Turns All Year Trip Reports

2010 Backcountry Trip Reports => September 2010 Backcountry Trip Reports => Topic started by: cascadesfreak on 09/03/10, 09:09 PM



Title: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: cascadesfreak on 09/03/10, 09:09 PM
September: check. 

Joy-O-Meter: 5%    (~60 vert ft skied / ~1,200 vert ft hiked). 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: ron j on 09/04/10, 09:15 AM
No doubt a little known talent you and the Kamster developed together, undercover.
Also saves the 2 hr drive and slightly longer hike to get to the Paradise patch.
One can never cease to marvel at the ingenuity of modern man when faced with today's challenges.
High Five.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/04/10, 10:31 AM
Nice!
So, if you only ski uphill, do you get a total of negative v.f. and still count it for a month? 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: markharf on 09/04/10, 10:38 AM
Funny, Chris.  I walked with a friend up to Snow Lake at a rather plodding pace the other day, which meant I had lots of time to contemplate those tiny, filthy, crusted and cupped patches of remnant snow across the valley.  At one point I heard myself musing about some people I know who favor *skiing* such patches for the sheer joy of accumulating the lowest possible ratio of vertical footage to exertion.  It made perfect sense to me, but she expressed a bit of perplexity.  

Glad you're out there stretching the boundaries of what is possible, probable and, in this case, barely vaguely conceivable for the rest of us!

Mark


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: JibberD on 09/04/10, 11:18 AM
This certainly soldifies and verifies the "freak" in your TAY moniker.

Merit badge earned.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: kneel turner on 09/04/10, 02:35 PM
That is so lame it's awesome.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/05/10, 07:57 AM
Quote from: kneel turner on 09/04/10, 02:35 PM
That is so lame it's awesome.


...but no lamer than me claiming 300 ft of boot turns for August...   at least he schlepped more weight uphill..   


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: cascadesfreak on 09/06/10, 04:19 PM
Quote from: telemack on 09/04/10, 10:31 AM
So, if you only ski uphill, do you get a total of negative v.f. and still count it for a month? 
For me uphill ski only wouldn't count as my definition for "turns" remains one turn left and one turn right (in downhill direction on skis), but for some that count uphill only as 'turns' it would seem possibe to have a 'negative' joy-0-meter (though 'negative joy' seems contradictory  ;)  ). 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: James Wells on 09/06/10, 04:22 PM
Why not shoot for 50% JOM?  If would have only taken 20 laps.  I know, such a pain, putting the skins on, skinning up, taking them off ...


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/07/10, 08:52 PM
Quote from: davidG on 09/05/10, 07:57 AM
...boot turns for August....   

??? 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: trees4me on 09/08/10, 10:23 AM
how long did it take you to clear the rocks off?  I guess that's why you didn't look for a larger patch...?  ;D


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/08/10, 12:52 PM
Quote from: telemack on 09/07/10, 08:52 PM
???   


Mack, perplexed?  Or in total disagreement?   ;D    You know, i queried the tribe on this last month ~ more in fun than seriously.  A couple said yea, one said WTF, and you called it a slippery slope...  Frankly, I have to agree with all.  That said, I've also 'skiied' the Nisqually chutes on only my boots.  And sand dunes on real skis, and I have a plan to ski (on skis) a big dirt/grass hill (2500') this fall in E Wa area (BLM reclamation area - some issues surrounding erosion, and looking to do it 'above board'). 

So what is skiing?

For those who take the monthly streak (on real skis) seriously, I applaud and appreciate your effort and dedication.  What lit me up about TAYing was/is the understanding that it is indeed possible to do so in the PNW, but as some others here have recently expressed, there is more to many of our lives than living for the streak.  So, I (we) ski most months (missed July this year - and don't feel badly about it), and we now enjoy contemplating whether going skiing, in what used to be the 'off months', is what we'd rather do than something else.  The confession of a non-streaking streaker.

Boot turns?  Log 'em, or don't log 'em.   The great thing is you get to decide for yourself.  You pretty much can't do it in powder - wet corn on firm is best - get em when you can.

