How do you describe telemarking?

Telemark turns--you ski like a girl!  Skiing Like a Girl!

I was lift skiing at Vail about 5 years ago with a friend and we were both telemarking. While waiting to get on the lift, my friend mentioned his knee was starting to bother him. The guy behind us heard the comment and decided to chime in, "That's why I don't telemark heh heh heh." We looked at his smart arse grin, kind of confused, and got on the chair, shrugging it off. Shortly after loading, the lift slowed down. We turned around and saw guy had fallen while getting on the next chair. HAHAHAH, we laughed the entire ride up!

For the most part, I only tele in pow these days and transition to AT when corn season arrives mostly because ski crampons for Dynafit are much nicer when the surface is still frozen in the morning. I would describe telemark as a dance that feels elegant, graceful, smooth, and very satisfying as demonstrated by the following photo:

Especially for Lowell .... Deconstructing and Reconstructing Varieties of the Telemark Turn

That's a nice demonstration video. My only complaint is that it was shot entirely on a groomed slope. So we never get to see the skier turning in soft, natural snow. He doesn't really need to carve a turn. There's a lot of skidding in the video.

The desire to ski natural snow on light, 70mm(-ish) skis is what drove the telemark renaissance in the 1980s and 1990s. Most people have forgotten how hard it is to ski natural snow on old-school equipment. It has been made simple by fat skis. Today we don't ski in the snow as much as we ski on top of it. Need to check your speed or avoid an obstacle? Just pivot and smear.

It didn't used to be that way. Alpine skiing in the backcountry used to be hard. That's why telemarking was popular.

Easy to say.  Typical "big boy" AT: Marker Duke, 4-Buckle Cochise boot, and 120 mm waist ski = 20+ lbs.
                    Old school "big boy" tele: 3-pin or 3-pin cable,  brown Karhu Outbound (90-70-890), & Super comps = <<20 lbs.
                    New school "big boy" tele probably still less the the big boy AT.

light weight option:  3-pin vs Dynafit, 3 pin is less;  Cho Oyu, the same; boot TLT6 vs Old 3 buckle blue T-2s, 6s win.  Overal weight the same.

I skied NNN, NNN-BC,  SNS-BC, 3 pins, 3-pin cables, 3-pin hardwires, Riva cables, beta tester for Hammerheads, 7tm releaseables, used the oil voile releaseables with 3-pin cables, ultimate telemark binding, and the free pivot hardwires and always came back to 3-pins  ;D  but now I use Dynafit speeds on XCountry ski patrol!

But you are right: no release on a 3 pin (but maybe less danger of massive damage to MCL, tib-fib, ACL etc. cuz the pins on AT don't release--have to release from the heel.  Still safer, much less likely to fall for sure.  And the big deal to me is on the up: no weight on the heel, no flexing of the boot bellows, free pivot--AT rules.

Been skiing the similar range -- but some of those comparisons are apples to oranges. On a comparable setup - fat skis with the bindings and boot to drive it AT comes way ahead on weight. Folks skiing the same ski as me (tele 4 buckle) but with Dynafit speeds were at least 4 lbs lighter -

...
The desire to ski natural snow on light, 70mm(-ish) skis is what drove the telemark renaissance in the 1980s and 1990s. Most people have forgotten how hard it is to ski natural snow on old-school equipment. It has been made simple by fat skis. Today we don't ski in the snow as much as we ski on top of it. Need to check your speed or avoid an obstacle? Just pivot and smear.

It didn't used to be that way. Alpine skiing in the backcountry used to be hard. That's why telemarking was popular.

I was so happy when Regine and I got to move from 60ish mm waist skis to 70 mm! Them was fat! My were Tua Excaliburs, hers were Kneissel Tourstar Ultras (carbon and Kevlar) both with Rainey superloops.

#TelemarkTurnsMatter

AT is to Boxing as Telemark is to Tai Chi
With AT (and Alpine) skiing you beat your way down the mountain.
With Telemark skiing you flow with the terrain to descend.

I have done both for over 40 years and prefer Telemark unless I need to beat the mountain up for some reason.

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=34677.0;id=21707;image

The dude taking a rest in the lower right seems to be sporting Silverettas.
Aside from that, this hating on telemark seems to be akin to the tired Windows/Apple or Ford/Chevy type of arguments.
As others have said, if your having fun, what does it matter what toys you're playing with?

To each their own.

Haha, good eye, found that on the internet and posted for fun and a joke! People on here are soooo sensitive! "Haters" and all that.... Here is a picture of ME telemarking!! Take a chill pill doods!! I agree, it doesn't matter what you use... only Michael cares...

