges (some corniced, plenty loaded) right outside the ski area, where it is not controlled. All it takes is one guy doing it, and all the other sheeple follow. Anyway, it wasn't a smart day to be doing that given the conditions. I don't think anybody who had a clue about avalanche risk would have been, but it's safe to say 99.99% of the folks doing it didn't fall in that category. Luckily they didn't trigger anything, but they may well have. Let's say the risk was 10% to trigger something; and yes, I realize this isn't something you could ever put a statistical chance on, but I digress. I imagine most anybody here would say that is far too high of a risk to take. On the other hand, if 9 people drop in on one of those lines, it's also perfectly possible that nothing will trigger. When nothing does, it simply reinforces the behavior. Maybe those folks I saw that day will have their luck run out at some point, or maybe they won't, who knows. What I took from that experience was that I never want to operate that way, and I'd prefer to stack the deck in my favor. Will that remove all risk, or guarantee that I won't screw up at some point? Of course not, but I'm at least going to try my best.


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: avajane on 02/25/14, 11:14 PM
I started this post by saying "I'd like to see the report on here..."

Since then there has been two pages of posts - mostly critical of being below Chair Peak in such a position - at this level of avalanche danger.

Lots of others, however, have been non-committal and wanting to see  what those involved had to say.

Others have said we should refrain from any criticism or judgements, so that there was a supportive place where people could share their observations.

I like all of these responses, and hope that everyone continues as they have.  I've been on this site for a few years now, and have never  seen anyone get way out of hand. I used to be on rec.climbing during it's heyday, and know what bad flaming and trolling is all about. That doesn't really happen here. I think there are enough people here that know  we are really all idiots - so they always give some slack no matter what. There are also many others who say "WTF - what were you thinking"

It's great to be supportive and non-judgemental so that people feel free to share. It's also important that someone has the nerve to ask the hard questions, and even level criticism from time to time. Being a community doesn't mean we always have to  love each other. But is is nice when we are reasonable civil. I always try to be pretty good here because I know I'm an idiot, I've often had bad judgement, and despite many years of doing this, I still don't really know when something will slide.

If the group that was in that stupid, dangerous position ;) reads this.... We really do want to know why - as most think it's instructive.

Just for the record, I remember rambling around in a near whiteout without a compass or map and  trying to climb Snoqualmie Peak. I'm absolutely certain we had no idea of the Avy danger, no idea what we were under, and I'm sure we didn't have more than 3 or 4 of the ten essentials. My old partner might read this and remember the facts differently - but he's an idiot too!


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: Charlie Hagedorn on 02/26/14, 08:09 AM
Cross-link for future readers -- the reporting party posted a trip report here:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=30926.0


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: flowing alpy on 02/27/14, 09:29 AM
Quote from: aaron_wright on 02/25/14, 06:47 AM
Of course they visit this site, one of them posted in yardsale and random tracks about their splitter and pair skis they lost in the slide.


this one appeared more urgent, those dudes just wanted to get right back at it.
relatives of rog
b


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: chieftaffy on 03/03/14, 02:20 PM
Quote from: freeskiguy on 03/01/14, 03:07 PM
I've seen that ''rog'' refference before,what is it about?


= dragon chasers


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: dberdinka on 03/03/14, 04:11 PM
Quote from: flowing alpy on 02/27/14, 09:29 AM
this one appeared more urgent, those dudes just wanted to get right back at it.


Ya think maybe they just wanted to get their skis back like anyone would?   Seriously you all need to move on.

(http://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/beating-a-dead-horse.png)


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: JoshK on 03/04/14, 12:15 PM
Quote from: dberdinka on 03/03/14, 04:11 PM
Ya think maybe they just wanted to get their skis back like anyone would?   Seriously you all need to move on.

(http://mgoblog.com/sites/mgoblog.com/files/beating-a-dead-horse.png)


LOL!! Well done, sir.

This topic will be hard to let die off this week with little good skiing to be found in this crap weather. That's just the reality of the matter I do believe :-/


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: T. Eastman on 03/05/14, 10:42 PM
Quote:
But when some one drops into a tree well or hits a tree, no one trys to shame them.


... oh just give me the opportunity. 

Actually there has been no shaming going on from my perspective.  We have just witnessed perhaps the most participated discussion ever to have landed in TAYville.  A spirited discussion perhaps but that is far better than a parade of well wishes, pseudo-scientific babble, with-ya-bro comments that avoid the simple and obvious errors that contribute to the same results in the same conditions time and time again.

The biggest decision has already been made when you park the car at the trail head...


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: rlsg on 03/10/14, 06:13 PM
And when you head to lower consequence and 'potential of sliding" area, don't drop your guard about localized wind slab formation especially near little terrain traps (even in the trees..). 

HEADS UP-- ALL THE TIME!


Title: Re: February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche
Post by: flowing alpy on 03/13/14, 05:39 AM
campbell affairs kinda put this one to rest but in both cases, it was lucky, only material objects were lost.
b


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