[edited to add] Remember how fun it was to slide down that patch just on your boots?  Not that easy, really, especially if you look to smoothly link turn after turn over a substantial run.  I've also made strap-on 'skis' of Delrin plastic, the length of my shoe, for those times when I've felt like approaching the speed of light...


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/08/10, 10:23 PM
    I was perplexed, or curious.  Clearly we TAYers have our own definitions and standards for skiing, for streaks, and for many other activities and values we have in our lives.  That is a good
thing (though we should minimize harm, respect others, blah blah).  Shaping and expressing our own selves is at the core of what appeals to me about being in the hills.
    My streak would be 2 years longer than it is if I hadn't blown off bad September turns for great fall rockclimbing.  It was the right choice, and so is my current unexceptional TAY streak.
    Dare ya to ride the N-Chutes with lunch trays strapped to your boots!  Some activites should never be in the Olympics....    ;)
    Oh, and to minimize the thread drift, why didn't Chris and partner hike the talus past the "big" patch to the V-shaped nano-patchlet at the base of the cliff in the last photo?  Would that have unacceptably increased the joy-o-meter?  And if they had boot-skied it instead of with planks, would it have been part of the calculation?  Inquiring minds want to know.    ;D


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/09/10, 09:14 AM
Quote from: telemack on 09/08/10, 10:23 PM
     ...
     Dare ya to ride the N-Chutes with lunch trays strapped to your boots!  Some activites should never be in the Olympics....     ;)   ...
   


If it's all the same with you, Mack, I'd rather see the St Pauli Girl, with her tray full of foaming beer steins, negotiate that terrain  ~  something along that line might actually make for a fun local event..


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: cascadesfreak on 09/09/10, 01:02 PM
Quote from: telemack on 09/08/10, 10:23 PM
    Would that have unacceptably increased the joy-o-meter?
  yes. ;)

Actually, on the approach I thought the nano-patchlet might be the only option for snow turns in the area, until the larger patch emerged into view after topping the last crest.  The 20 turns down the larger patch felt like a lot for September  ;D  No rock removal necessary, just added several more gouges to the bases of my already trashed old AT skis.
Considered side-stepping up the steep nano-patch for a couple turns, but the higher consequence factor of possibly falling on jagged rocks below made the larger patch more appealing.  I wouldn't have included boot turns into the JOM, but that's just me.  Also not included in the JOM was the extra vertical feet hiked after the patch ski to scramble up a nearby summit [might have counted it though had I packed my skis up to the summit  :)  ] 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: James Wells on 09/09/10, 02:37 PM
Quote from: cascadesfreak on 09/09/10, 01:02 PM
Also not included in the JOM was the extra vertical feet hiked after the patch ski to scramble up a nearby summit [might have counted it though had I packed my skis up to the summit  :)  ] 


That makes sense (as much as any TAY calculation can make sense).  Last weekend when Mack, Telemander, and I scrambled to the top of Coleman Pinnacle (no skis, obviously), Mack did not count that in the JOM number.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: Don_B on 09/09/10, 08:52 PM
I was gonna ask if the little tongue at the top would go, and am happy to know you actually were headed for it. Worthy objective, getting out like that, IMHO.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/09/10, 09:06 PM
Oh, that St. Pauli girl with her bulging bubbles!
If this micro-patch trend strengthens we'll have to carry skis, boots AND a bouldering mat.

Sorry about this one:

I've skied monthly for many good days
In sunshine and blizzards and haze
The girl from St. Pauli
Has followed my folly
And I love sliding on her snack trays!


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: bcglaxer on 09/09/10, 09:31 PM
I love it, but it raises an interesting question. This is pretty much the least amount of snow you could possibly ski to get your turns, but would it count if you got some turns on something other than snow? I was in Idaho this weekend and hiked up some pretty cool sand dunes and found myself wishing I had my skis. Do sand turns count?


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: Don Heath on 09/11/10, 08:56 AM
Quote from: bcglaxer on 09/09/10, 09:31 PM
Do sand turns count?