I always thought tele, in nice powder, was more akin to a swooping, leaning bicycle turn, versus alpine feels like training wheels.

HOWEVER - I freely confess two things:
- I am a crappy skier, both tele and alpine
- I now have dynafits, for the weight reduction, and will probably not don my teles very much except on powder days and shorter climbs.

I was so happy when Regine and I got to move from 60ish mm waist skis to 70 mm!  Them was fat!  My were Tua Excaliburs, hers were Kneissel Tourstar Ultras (carbon and Kevlar) both with Rainey superloops.

Superloops - almost forgot about those! Old skool! But I was happy to have 'em

Here's a very little known fact: Silas is a secret telemarker, which explains why he's keeping quiet in this thread.

In fact, Silas has been conducting his own cutting-edge, hi-tech R&D on a revolutionary new tele binding system, which is nearly ready for field testing (in secret, of course).

The attached photo, from an unnamed and probably NDA-violating source, provides the world's first look at the revolutionary design of this new binding. The binding's OS is said to be based on the Mac iOS and to provide not only real-time adjustment of tension, based on instantaneous analysis of the snow conditions directly underfoot, but also real-time deep snowpack analysis of possible avalanche layers directly underfoot and to have full iPhone functionality built in, including hands-free calling while doing turns.

Can your so yesterday AT rig do all of that??

Please remember: you did not hear this from me.

SOUNDS GREAT!!!!!! Does it also make it snow blower powder?

Here's a very little known fact: Silas is a secret telemarker, which explains why he's keeping quiet in this thread.

In fact, Silas has been conducting his own cutting-edge, hi-tech R&D on a revolutionary new tele binding system, which is nearly ready for field testing (in secret, of course).

The attached photo, from an unnamed and probably NDA-violating source, provides the world's first look at the revolutionary design of this new binding. The binding's OS is said to be based on the Mac iOS and to provide not only real-time adjustment of tension, based on instantaneous analysis of the snow conditions directly underfoot, but also real-time deep snowpack analysis of possible avalanche layers directly underfoot and to have full iPhone functionality built in, including hands-free calling while doing turns.

Can your so yesterday AT rig do all of that??

Please remember: you did not hear this from me.

I'm tempted to get a 3 pin setup for the novelty. I'd still be faster than the knuckle draggers.

Superloops - almost forgot about those!  Old skool!   But I was happy to have 'em

Telemark opened up a world of terrain and possibilities for me back in the early 80? Robbie Fuller, an AAI instructor blew me away gracefully linking tele turns down a powder filled bowl near Teton Pass with Europa 99s and pins. 

Lighten up!

It's a turn, not a religion.

I started downhill skiing on nordic skis after my right tibia was shattered, from knee to ankle, by an AK-47 round in Vietnam in 1968.  After many months in heavy plaster casts, I was told that if I ever broke my right tibia again, it would mean amputation (which was threatened all during the many months after the original Tet Offensive wound).  I spent a lot of time researching, in very old books of course, how to ski downhill on nordic skis, and did so, in New England in the late sixties, and then in the Canadian Rockies in the early seventies.  When I took lifts up to summits in the Canadian Rockies, it was not unusual for a ski patrol person to jump on the chair with me, to make sure I got down in one piece--which I did, via stem christies, in three-pin bindings.

And then I met up with Steve Barnett and John Fuller and others, here in Seattle in the 1970's, as the telemark turn made a revival.  I remember Steve asking me if I'd teach him nordic if he taught me telemark--which I also began researching telemark turns in very old books in the UW Libraries, where I was working.  It was also how I got the name Pierre Nordique, since I was definitely far more nordic than downhill.  When my wife took up downhill skiing, we took downhill lessons at Hyak and I was creeped out by stiff plastic downhill boots--what a great way to fracture a tibia, I thought, with yet another chance of amputation.  I went on to competing in telemark slalom competitions in Washington and British Columbia, against lots of far younger skiers, many of whom wore name tags as ski school directors.

Maybe this season I'll get out my old leather tele boots and old tele skis--and give it another try.  I REALLY miss it!  My brother in Michigan sent me his old plastic tele boots and I set up some short downhill skis and tele bindings, years ago, but one try at Ski Acres creeped me out--those tall plastic boots and heavy skis and bindings could put me back in amputation threat!