I'd say it counts, if you do it the right way  ;) You may have seen this before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKq2WGSrLc8

I bet you never need skins in Nambia!


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: GregLange on 09/11/10, 09:23 PM
Anyone know if this thing is still a semblance of it's former self? Is it on the way into Snow Lake? I may need to use it, as an expeditious way to get month 155 in...


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/12/10, 01:15 AM
Quote from: bcglaxer on 09/09/10, 09:31 PM
I love it, but it raises an interesting question. This is pretty much the least amount of snow you could possibly ski to get your turns, but would it count if you got some turns on something other than snow? I was in Idaho this weekend and hiked up some pretty cool sand dunes and found myself wishing I had my skis. Do sand turns count?

Yup


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/12/10, 08:08 PM
Quote from: telemack on 09/12/10, 01:15 AM
Yup


Well, Mack, and friends, I've been to Namibia, and I've skiied sand dunes (not there), and while it's a blast, I think the criteria (for TAYing) has to include being on snow (otherwise skateboarding, land-luge, etc.  could count).  However, must it include strapping on or standing on something between you and the snow?  Really?  Is there a minimum size?  While we appreciate the effort to get turns, streak qualification isn't determined by the nature of the denominator of the JOM  (ie. the up).  Kind of hate to harp on it (well, not really), but I think that any controlled, gliding, descent, with changes of direction, on snow, is the minimum and absolute criteria.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: telemack on 09/13/10, 10:19 PM
This TR morphed into a RT, so thanks Kneel for starting a new clean thread.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/14/10, 11:13 AM
Agreed.  Thanks Mack - and Kneel.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: randerson on 09/15/10, 01:22 PM
BCFC debated the concept of what a turn all year is this week at Ptarmigan. We have some theories and some disagreement.

2/3 of the group says sand is out and only 1/3 thinks it counts. To some agreements:

1) Gravity fed movement (that makes in a downhill sport). Note this is a gravity pulling you in toward the earth, Newton Apple kind of gravity. The moon's gravitation inducing waves, which technically you could ski (I think they call it surfing), is therefore OUT. 

2) Major movement mechanism is sliding not rolling (why I think sand is in)
This knocks out skateboards and other sports like it. No Wheels (unless the brakes are locked out and you make go to point number 3).

3) Can you turn on it? Glue your feet to some lunch trays and turn and you've got your first supporter right here.

4) Boot turns are tricky. It meets all of the other criteria. Is there a de facto 'gentlemans' rule about this? Perhaps you should have to carry bricks equal to your ski wait ha. I like the inherent ambiguity. Turn your own turn!

5) Not sure about length/vert. It seems requirement #3 takes care of length of snow patch. I would hate to lose my streak because of an awful winter followed by a deathly hot summer leaving only 20 ft of snow, so for streak conservation in the face of global climate change, I think length shouldn't matter as long as the joy meter cracks 0. You've earned it then.


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: davidG on 09/15/10, 03:20 PM
Hey, Ron, how about moving randerson's most illuminating post to the recent TAY definition thread ~ we would not want to lose track of such gravitas..  like, he even got Newton spelled right, and everything..

Randerson, as to your point #4, yes, a gentleman's agreement has been achieved after lengthy negotiations.  Please see Kneel Turners 'TAY' thread on the main page.



Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: savegondor on 09/22/10, 02:43 PM
Quote from: randerson on 09/15/10, 01:22 PM
BCFC debated the concept of what a turn all year is this week at Ptarmigan. We have some theories and some disagreement.

2/3 of the group says sand is out and only 1/3 thinks it counts. To some agreements:

1) Gravity fed movement (that makes in a downhill sport). Note this is a gravity pulling you in toward the earth, Newton Apple kind of gravity. The moon's gravitation inducing waves, which technically you could ski (I think they call it surfing), is therefore OUT. 

2) Major movement mechanism is sliding not rolling (why I think sand is in)
This knocks out skateboards and other sports like it. No Wheels (unless the brakes are locked out and you make go to point number 3).

3) Can you turn on it? Glue your feet to some lunch trays and turn and you've got your first supporter right here.

4) Boot turns are tricky. It meets all of the other criteria. Is there a de facto 'gentlemans' rule about this? Perhaps you should have to carry bricks equal to your ski wait ha. I like the inherent ambiguity. Turn your own turn!

5) Not sure about length/vert. It seems requirement #3 takes care of length of snow patch. I would hate to lose my streak because of an awful winter followed by a deathly hot summer leaving only 20 ft of snow, so for streak conservation in the face of global climate change, I think length shouldn't matter as long as the joy meter cracks 0. You've earned it then.


This is hilarious.

1) First of all the argument about waves is all kinds of crazy bogus.  when you surf you are pointing that sucker right down the 'fall line' and your board, skis, kayak whatever, are in in fact 'sliding on water' which is precisely what occurs on snow some of the time.  Not that skiing is always about sliding as deep powder involves a good number of other dynamics as well.  And need I point out that the moon is only one factor in both waves and the precip we call snow.  The earth's rotation, wind, and a host of other wave and particle physics are involved. 

But all these points are moot since this is a popular forum and the population has not been considering a host of other 'gravity sports' to count towards 'turns all year'.  i.e. rafting, kayaking, biking all of which involve a relationship with 'friction' and 'sliding'. 

2) i think everyone is going to agree on point 2

3) my fat skis are getting toward the size of lunch trays in my opinion... and what about 'free boarding' or kayaking on snow?  all of these parties turn on snow with many of the same bio-mechanics as traditional skiers and boarders.

4) boot turns?  no because there is another name for that: glissading.

5) for my part VERT should most definitely count.  And I'll allow tagging that 20 foot patch at least  50 times.  To me 1k vert is a bare minimum to cal lit a trip in my version of the TAY category.  And please, that snow argument is crap.  I could get 1k in Montana right now and there is far less snow.  We've got volcano's a plenty and what is more it actually wasn't all that crappy of a snow year.  By late spring areas around snowqualmie were 75-100% of normal.  The Olympics came in over 150% and Mission Ridge was above normal as well.  That is a pretty normal 'patch' on snoqualmie for this time of year. 

LASTLY:  I think it would be fun to debate and possibly establish some formal rules for what counts...and we could set the bar low....say at least 250 continuous vert a month...and establish acceptable surfaces and instruments.  If there was a way to measure vert on a wave I'd vote for surfing for sure.  I also think beauty should be a category and so should 'hard-core' factor in.  i.e. hiking up Mt. Rose in August for 100 vert.  in such a case 'hard-core' would trump the vert requirement. 

And do you have to 'earn your turn?'  humm....  does skiing on plastic count? 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: savegondor on 09/22/10, 02:45 PM
oh and: Ski-blades = Fail


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: Nate R on 09/24/10, 04:55 PM
Quote from: telemack on 09/04/10, 10:31 AM
So, if you only ski uphill, do you get a total of negative v.f. and still count it for a month? 


Using that logic, wouldn't all our backcountry days result in total v.f. of zero?    ???

Until the governing body that monitors feats of turns-all-year issues a position on what qualifies as a turn, or someone can produce some qualitative historical context, all we have left to go on is the name, and the definition of "turns" does not imply any kind of restriction on means or medium.  The only way to solve this on our own is to either come up with another moniker, or consent to the fact that turns can mean anything, even if it's in your car or on a train (or with a fox or in the rain).  Therefore I propose that we change the name of the site (and the accomplishment) to Downhill-Gravity-Propelled-Turns-On-Snow-With-Ptex-Based-Foot-Attachments-All-Year, or D-G-P-T-O-S-W-P-B-F-A-A-Y. 


Title: Re: Sept. 3, 2010, Snoqualmie Patch
Post by: Marcus on 09/24/10, 05:14 PM
Quote:
even if it's in your car or on a train (or with a fox or in the rain)


Someone is warming up their Dr. Seuss brain muscles.

I'll take the name change under consideration... :)


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