Like a lot of old skier/hikers, it comes down, sometimes, to giving up skiing (to avoid injuries) in order to continue hiking.   Tomorrow will be my 113th hike this year, with 655 miles of hiking so far this year, and over 197,000 feet of vertical gain, plus 112 rock climbing days--and today is my 72nd birthday!  And all on one very old right leg, knee (replaced in 2006) and right ankle (replaced last year)!

Wow, Nordique, way to set the bar for making lemonade out of lemons! You may be at less risk than you think; I looked at all the abstracts for all relevant articles on PubMed and there is no mention of tibial fractures - and a protective effect from plastic boots. In terms of mechanism of injury, if you BC tele ski soft snow and don't huck jumps and go at blazing speed, you should be safe. All the reports looked like this:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10628283

Happy Birthday!

... You may be at less risk than you think; I looked at all the abstracts for all relevant articles on PubMed and there is no mention of tibial fractures - and a protective effect from plastic boots.  In terms of mechanism of injury, if you BC tele ski soft snow and don't huck jumps and go at blazing speed, you should be safe.  All the reports looked like this:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10628283

Happy Birthday!

Thanks for the link!

The comments by Rick Howell in this Wildsnow report are worth reading Comments on risk of tibial fractures ; Rick Howell is one of the world's leading experts on ski bindings relative to ski injuries.

There are serious risks to tibial injuries with both AT and Alpine bindings.  I had one on Easter when skiing down to the main lodge at White Pass in shallow snow I hit a rock under the snow and had a twisting fall that sprained my MCL, my tib-fib joint and peroneal insertion, the peroneal tendon in the ankle and my forefoot.  The binding did not release as would be expected from where the side of the ski hit the rock as I was completing the turn (the evidence was in the dinged edge and groove in the ptex which also recorded the twisting fall--and it was the twisting that did the damage). I was skiing relatively slowly on Volkl Nanuqs with Radical STs but the same thing could have happened with my alpine gear.  It all hinges on where the side impact hits--forward and its the tib-fib, rearward other injuries; only the Knee binding (developed by Howell) provides protection to the knee-lower leg complex thru toe, heel, and upward release. 

I do believe tele skiing with 3 pins and a boot that is not locked in a forward lean on firm snow or soft snow (but not on breakable crust) at reasonable speeds with a tight stance (wide stance may lead to catching an edge) is relatively safe. I had no leg injuries skiing tele; I've had a half a dozen fixed heel (moguls, breakable crust, rock). I did have a friend who had a twisting fall in tele gear in deep powder in a gulley that resulted in a nice spiral fracture of the tibia or fibula (can't remember which or the details); she had to be airlifted out of the backcountry.

Like a lot of old skier/hikers, it comes down, sometimes, to giving up skiing (to avoid injuries) in order to continue hiking.   Tomorrow will be my 113th hike this year, with 655 miles of hiking so far this year, and over 197,000 feet of vertical gain, plus 112 rock climbing days--and today is my 72nd birthday!  And all on one very old right leg, knee (replaced in 2006) and right ankle (replaced last year)!

Congrats! Nice going with the hiking! I'm just a bit younger than you and I'm taking it real careful skiing this year after several injuries last year and the year before. I'm not ready to give up skiing yet but might be with one more setback. Time (and physical therapy) required to heal even moderate-severe sprains seems to be getter longer and longer with age and reverberations from one injury throughout the locomotive complex seem to be increasing. Most likely a result of reduced elasticity and increased osteoarthritis that accompany aging.

Telemark = Skiing in the mountains!
Alpine = Skiing in the mountains!

And BTW.  My Tele set up is lighter than your AT set up 

Oh, and Telemark is my religion.

Nice, Dan.

How about this?

Alpine skiing = Ferrari
Telemark skiing = Ducati

Bruce

p.s. Skate skiing = Pinarello

Bruce.

Skate skiing = skiing in the mountains with tight pants!!!

;D

I'm new to dynafits, so maybe this will cause thread drift - and I'm sure I could look it up, but due to laziness I'll ask here:

How do dynafits release? How easy are they to adjust? What sort of falls do they release from?

Ok, So here's how I think about skiing:

Tele = Disco
Alpine = Rock
Nordic = Acoustic

Specifically, Disco with tight pants.

NORDIQUE....THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!

Specific to skiing powder...
I used to describe the sensation of teleing in deep snow on good pitch to what I imagine walking on the moon would feel like.

Giant steps are what you take
Walking on the moon
I hope my legs don't break
Walking on the moon
We could walk forever
Walking on the moon
We could live together
Walking on, walking on the moon

Walking on the moon
The Police

Think these folks have figured it out pretty well...

The video is Powder Sensations...

^^^^^

Yup,

Disco!